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  1. #1756
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpecialFNK View Post
    I don't know what discussions you're following, but seriously broaden this if you think nobody is talking about the wall anymore. the discussion continues to be about the wall/fence (or whatever people want to call it) along with the reason for the wall which is illegal immigration.
    ]
    You are heavily influenced by facades. The wall is a facade. The real discussion taking place here is wether we want to make America white again.

    Almost everyone agrees that illegal immigration should be reduced. Almost everyone agrees that our government should actively try and quell illegal immigration. Almost everyone understands illegal immigration has been trending down.

    If that's the case, then why such stark opposition on this topic?

    Look thru the facade and you will see this isn't even actually an immigration debate, it's a mawa debate. I would say vast majority of media manufactured debates are of this same formula. Facades.

    You yourself said they're playing politics. If you understand that, then you should understand what it is I am saying here.

  2. #1757
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    You are heavily influenced by facades. The wall is a facade. The real discussion taking place here is wether we want to make America white again.

    Almost everyone agrees that illegal immigration should be reduced. Almost everyone agrees that our government should actively try and quell illegal immigration. Almost everyone understands illegal immigration has been trending down.

    If that's the case, then why such stark opposition on this topic?

    Look thru the facade and you will see this isn't even actually an immigration debate, it's a mawa debate. I would say vast majority of media manufactured debates are of this same formula. Facades.

    You yourself said they're playing politics. If you understand that, then you should understand what it is I am saying here.
    I don't think the majority of the immigration debate is about "making america white again"

  3. #1758
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    I don't think the majority of the immigration debate is about "making america white again"
    The majority, I don't know. But ask yourself why we are talking about building a wall to solve our immigration problems when the majority of new illegal immigrants are because white people from Europe are overstaying their visas rather than people coming from Central or South America.
    Let's get embedded tweets working again!

    https://forums.prosportsdaily.com/sh...5#post33780085

  4. #1759
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    I don't think the majority of the immigration debate is about "making america white again"
    Oh I definitely do. We are way past actual immigration issues, it's effect on the country, and how to solve them. Our govt is actually shut down over this, there's major layoffs going on at Yosemite and other parks in California, while businesses are at a halt there.

    At this point its just a pro trump anti trump thing. Either you back the guy up or you oppose him, and that's where the convo is and will most probably remain until we get another president.

  5. #1760
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    The majority, I don't know. But ask yourself why we are talking about building a wall to solve our immigration problems when the majority of new illegal immigrants are because white people from Europe are overstaying their visas rather than people coming from Central or South America.
    I didn't mean to imply race was no part of it. I pass for white and I can see it around me. But I think the majority of it is fear mongering about things other than race.

    I honestly don't know so this isn't any kind of back handed accusation, but do you have any support for your assertion that the largest racial group of illegals are Caucasian?

  6. #1761
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    Oh I definitely do. We are way past actual immigration issues, it's effect on the country, and how to solve them. Our govt is actually shut down over this, there's major layoffs going on at Yosemite and other parks in California, while businesses are at a halt there.

    At this point its just a pro trump anti trump thing. Either you back the guy up or you oppose him, and that's where the convo is and will most probably remain until we get another president.
    I get all that, but that doesn't make it a white supremacy issue (even if Trump is a racist).

    And I know plenty of people who are against Trump but for a strong border.
    Last edited by Scoots; 01-15-2019 at 11:06 PM. Reason: typo

  7. #1762
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    I get all that, but that doesn't make it a white supremacy issue (even if Trump is a racist).

    And I know plenty of people who are against Trump but for a strong border.
    I wouldn't say a white supremacy issue. Just that I believe the rhetoric has dominated the actual issue in this case. Maybe not on the surface, but I do believe it is there at the core. On both sides. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy there are people siding against trumps divisive rhetoric, that's something which personally helps me, but both sides are kinda entrenched in it. I am, myself, too. I just oppose it, he came at this whole thing from too sideways a manner from the jump, I ain't with it. **** him, lol

    Kinda like the Muslim ban. Even if he modified it to contain less countries, dude already showed his hand, I already know where he's coming from, I already know what is driving him to say and do what he does. I ain't on board with that.
    Last edited by nastynice; 01-16-2019 at 02:33 AM.

  8. #1763
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    Quote Originally Posted by benny01 View Post
    You don’t need to be macgyver to run a saw, a few fingers and a thumb will manage. I bid jobs 10-15 times a year that require us to cut off steel posts filled with concrete. We figure about 5 minutes a post, and we have to cut them flush.

    I can’t find any stats on their site that don’t be include all ports of entry, which is a completely different subject. We are talking about a very narrow slice of that problem. I’m assuming you didn’t get that at first look, which is why I asked you to point at the specific numbers.

    2-3 billion could double the amount of border agents from 20,000 to 40,000. That’s a man every 1/3 mile, 24/7 with about a 25% budget increase that I’m not really concerned about. I’m just pulling it from the military budget, they’ll get by. That’s a far cry from the 25B needed for a wall that still requires a substantial increase in border agents to be effective. Nevermind the annual maintenance on said wall.

    It absolutely is hyperbole. Feel free to run the clip of any past presidents proposing a 30ft. concrete wall the entire length of our southern border that Mexico will pay for. This and what you say after get to the root of the problem. The Congress hasn’t done the things that would be EFFECTIVE in solving the problem at the border, so let’s throw a tantrum and put up a big wall. Sound logic. It’s a vanity feel good project and nothing more.
    I understand you don't believe walls can work. Even I don't believe they are going to stop every single person. But I do believe a wall is a very important piece to a layered security plan. I don't really believe that the total number of people attempting to breach the border will all show up with gas demo saws. And I do believe that if you provide a means to drastically slow them down from simply sprinting across that it will reduce the flow and allow the additional measures (technology and border agents) to have time to detect and respond.

    And no, I do not recall off hand any of those other politicians proposing a 30 ft. wall. The problem is they all campaign on it, promise they are all in to fix it for the American people, make impassioned speeches about it.....................get the votes and then do nothing about it. So here we are. To date and currently no one has proposed a real actionable plan besides the wall. So here we are. Democrats are vehemently opposed to the wall while at the same time going on about how FOR they are for border security......yet have proposed no actual plan, no actual budget and nothing tangible. So here we are. And no the .."walls don't work, we will use technology and drones" is a vague talking point with zero actual substance. There's no plan and there's no budget from that side. So here we are. You can hate him or think he's got a horrible agenda....but like it or a major reason Trump won was because he campaigned on specific issues with specific goals...provided lists of judges he'd appoint etc......and like it or not he's attempting to follow through on the items he campaigned on. Name an issue where HRC or any of his political opponents have provided a detailed plan to fix problems?

    So again....with all the acrimony...every republican politician I've seen seems to be saying to Dems......if you don't like it what's your plan?...........well, what is it? Again we're all the way back to Bush 41 without a solution from any of them...............>So here we are.

  9. #1764
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    Extended DACA eligibility for $2B to build a wall. No extra money for maintenance, one time amount. Trump needs a deal to save face with his base and we want to treat people humanely. If not, then he gets no wall.
    Let's get embedded tweets working again!

    https://forums.prosportsdaily.com/sh...5#post33780085

  10. #1765
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hatch View Post
    I understand you don't believe walls can work. Even I don't believe they are going to stop every single person. But I do believe a wall is a very important piece to a layered security plan. I don't really believe that the total number of people attempting to breach the border will all show up with gas demo saws. And I do believe that if you provide a means to drastically slow them down from simply sprinting across that it will reduce the flow and allow the additional measures (technology and border agents) to have time to detect and respond.

    And no, I do not recall off hand any of those other politicians proposing a 30 ft. wall. The problem is they all campaign on it, promise they are all in to fix it for the American people, make impassioned speeches about it.....................get the votes and then do nothing about it. So here we are. To date and currently no one has proposed a real actionable plan besides the wall. So here we are. Democrats are vehemently opposed to the wall while at the same time going on about how FOR they are for border security......yet have proposed no actual plan, no actual budget and nothing tangible. So here we are. And no the .."walls don't work, we will use technology and drones" is a vague talking point with zero actual substance. There's no plan and there's no budget from that side. So here we are. You can hate him or think he's got a horrible agenda....but like it or a major reason Trump won was because he campaigned on specific issues with specific goals...provided lists of judges he'd appoint etc......and like it or not he's attempting to follow through on the items he campaigned on. Name an issue where HRC or any of his political opponents have provided a detailed plan to fix problems?

    So again....with all the acrimony...every republican politician I've seen seems to be saying to Dems......if you don't like it what's your plan?...........well, what is it? Again we're all the way back to Bush 41 without a solution from any of them...............>So here we are.
    A few things. I’m sure a barrier could help agents in certain areas, we built them under presidents from both parties. When they are part of a comprehensive plan, they aren’t completely absurd. A call for a 30ft. concrete wall the length of the border is absurd, and a ham handed race-baiting pander. It’s nothing more. Shutting the government down and throwing a tantrum like a five year old after Democrats have passed a funding bill that was negotiated with majorities in both houses by your Vice President if a ****ing joke. When the needed budget goes from 25B, to 5B, to please let me build something makes it nothing more than a vanity project. I’d rather give him a million bucks to build a big sign with his name on it.

    I can assure you that no other presidents did call for a 30ft concrete wall the length of the border. They all had their problems, but they were adults. Sure he’s trying to fulfill a campaign promise, it should have been easy with both houses. Moreover he made his wall/immigration his main issue in a midterm where he got whooped. Any mandate he has is gone, the dems are doing what the voters asked of them.

    This idea that the dems have no plan for the border is nonsense. Again, they passed the bill that Pence(acting as Trumps surrogate) negotiated with the Senate word for word. A bill his house wouldn’t put up for vote. A plan that has been reducing immigrants coming from the border consistently for a decade. A “crisis” that has been ignored for sure.lol

  11. #1766
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    I wouldn't say a white supremacy issue. Just that I believe the rhetoric has dominated the actual issue in this case. Maybe not on the surface, but I do believe it is there at the core. On both sides. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy there are people siding against trumps divisive rhetoric, that's something which personally helps me, but both sides are kinda entrenched in it. I am, myself, too. I just oppose it, he came at this whole thing from too sideways a manner from the jump, I ain't with it. **** him, lol

    Kinda like the Muslim ban. Even if he modified it to contain less countries, dude already showed his hand, I already know where he's coming from, I already know what is driving him to say and do what he does. I ain't on board with that.
    Okay. When you say "make america white again" it implies white supremacy to me. And the immigration issue WAY pre-dates Trump and his rhetorical insanity so I don't think it's a core issue for most people. It's certainly there, there are always going to be some people who want fewer brown people, but I don't think it's a fundamental motivation for the vast majority of people who want to reduce the number of illegal immigrants in the country (something that has been fundamentally supported by Democrats until Trump decided to pipe up).

  12. #1767
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    You are heavily influenced by facades. The wall is a facade. The real discussion taking place here is wether we want to make America white again.
    I think that this is your own bias that allows you to believe this.







    just as some here, these people continue to be ignored by a certain side.



    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    a person is smart. people are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals.
    #TrumpDerangementSyndrome


  13. #1768
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    Do they send you those articles already bolded? Serious question. If you actually read the entire quotes, all the questions you have are answered.

  14. #1769
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    Extended DACA eligibility for $2B to build a wall. No extra money for maintenance, one time amount. Trump needs a deal to save face with his base and we want to treat people humanely. If not, then he gets no wall.
    I think you underestimate what his base is thinking ... from what I've heard in Texas they like that a President is finally standing up to the Dems and being a stubborn prick.

  15. #1770
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    Okay. When you say "make america white again" it implies white supremacy to me. And the immigration issue WAY pre-dates Trump and his rhetorical insanity so I don't think it's a core issue for most people. It's certainly there, there are always going to be some people who want fewer brown people, but I don't think it's a fundamental motivation for the vast majority of people who want to reduce the number of illegal immigrants in the country (something that has been fundamentally supported by Democrats until Trump decided to pipe up).
    Exactly, this immigration issue way predates trump, yet it is today and today only that it is now an emergency which requires a shut down.

    The immigration issue is the same. The rhetoric is different. Like I said, this is really about the rhetoric, that's why today we're having national emergencies for things that are actually improved compared from yesterday.

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