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View Poll Results: Which of the remaining players is best?

Voters
18. You may not vote on this poll
  • Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

    6 33.33%
  • Wilt Chamberlain

    5 27.78%
  • Shaquille O'Neal

    5 27.78%
  • Tim Duncan

    0 0%
  • Magic Johnson

    0 0%
  • Larry Bird

    1 5.56%
  • Kobe Bryant

    1 5.56%
  • Hakeem Olajuwon

    0 0%
  • Another Player (Please Specify)

    0 0%
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Results 1 to 15 of 57
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
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    Washington
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    Best Player of All-Time List (#3)

    So we do a "Top 25 greatest players of all-time list" routinely here on PSD, but I want to do an all-time list of best, not greatest.

    What is the difference?

    This is not a list that measures a players accolades or career, it is a list of simply, if all the players were at their peak/in their prime/at their best (however you describe it) and all in a draft, who would you take first to play against each other in a draft?

    Who are the best players throughout NBA history. You can use stats or accolades to back up your opinion, but this is about who is best, not who made the most All-NBA teams, or who scored the most points, etc. If you think player A is better than player B despite them having a shorter career, vote for player A.

    I have started the poll with 10 players. If you wish to vote for someone else, please vote for other and post who you voted for in the comments. If you wish to nominate someone (or multiple people) for the next poll, post in the comments and I will add them if there are at least 2 nominations for that player.

    In the event of a tie vote, they will both be listed at that number and the next player will begin where that is left off (for instance, T-6th, T-6th, 8th)

    Current List

    1. Michael Jordan
    2. LeBron James
    Last edited by valade16; 01-09-2018 at 01:57 PM.

  2. #2
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    It seems in the battle of Shaq, Wilt and Kareem people are picking Shaq (thus far).

    I do wonder if we're not giving due credit to how dominant Kareem was.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    21,882
    im voting wilt. I think 50/25 and 44/24 is simply a feat that hasn't been matched.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2013
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    2,252
    If this was an ATRD, of course I'd pick Shaq because he's more modern and all people have to do is say "LA Shaq" and they have to change their panties... even though LA Shaq and Orlando Shaq are virtually the same player statistically (albeit, LA Shaq had 1 more assist/game but was actually slightly less efficient scoring).

    But since I am not competing anyone's vote, for me it's fairly easy... Kareem.

    For someone so "dominant" offensively, Shaq's efficiency, while good, is not WOWZERS great. In fact, his 3 year prime is virtually identical to Kareem's 3 year prime efficiency-wise (Kareem is slightly more efficient)... the difference being, Kareem played in a noticeably less efficient era. When looking at VORP, Shaq's is surprisingly low... Kareem would have averaged 10 VORP/year if he didn't miss 20 games in one season in his 3-year peak. Shaq's highest is 9.3, his 2nd highest is 6.8 (although "baby Shaq had a 7.1 VORP) during his 3-year peak. Their rebound % and ast % are very close as well (Kareem being marginally better rebounder and Shaq having a marginally higher ast %).

    All-in-all, I think Kareem would make for a much better #1 player than Shaq. I think he could guard Shaq as well as anyone else... but LA Shaq aka "fat Shaq" would have a difficult time "dominating" on offense while keeping up with Kareem to guard him defensively. I wouldn't be tempted to bench Kareem during crunch time to avoid the hack-a-Kareem... He was a really good free throw shooter for a bigman. I'm not sure how it's NOT Kareem honestly...
    Last edited by Redrum187; 01-09-2018 at 06:21 PM.
    2015 Bull's Mock Trade Game Championship Team

    San Antonio Spurs

    PG: Chris Paul | Patty Mills | Jose Calderon
    SG: Khris Middleton | J.J. Redick | Iman Shumpert
    SF: DeMarre Carroll | P.J. Tucker | Anthony Morrow
    PF: Tim Duncan | Carlos Boozer | Kyle O'Quinn
    C : Al Horford | Rudy Gobert

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2013
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    Request to add "Jumpin" Joe Fulks to next list please.
    2015 Bull's Mock Trade Game Championship Team

    San Antonio Spurs

    PG: Chris Paul | Patty Mills | Jose Calderon
    SG: Khris Middleton | J.J. Redick | Iman Shumpert
    SF: DeMarre Carroll | P.J. Tucker | Anthony Morrow
    PF: Tim Duncan | Carlos Boozer | Kyle O'Quinn
    C : Al Horford | Rudy Gobert

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    27,082
    Wilt.

    His combination of size, speed, and leaping ability make him the best fit for the modern game. Can you imagine Shaq or Kareem switching out on to Curry?


    Kristaps Porzingis
    Stronger than most 15 year old girls.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by KnicksorBust View Post
    Wilt.

    His combination of size, speed, and leaping ability make him the best fit for the modern game. Can you imagine Shaq or Kareem switching out on to Curry?
    I can imagine Kareem... while not nearly as fast to keep up with Curry, I think his length would allow him to do better defensively against Curry than Wilt. From everything I've read, Kareem was the best defender of the lot.
    2015 Bull's Mock Trade Game Championship Team

    San Antonio Spurs

    PG: Chris Paul | Patty Mills | Jose Calderon
    SG: Khris Middleton | J.J. Redick | Iman Shumpert
    SF: DeMarre Carroll | P.J. Tucker | Anthony Morrow
    PF: Tim Duncan | Carlos Boozer | Kyle O'Quinn
    C : Al Horford | Rudy Gobert

  8. #8
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    I know Wilt played in a time when efficiency was low, but so did Kareem (granted they entered the league 10 years apart). Wilt did his 50/25 thing on .537 TS%. He wasn't as efficient as Kareem, and he played against inferior opposition.
    2015 Bull's Mock Trade Game Championship Team

    San Antonio Spurs

    PG: Chris Paul | Patty Mills | Jose Calderon
    SG: Khris Middleton | J.J. Redick | Iman Shumpert
    SF: DeMarre Carroll | P.J. Tucker | Anthony Morrow
    PF: Tim Duncan | Carlos Boozer | Kyle O'Quinn
    C : Al Horford | Rudy Gobert

  9. #9
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    Kobe Bryant

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redrum187 View Post
    I know Wilt played in a time when efficiency was low, but so did Kareem (granted they entered the league 10 years apart). Wilt did his 50/25 thing on .537 TS%. He wasn't as efficient as Kareem, and he played against inferior opposition.
    That TS% thing will never help a guy like Wilt who had that many FGA but wasn't a good FT shooter. It's not really a fair measure as well because the game was entirely different when Wilt played during the earlier years and efficiency wasn't something they really cared about. Later his years, he became more selective with his shots and his TS% was much higher overall.

    KAJ didn't necessarily play against far superior opposition. I mean, how many rings would KAJ have without Magic? He could have very well ended his career winning 2-3 rings only had Magic not shown up. Also, Wilt was by far the superior athlete, shotblocker, and rebounder. Which season of KAJ was better than Wilt? I'm not seeing it. I don't see a season where KAJ also surpassed Shaq. KAJ's highest rebounding season never even broke Wilt's worst rebounding season.

  11. #11
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    What's more impressive: 40/25/3 with mediocre efficiency in the early 60s (Wilt), 30/16/5 with elite efficiency in the early 70s (Kareem) or 29/13/3 with elite efficiency (Shaq)? You could make a strong case for any of the the three.

    Advanced stats don't paint a clear picture of the three either. PER obviously leans toward Wilt's peak, WS and WS/48 favor Kareem, but VORP and BPM aren't tracked prior to the mid-70s, which eliminates Kareem and Wilt's peaks.

    Gun to my head, I kind of want to lean toward Kareem. From 71-74, he won three MVPs, one title and put up three consecutive seasons of 30/16/4 with a 29+ PER and a .320+ WS/48 over a four-year span, which is ridiculous. Wilt didn't get his first title until he was 30, and by then, his peak had definitely passed him by. Also, from a pure skill standpoint, I think Kareem was a more skilled player on paper than Shaq.

    Shaq is tougher to argue in this case, because his major selling point is that his peak and prime were consistently spectacular for a much longer period of time than Kareem and Wilt's peaks. But I don't think they're quite as strong. However, from 2000-02, he won three titles and an MVP over three seasons, so that certainly helps his case. I'd argue, though, that those Lakers teams were probably more talented and better built that Kareem's Bucks teams in the 70s with a well-past-his-prime Oscar Robertson.

    Quote Originally Posted by numba1CHANGsta View Post
    Just trust me, Hou wont make it all the way to the WCF 😉
    Quote Originally Posted by tredigs View Post
    Houston may make the WCF again, but barring injuries they are no longer a serious threat this year imo.

  12. #12
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    980
    Quote Originally Posted by KnicksorBust View Post
    Wilt.

    His combination of size, speed, and leaping ability make him the best fit for the modern game. Can you imagine Shaq or Kareem switching out on to Curry?
    Is this relevant to the voting criteria?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeonFSU View Post
    Is this relevant to the voting criteria?
    I think his point had more to do with Wilt being able to dominate in any era because his athleticism and physical capabilities was extraordinary.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by GREATNESS ONE View Post
    Kobe Bryant
    Lol. C'mon man. I get that you're a Lakers fan and a huge Kobe guy, but his peak was nowhere remotely close to third all-time. In fact, the consistency and longevity of his prime was what made him a top 10-15 guy in the league. But if you take his best season and put it up there against the best seasons of all-time, he's pretty far down that list.

    In all seriousness, I don't know that Kobe would crack my all-time top 25 in this discussion.

    Quote Originally Posted by numba1CHANGsta View Post
    Just trust me, Hou wont make it all the way to the WCF 😉
    Quote Originally Posted by tredigs View Post
    Houston may make the WCF again, but barring injuries they are no longer a serious threat this year imo.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlashBolt View Post
    That TS% thing will never help a guy like Wilt who had that many FGA but wasn't a good FT shooter. It's not really a fair measure as well because the game was entirely different when Wilt played during the earlier years and efficiency wasn't something they really cared about. Later his years, he became more selective with his shots and his TS% was much higher overall.

    KAJ didn't necessarily play against far superior opposition. I mean, how many rings would KAJ have without Magic? He could have very well ended his career winning 2-3 rings only had Magic not shown up. Also, Wilt was by far the superior athlete, shotblocker, and rebounder. Which season of KAJ was better than Wilt? I'm not seeing it. I don't see a season where KAJ also surpassed Shaq. KAJ's highest rebounding season never even broke Wilt's worst rebounding season.
    It is a fact (technically an opinion, I get it lol) that the talent was not as good for bigmen in Wilt's era than in Kareem's era. As to how much, I will go ahead and say that is open to debate/discussion, sure.

    The efficiency argument goes for Kareem too though. They didn't focus on efficiency, I was just making a point that Wilt was not very efficient against inferior opposition (which no one can argue, one can only argue to what degree of inferior bigmen there were).

    As for the rings argument, it doesn't have as much weight (for me personally) when comparing 2 or 3 players' superior peak. Also, one could argue how many rings Shaq would have without the 2nd and 3rd greatest SG's in NBA history (Kobe and Wade). I get what your saying though, I just see it a little differently.
    2015 Bull's Mock Trade Game Championship Team

    San Antonio Spurs

    PG: Chris Paul | Patty Mills | Jose Calderon
    SG: Khris Middleton | J.J. Redick | Iman Shumpert
    SF: DeMarre Carroll | P.J. Tucker | Anthony Morrow
    PF: Tim Duncan | Carlos Boozer | Kyle O'Quinn
    C : Al Horford | Rudy Gobert

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