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View Poll Results: Where do you rank Jimmy Butler?

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Results 46 to 60 of 68
  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrigheyes4MVP View Post
    BTW as a Kings fan who has watched plenty of Cousins in recent years... there is no way Klay is worse than him. No chance in hell. The Kings couldn't win with him and the Pelicans can barely scrape their way to .500 with him joining Anthony Davis. His defense is trash and he can be really inefficient at times, especially for a big. Don't let the number fool you. And are we really gonna rank CP3 ahead of Klay too? The guy has trouble staying healthy these days. Klay is one of the best shooters all time and a plus defender. He's also very underrated putting the ball on the floor and he produces no matter who else is on the floor. The Warriors won a record breaking 73 games BEFORE Durant came to town. That says something about Klay that everyone is taking him for granted.
    No one takes Klay for granted. He's just quiet so no one cares to. Plus, people expect the Warriors to wash every team away every game they play so there aren't many expectations for them at this point. I don't know if Klay is better than Cousins at all. I'd take Cousins over Klay because Cousins causes many problems. He's too skilled for many big C's and too big for small C's. Klay is a shooter. That's it. He's got very good defense but how much of that is accredited to the overall Warriors system? I mean, you can make a case Iggy+KD+Draymond are all better defenders than Klay. I'd be curious to see how Klay does with his own team or at least being the 2nd option. He might score bunches of points but I can't imagine him winning more than Cousins did.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by lol, please View Post
    1. We don't penalize players for being in situations they cannot control.

    2. He doesn't disappear or go unnoticed for spurts. He's a huge part of the offense to anyone paying attention to this team. Ditch that pre-Durant-acquisition narrative, it holds no weight.

    Sent from my Note 8 using Tapatalk
    Really? Is that why he scored 10 points on 16 shots against the Clippers last week? Is that why three of his five games in the Finals last year, he scored 13 or fewer points, or why he averaged a pathetic 11 points per game against the Spurs on 32.7 percent shooting and 14 points a game against the Jazz on 43 percent shooting?

    Klay Thompson is the luckiest star player in the NBA. Look how much flack guys like Harden and Paul get for supposed poor performance in the playoffs. If those guys played like Thompson did last year in the playoffs, they would get absolutely crucified for it. But he gets a free pass because his team wins anyway, and it glosses over his abysmal numbers.

    I'll make this following point again, since I made it after my initial post for you. I'd love to see how you counter this...

    Edit: One more point about Klay I'll make, and then I'll shut up. But he NEVER goes to the free throw line, like ever. Dude averages only 1.3 FTA per game this season, and the most he's ever averaged is 3.3 per game. And you might say, "That just shows he's scoring points 'the right way.' He's just not flopping like everybody else!" But that illustrates a larger point about his game—he rarely ever drives to the basket. Only 12.2 percent of his shot attempts this season have come within 3 feet of the rim, and a shocking 68.6 percent of his shots come 16 feet or further from the basket.

    Now that's not a problem if you're a second or third option catching passes and drilling wide open looks every night. But how would he handle if he had to create for himself? You'll probably say "He creates for himself all the time!" But does he? According to 82games, he's been assisted on an astounding 84 percent of his shots this season. 84 percent! Now, Golden State is a team that likes to pass a lot, but Curry and Durant are assisted on about 51 and 58 percent of their shots, respectively, by comparison.

    To put that into perspective, Capela on the Rockets is essentially just a pick and roll monster who slashes to the rim for layups and dunks. About 83 percent of his shots are assisted this season by comparison. That really should tell you something about Klay. Take him out of the Warriors, and you essentially have a perimeter jump shooter who can't create his own shot and doesn't get to the rim.

    Quote Originally Posted by numba1CHANGsta View Post
    Just trust me, Hou wont make it all the way to the WCF 😉
    Quote Originally Posted by tredigs View Post
    Houston may make the WCF again, but barring injuries they are no longer a serious threat this year imo.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by lol, please View Post
    1. We don't penalize players for being in situations they cannot control.

    2. We don't assume a player cannot assume a role he has never been asked to assume without very good reason. Players deserve the benefit of the doubt until they prove otherwise.

    3. He doesn't disappear or go unnoticed for spurts. He's a huge part of the offense to anyone paying attention to this team. Ditch that pre-Durant-acquisition narrative, it holds no weight.

    Sent from my Note 8 using Tapatalk
    He disappeared in the Finals numerous times. You hold zero credibility at this point if you forget how awful he was in some games.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlashBolt View Post
    He disappeared in the Finals numerous times. You hold zero credibility at this point if you forget how awful he was in some games.
    A lot* of games
    Don’t forget to smile today, they’re contagious!!!


  5. #50
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    I don't really see a legit argument for Klay over Butler and no, Klay is not better than Cousins ether.

    Jimmy and Cousins are top 10, borderline in Cousins situation. Klay is probably 20-25.
    Don’t forget to smile today, they’re contagious!!!


  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlashBolt View Post
    I'd be curious to see how Klay does with his own team or at least being the 2nd option.

    If Klay wasn't the second option between DLee going down and Durant getting acquired, then who was?



    Sent from my Note 8 using Tapatalk

  7. #52
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    LeBron
    KD
    Steph
    HArden
    Kawhi
    Westbrook
    Butler
    Giannis
    AD
    Cousins
    CP3
    Wall
    IT
    Hayward
    Gasol
    Dame
    Towns
    PG
    Embiid
    Derozan
    Green
    Griffin
    Kristaps
    Jokic
    Conley

    I think all those guys are for sure better than Klay then you have the debatable guys based on situation or guys knocking on the door:

    CJ
    Beal
    Oladipo
    Whiteside
    Gobert
    Drummond


    Probably forgetting some.
    Don’t forget to smile today, they’re contagious!!!


  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by mightybosstone View Post
    Really? Is that why he scored 10 points on 16 shots against the Clippers last week? Is that why three of his five games in the Finals last year, he scored 13 or fewer points, or why he averaged a pathetic 11 points per game against the Spurs on 32.7 percent shooting and 14 points a game against the Jazz on 43 percent shooting?

    Klay Thompson is the luckiest star player in the NBA. Look how much flack guys like Harden and Paul get for supposed poor performance in the playoffs. If those guys played like Thompson did last year in the playoffs, they would get absolutely crucified for it. But he gets a free pass because his team wins anyway, and it glosses over his abysmal numbers.

    I'll make this following point again, since I made it after my initial post for you. I'd love to see how you counter this...

    Edit: One more point about Klay I'll make, and then I'll shut up. But he NEVER goes to the free throw line, like ever. Dude averages only 1.3 FTA per game this season, and the most he's ever averaged is 3.3 per game. And you might say, "That just shows he's scoring points 'the right way.' He's just not flopping like everybody else!" But that illustrates a larger point about his game—he rarely ever drives to the basket. Only 12.2 percent of his shot attempts this season have come within 3 feet of the rim, and a shocking 68.6 percent of his shots come 16 feet or further from the basket.

    Now that's not a problem if you're a second or third option catching passes and drilling wide open looks every night. But how would he handle if he had to create for himself? You'll probably say "He creates for himself all the time!" But does he? According to 82games, he's been assisted on an astounding 84 percent of his shots this season. 84 percent! Now, Golden State is a team that likes to pass a lot, but Curry and Durant are assisted on about 51 and 58 percent of their shots, respectively, by comparison.

    To put that into perspective, Capela on the Rockets is essentially just a pick and roll monster who slashes to the rim for layups and dunks. About 83 percent of his shots are assisted this season by comparison. That really should tell you something about Klay. Take him out of the Warriors, and you essentially have a perimeter jump shooter who can't create his own shot and doesn't get to the rim.
    Please don't nitpick a few games here and here, that Clippers game especially, it's petty to point at outliers. We can do that for anyone in the NBA.

    Yea he had a sub par finals, won't deny it. Wasn't happy about it.

    Sure, he isn't a complete player. How many are? He's an elite shooter, will probably go down as one of the greatest ever along with Curry, an elite two way player with elite defense, but there are holes in his game. The good news is that every season he's improved and I don't think he's peaked. His ball handling has improved over the seasons and continues to do so. He drives to the basket and gets to the line slightly more often. The fact that there's progress means there is growth and a focus to improve.

    But acknowledging he has flaws and isn't s compete player, I still consider him superior to Butler. Like I told flashbolt, if the differences in defense is negligible (and to me it is) and one shooter is notable better than the other, give me the better shooter every time.

    Sent from my Note 8 using Tapatalk

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by lol, please View Post
    Please don't nitpick a few games here and here, that Clippers game especially, it's petty to point at outliers. We can do that for anyone in the NBA.
    Except I essentially pointed out his entire 2016-17 postseason, too. Are we going to just ignore that? In fact, take away the 2015-16 postseason, and he was pretty pedestrian in every single postseason of his career. His career postseason advanced metrics are mediocre at best.

    Sure, he isn't a complete player. How many are? He's an elite shooter, will probably go down as one of the greatest ever along with Curry, an elite two way player with elite defense, but there are holes in his game.
    For me, it goes beyond Klay being an "incomplete player." Harden is an incomplete player because he's a poor individual perimeter defender against quicker guards. Giannis is an incomplete player because he can't shoot a consistent perimeter jumper to save his life.

    To me, Klay is a specialist. Now, he's an excellent specialist, and he might be the greatest 3 and D player in the history of the NBA, but that's kind of who he is. He has two skills. One of them (shooting) is probably something that he's a top 5 player at in the history of the league. The other (perimeter defense), he's very good at, but nobody would call him elite. And that pretty much ends his list of above average skills.

    The good news is that every season he's improved and I don't think he's peaked. His ball handling has improved over the seasons and continues to do so. He drives to the basket and gets to the line slightly more often. The fact that there's progress means there is growth and a focus to improve.
    Has he improved in those areas? Because the numbers say otherwise. His 11.6 percent AST% is higher than the last two seasons, but still lower than 2014-15 (clearly his best NBA season). And those 12.2 percent of his shot attempts within three feet is actually the lowest number of his entire career, so he's clearly not driving to the lane more.

    Here's the truth: He is getting better. At shooting. Which is his one elite skill. His 52 percent shooting from mid-range and 45 percent shooting from the 3-point line are both high marks of his career. But what other numbers or attributes point toward actual improvement? Seriously, point to one quantifiable skill he's significantly better at today than he was three years ago.

    Because the truth is that he keeps getting better at shooting, but he's plateaued at pretty much everything else, and that's just who he is.

    But acknowledging he has flaws and isn't s compete player, I still consider him superior to Butler. Like I told flashbolt, if the differences in defense is negligible (and to me it is) and one shooter is notable better than the other, give me the better shooter every time.

    Sent from my Note 8 using Tapatalk
    You can consider him better than Butler all you want. That doesn't make it true. Pretty much every single advanced statistical measurement disagrees with that, and by a pretty huge margin. Now Klay is certainly a better shooter and he plays for a better team. I'll concede both of those points. But Jimmy is better at literally everything else.

    Quote Originally Posted by numba1CHANGsta View Post
    Just trust me, Hou wont make it all the way to the WCF 😉
    Quote Originally Posted by tredigs View Post
    Houston may make the WCF again, but barring injuries they are no longer a serious threat this year imo.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by lol, please View Post
    If Klay wasn't the second option between DLee going down and Durant getting acquired, then who was?



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    That was a baby Klay. I'm talking about now. He ain't the 2nd option or even 3rd these days. I think Draymond touches the ball more.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by lol, please View Post
    Please don't nitpick a few games here and here, that Clippers game especially, it's petty to point at outliers. We can do that for anyone in the NBA.

    Yea he had a sub par finals, won't deny it. Wasn't happy about it.

    Sure, he isn't a complete player. How many are? He's an elite shooter, will probably go down as one of the greatest ever along with Curry, an elite two way player with elite defense, but there are holes in his game. The good news is that every season he's improved and I don't think he's peaked. His ball handling has improved over the seasons and continues to do so. He drives to the basket and gets to the line slightly more often. The fact that there's progress means there is growth and a focus to improve.

    But acknowledging he has flaws and isn't s compete player, I still consider him superior to Butler. Like I told flashbolt, if the differences in defense is negligible (and to me it is) and one shooter is notable better than the other, give me the better shooter every time.

    Sent from my Note 8 using Tapatalk
    Lol.

    1) Defense isn't negligible. How many ALL NBA DEFENSIVE TEAMS has Klay made? Klay can be easily overpowered and outmaneuvered because he's slow on his feet at times. There is no debate on defense: Jimmy B is prime A material and Klay is 2nd grade. Klay has good defense but so far, we've only seen him do so on a great defensive team that without him, would still rank top five in the league.

    2) Right. Cause Butler isn't a better playmaker, rebounder, and overall player than Klay. Klay is the better shooter, got it. By your logic, you should put Klay over Harden as well. He's the better defender/shooter.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlashBolt View Post
    I'd have him in the top 10-15 range. Really could go anywhere but I still think Paul George is the better player so I can't realistically put him above PG in any case. I'm more concerned about Minny's playoff struggles than anything so top four in West doesn't mean much at all. Like in the playoffs, I'd trust OKC more than Minny.
    I used to think PG was better. I think they are even, but I think a Jimmy is mentally tougher. And I do think PG is mentally tough.

  13. #58
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    He's top 12 in my book.

  14. #59
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  15. #60
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    Finished top 3 I believe last year too.
    Don’t forget to smile today, they’re contagious!!!


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