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View Poll Results: Where does Klay rank among the best players in the league?

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  • Top 10

    1 3.45%
  • 11-15

    4 13.79%
  • 16-20

    11 37.93%
  • 21-25

    8 27.59%
  • 26+

    5 17.24%
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  1. #76
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    Both Tyreke Evans and Lou Williams have had better years than Klay, yet they're barely being talked about and he'll somehow make the all-star team over them. Now, that obviously has a lot to do with the fact that the Warriors are the best team in the league and they get a lot more prime time games than Clippers or Grizzlies.

    Yes, he's overrated. He's a very good player, and a big factor to their success, however, he is NOT a top 5 SG in this league.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    The average fan only remembers specific about super-stars. Everyone else's legacy and story fades with time.
    In this case there is a specific thing (going to GS) people will remember for Kd then is what you are saying? sure. I get things fade with time but this isn't something that won't be remembered is the point.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddletramp View Post
    I'm the one that keeps bringing it up? No one was talking about KD/Lebron and you posted:




    You just can't stop comparing the two. But have fun trying to keep equating the two.

    Oh, and people weren't saying the same stuff about Lebron and KD on the same level.
    I posted in response to someone bringing up kd, along with curry klay and green.
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  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    It is like Miami in the sense that people thought LeBron somehow shut the door on himself in the jordan argument, yet over time that was clearly not the case. Kd seems to be on the same track in the sense that if he stays crushing how he has, people will recognize that greatness.

    Yes, he didn't get as much credit as other players, that's natural, same way dirk got extra credit for doing it with a relatively weak cast. But that doesn't automatically disqualify him from anything, we just have to see how it plays out
    I mean anyone who said that just wasn't thinking then? I dunno what you want me to say but not everyone was being that ridiculous and it doesn't apply to a far different situation. I agree it isn't the end for ?KD but it takes either a major hit/injury to Currys career or a change of scenery etc. type of change for us to really see anything other than a great player setting himself up in the goat situation ever.

    We have to see how it plays out but this is another year where he isn't the best player on his team and statistically is having a pretty weak season compared to normal. Until he is playing on a team that truly needs him to be great and carry a team to win a title and faces tough adversity we won't even see close to the same situation as Lebron in Miami tbh. That needs to happen first and it seems unlikely given the gap he created in the league

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by zn23 View Post
    Both Tyreke Evans and Lou Williams have had better years than Klay, yet they're barely being talked about and he'll somehow make the all-star team over them. Now, that obviously has a lot to do with the fact that the Warriors are the best team in the league and they get a lot more prime time games than Clippers or Grizzlies.

    Yes, he's overrated. He's a very good player, and a big factor to their success, however, he is NOT a top 5 SG in this league.
    Both those guys are playing very well, and there is certainly a case to be made that they are having better individual sasons than Klay, but they are both on teams that haven't been playing consistently. In the case of the Grizzlies, they haven't been playing well at all. In the case of the Clippers, they played poorly from game five up until about 13 games ago. Their improve has been in large part due to Lou Williams play.

    However, reserve All-Star appearances generally go to guys who 1) are estalished all-stars, and 2) are on winning teams. Klay has maintained a level of excellence and consistency that neither Evans nor Williams have displayed throughout their respective careers. Evans is averaging less than 20 a game, and this is his highest total since his rookie season. I've always been a fan, but I've also seen him as a guy who, largely due to circumstances, have never reached his potential. Maybe he finally is. Lou Williams. Is 31. This is likely going to be his fnest season.

    I'm fine with a person making a case that either is having better individual season than Klay this year, but Klay is still having an amazing season, is nearly as well as Evans and better than Williams, is shoot 3's at a better rate than either, and is arguably a better defender than either. They both get more assists, but they are both on teams that require them to handle the ball more and don't share it with guys as good as Curry, let alone a team with Curry, KD, and Green.

    Klay has sustained excellence, and is on an amazing team. You might argue that this season those guys are having better individual years, but are their teams having better seasons? And are they contributing more to their team's 'winning'? Which is, after all, the goal? Are they having better careers? And are their seasons really quantifiably better? Or is their a case for Klay? In which case, as subjective as it might be, and perhaps as unfair as it might be, his team's winning and consistent level of play, will be a factors for coaches selecting all-star reserves.

    You might say Klay is not a top-five SG this year, but are there 5 shooting guards in the last who have had better careers than Klay? Who have played consistently and clearly better every year?
    Why did the chicken cross the basketball court?
    Because he heard the refs were blowing fowls.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    In this case there is a specific thing (going to GS) people will remember for Kd then is what you are saying? sure. I get things fade with time but this isn't something that won't be remembered is the point.
    Casual fans will remember that he played for 2 teams, the anger some people feel will go away for the majority.

  7. #82
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    One could easily argue that Andre Roberson has contributed more to his team winning than Klay has. We don't have a great way of measuring individual defense and fans wildly over-value offense over defense (see Lou Williams over Klay).

    Klay is maybe a little over-rated this year ... but he's still a very good SG among a weak group of SGs.

  8. #83
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    He has 2 seasons in the top ten for most 3pters made, 3 in the top 20. He is 11th all-time all-time career 3pt%, and is top ten hen you disclude players whose percentages got bumped up when the NBA brought the line in for 2 years, and NONE of the guys ahead of him with the lone exceptions of Steph Curry, has taken more 3's per game than him.

    He is historically one of the best shooters of all time.

    And is regarded as one of the best defenders of all time.

    And yet, he has never made the All-NBA first or second team, only made the All-NBA thrid team twice, and hs NEVER made an All-Defensive team.

    According to the poll here, nobody even puts him in the top ten of current players.

    So... 'the most overrated player in the league'? No. Even if you suggest he is overrated, he's certainly not the most overrated. Ray Allen put up less impressive shooting numbers, and played less impressive defense, and is generally regarded as one of the greatest SGs of all time; Klay doesn't even sniff the conversation and in many ways is better than Allen with respect to the things that Allen is regarded as great for doing. Allen got more boards and assists, but he didn't have to share the ball with the likes of Curry AND KD, AND Green until he got to Boston, at which time his rebounding and assist numbers were reduced to less than what Klay is doing with the Warriors.

    I'm not saying Klay is better than Ray, but he his performance is certainly comprable and people seldom even make the suggestion of ranking him ahead of Ray, so I don't see how Klay is overrated.


    I mean, we are talking about a SG who won and NBA title last year, while playing elite defense, posting 22+ a game, shooting over .400 from the arc, and who didn't even make an All-NBA team. I'm not sure how we frame that as being 'overrated'.

    I mean... people in this thread are arguing that a guy who posts number comparable to Ray Allen isn't even a top-five SG in the league. People are suggesting he's not even a top-20 or even 26 player in this league. A guy who is recognized as an elite defender and who is shooting at an historically high percentage and volume, and people don't even feel comfortable putting him in the top 20?

    I think you could actually change the title of this to 'underrated' and it would be a more interesting conversation.
    Last edited by JasonJohnHorn; 01-14-2018 at 01:37 PM.
    Why did the chicken cross the basketball court?
    Because he heard the refs were blowing fowls.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    In this case there is a specific thing (going to GS) people will remember for Kd then is what you are saying? sure. I get things fade with time but this isn't something that won't be remembered is the point.
    Casual fans will remember that he played for 2 teams, the anger some people feel will go away for the majority.
    I mean I think anyone who follows basketball and talks about it regularly will remember. Sure people who are going overboard and truly hate him might change their stance though. I think there are plenty of "casual fans" that became Warriors fans recently and sure people like that won't care but not sure why I care about what people who don't talk or follow much bball outside of the finals etc think on bball

    People who care even a little about the game aren't just gonna completely forget the team he joined set the wins record and won a title the year before or the major gap in the league created though and much of this shows up on any brief look at say a bball reference even.

    I think many people who like Durant just hope people will forgot how weak his move was and what it did to the league. To this day people still talk about wilts selfishness on here in comparisons despite many not even watching him live. This is far easier to see and remember.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    I mean I think anyone who follows basketball and talks about it regularly will remember. Sure people who are going overboard and truly hate him might change their stance though. I think there are plenty of "casual fans" that became Warriors fans recently and sure people like that won't care but not sure why I care about what people who don't talk or follow much bball outside of the finals etc think on bball

    People who care even a little about the game aren't just gonna completely forget the team he joined set the wins record and won a title the year before or the major gap in the league created though and much of this shows up on any brief look at say a bball reference even.

    I think many people who like Durant just hope people will forgot how weak his move was and what it did to the league. To this day people still talk about wilts selfishness on here in comparisons despite many not even watching him live. This is far easier to see and remember.
    Easier to remember, easier to forgive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiecballer View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    I mean I think anyone who follows basketball and talks about it regularly will remember. Sure people who are going overboard and truly hate him might change their stance though. I think there are plenty of "casual fans" that became Warriors fans recently and sure people like that won't care but not sure why I care about what people who don't talk or follow much bball outside of the finals etc think on bball

    People who care even a little about the game aren't just gonna completely forget the team he joined set the wins record and won a title the year before or the major gap in the league created though and much of this shows up on any brief look at say a bball reference even.

    I think many people who like Durant just hope people will forgot how weak his move was and what it did to the league. To this day people still talk about wilts selfishness on here in comparisons despite many not even watching him live. This is far easier to see and remember.
    Easier to remember, easier to forgive.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J120A using Tapatalk
    People just won't really care about him anymore. When it comes to basketball discussions people won't just forget his move though either. I agree the hate will die down overall though as him and this team fade away but it doesn't mean people will just forget either.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonJohnHorn View Post
    He has 20 seasons in the top ten for most 3pters made, 3 in the top 20. He is 11th all-time all-time career 3pt%, and is top ten hen you disclude players whose percentages got bumped up when the NBA brought the line in for 2 years, and NONE of the guys ahead of him with the lone exceptions of Steph Curry, has taken more 3's per game than him.

    He is historically one of the best shooters of all time.
    Did you read my post? I give him a ton of credit for this. He's practically a lock to go down as one of the five best shooters in NBA history. But one elite skill does not make you a top 10-15 player in the league.

    And is regarded as one of the best defenders of all time.
    Nobody thinks this. If you think this, then you're helping prove my point.

    And yet, he has never made the All-NBA first or second team, only made the All-NBA thrid team twice, and hs NEVER made an All-Defensive team.
    For good reasons. Those voters got it right.

    According to the poll here, nobody even puts him in the top ten of current players.
    I can assure you that multiple posters on PSD in the last week have ranked him in the top 10, and others (yourself included) have ranked him in the top 15, which is still way too high. Those same posters may not be voting in this poll, and there is a noticeable lack of Warriors fans in the poll, but I assure you those people are out there.

    So... 'the most overrated player in the league'? No. Even if you suggest he is overrated, he's certainly not the most overrated. Ray Allen put up less impressive shooting numbers, and played less impressive defense, and is generally regarded as one of the greatest SGs of all time; Klay doesn't even sniff the conversation and in many ways is better than Allen with respect to the things that Allen is regarded as great for doing. Allen got more boards and assists, but he didn't have to share the ball with the likes of Curry AND KD, AND Green until he got to Boston, at which time his rebounding and assist numbers were reduced to less than what Klay is doing with the Warriors.

    I'm not saying Klay is better than Ray, but he his performance is certainly comprable and people seldom even make the suggestion of ranking him ahead of Ray, so I don't see how Klay is overrated.
    So Allen is actually a really good comparison to Klay. Although Allen's peak and prime numbers are clearly better and he was a 22/4/4 guy for eight straight seasons, overall they're not too far from each other statistically. That being said, in his entire career, he only made two All-NBA teams in his career, and he was probably never a top 10 guy in the league, and rarely was he top 15. The best case he would have would have been those last two seasons in Seattle when he was putting up 25-26 a night, something Klay has never done.

    That being said, Allen separates himself from Klay with his postseason resume later in his career. The man hit killer shot after killer shot in the playoffs, which cemented his legacy as a top 100 all-time player, and arguably top 50. Klay, on the other hand, has been pretty horrific for the most part in the postseason. He's had his moments, like the OKC series a couple of years ago, but those are few and far between.

    So if Allen was never really a consistent top 10-15 guy, why should Klay be one?

    I mean, we are talking about a SG who won and NBA title last year, while playing elite defense, posting 22+ a game, shooting over .400 from the arc, and who didn't even make an All-NBA team. I'm not sure how we frame that as being 'overrated'.
    Winning a title doesn't make you a top 15 player. There are a lot of guys on that Warriors team who won a title who aren't top 15 players. And I framed him as being overrated based on the multitude of fans on this site (again, yourself included) who seem to consider him a top 15 guy and some of the analysts I've seen do the same.

    I mean... people in this thread are arguing that a guy who posts number comparable to Ray Allen isn't even a top-five SG in the league. People are suggesting he's not even a top-20 or even 26 player in this league. A guy who is recognized as an elite defender and who is shooting at an historically high percentage and volume, and people don't even feel comfortable putting him in the top 20?

    I think you could actually change the title of this to 'underrated' and it would be a more interesting conversation.
    I don't think he's top 20, and I think I've provided the evidence to back that up. I was pretty thorough. So if you think you can prove otherwise, I'd love to see some legitimate evidence. The posters suggesting he's borderline top 20 are right in the wheelhouse for where he should be, IMO. So they're hardly overrating him.

    Now I would disagree the posters saying he's not even a top 5 SG. I think he's 4th or 5th. He's clearly behind Harden, Butler and DeRozan for me. And I'd say he's right there with Oladipo, who's just having a much better season than him right now, but hasn't been remotely as consistent as Klay throughout his career. I'd give him the nod over McCollum, Beal and Lou Will for sure, though.

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    Houston may make the WCF again, but barring injuries they are no longer a serious threat this year imo.

  13. #88
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    Hes def over rated. He essentially a 3&D guy.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by BKLYNpigeon View Post
    Klay is not your alpha type player.

    doesn't really have the quickness or handles to separate, but he's the best 3 and D guy at the SG position. Second best shooter in NBA History, what more can you ask for?

    Great Teammate, low maintenance, works hard, and never really misses games.
    This sums it up frankly. These attributes make him the ultimate championship winning chess piece. Klay is quietly flirting with a >20 ppg 50/40/90 season btw. Something that has been done just 5 times by 4 players: Larry Bird, Dirk, KD and Curry. KD and Curry are also in range of it this season. Boom biscuit.

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    People just won't really care about him anymore. When it comes to basketball discussions people won't just forget his move though either. I agree the hate will die down overall though as him and this team fade away but it doesn't mean people will just forget either.
    Time tends to bring perspective. I think many who hold it against him will mellow

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    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

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