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  1. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakmont_4 View Post
    I don't get what your point here is?
    The point is that BB has lied and TB has lied - to go along with RK. So, 3 guys that can lie once can sure lie again - in particular during playoff time which any admitted fissures would be page 1 news for days if not weeks.

    I don't see what your philosophical beliefs have to do with any of this...Other than further prove you'd never admit your wrong (as you haven't over the years when it comes to Brady's demise) and will continue to push propaganda with no factual basis of support....Just speculation and conjecture.
    But you only deal in facts, right? The point is the dismissal of the guru, the lavish praise for JG by BB, the weak trade result, the talking/writing of the local media for months, the huge amount of focus TB has for his TB12 business/image. Too much to be a coincidence.

    I'm honestly disappointed in how far off your posts have fallen over the past year or so. I used to enjoy them. Now you just sound like CNN and ESPN. It's actually the main reason I haven't been on these boards of late. I used to come to see you and HPF's thoughts. Now I can't stand to read your dribble. Shame really.
    It's "drivel" BTW ace. I'm sure you want to take time off the worship at the feet of your favorite white supremacist - Steve Bannon. Let me know when you get off the self righteous rag.
    I am not a con artist! I am a businessman! I have a big brain and I'm good at making deals! People are just jealous of my BIG BRAIN! BAD!

    Guess who? The future X-Presdent...

  2. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakmont_4 View Post
    I never said it would be easy to find a QB, merely that it can be done. They turned Matt Cassell into a viable option (not a world beater by any means but good enough to go 11-5), Hoyer is serviceable enough and they found him on the UDFA wire. Jimmy G was found in the second round. So it can be done. To think we're going to find another TB is a fools errand, I certainly don't expect that. And to think Jimmy G is going to be the second coming is foolish as well. Has he looked good in an extremely small sample size, sure. But no guarantee he's not going to fall off. In fact, I'd bet a lot of money he's going to being he set such a high bar for himself in his first 5 games in SF.
    If you were a GM and said that to a competent NFL owner, entrusting you to plan and build the team, you'd be fired on the spot. Suddenly the argument is now a vague "it can be done". When? How long? What assets are required (if the Pats settled for a lousy 2nd rounder then have to trade their 28-32 pick to move up the mid-first, to hopefully acquire someone who plays like JG, the whole 'plan' looks rather ridiculous -- doesn't it)?

    You know as well as I do that a good portion of any QB's success depends on system fit and organizational structure/roster around them. Cleveland is terrible, you know that, I know that. SF is a good organization that started a rebuild. They have a solid coach in place, a young roster, lots of draft picks and cash. Success in SF for ANYONE is a better bet than CLE. If Jimmy went to CLE and stunk (which there's a better chance than not of that happening there) they're not going to franchise him in 2018...Which means Jimmy more than likely would have walked...Potentially into our division. SF that's not going to happen.
    Exactly. Whoever the Patriots acquire in the 18/19 drafts, one thing is for sure: the environment for this new player, with quality O coaches likely gone, will not be what it was for Garappolo. And at that point the TB celebrity will be too overwhelming, even more territorial/unruly, with BB possibly gone to reign it in.

    My fear: McDaniels as head coach with TB his puppeteer on basically a lifetime contract.

    There's a difference. One of the sources from the ESPN articles was a "friend of Brady" Why would a friend of Brady come out with that. That's not believable. A "source from the FBI" is a believable anonymous source. Completely different situations here. This is an awful comparison
    BB has been collaborating with ESPN on the Parcells/Belichick documentary, then oddly an overwhelmingly pro-BB piece is released by the same network. I don't think that's coincidence at all.

    Nor do I think the friend of Brady account is that ridiculous. Did you ever hear the TB interview on K&C when he opened up on nutrition? It was the most animated I've ever heard Brady with the media, and dude sounded like a straight up nut. Like crazed. I don't think it's a stretch to think TB12 is slowly changing him, his celebrity unleashing within the organization. It's human nature.

    When has BB ever traded away an MVP? This is a false equivalency because trading TB would be unprecedented in BB's philosophy.
    It would be unique in some respects, but in line with a ~20 year philosophy of trading players one year early than one year too late.

    How so?
    My own belief is that Belichick wanted to extend Garappolo, then deal Brady at season's end -- regardless of outcome. At 39 there's nothing TB could do, even have an MVP season capped off with a SB, to reverse that more long-term thinking. So the situation was really beyond Brady's control ... unless you get in the owner's ear and circumvent the coach.
    Last edited by elements1985; 01-11-2018 at 08:17 AM.

  3. #168
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    If you were a GM and said that to a competent NFL owner, entrusting you to plan and build the team, you'd be fired on the spot. Suddenly the argument is now a vague "it can be done". When? How long? What assets are required (if the Pats settled for a lousy 2nd rounder then have to trade their 28-32 pick to move up the mid-first, to hopefully acquire someone who plays like JG, the whole 'plan' looks rather ridiculous -- doesn't it)?
    What GM says finding a QB is easy? Never heard one say that. So I disagree completely. QB's have been found all over the draft spectrum. #1's. Late firsts, seconds, thirds, seventh, UDFA. No GM thinks they can magically make the next QB and they would never set the expectations with their owner there. Would I present it the way I wrote it if I was a GM, of course not. I didn't realize my post was a GM application post...

    Exactly. Whoever the Patriots acquire in the 18/19 drafts, one thing is for sure: the environment for this new player, with quality O coaches likely gone, will not be what it was for Garappolo. And at that point the TB celebrity will be too overwhelming, even more territorial/unruly, with BB possibly gone to reign it in.
    That is not for sure yet. At this point, I'm not sure McDaniels leaves unless it's for the Giants job. He very well may be back.

    My fear: McDaniels as head coach with TB his puppeteer on basically a lifetime contract.
    You're welcome to have said fear, but it hardly helps your point here.

    BB has been collaborating with ESPN on the Parcells/Belichick documentary, then oddly an overwhelmingly pro-BB piece is released by the same network. I don't think that's coincidence at all.
    Again, your own theories don't count as proof of anything. BB has always said he's willing to help in anything that documents the history of the NFL. He's self aware enough of his impact in NFL history and his time with the Giants and Parcells is NFL history. He knows it. He's an NFL historian. Conflating a documentary with an ESPN article that involves nobody that's a part of the documentary is ill advised.

    Nor do I think the friend of Brady account is that ridiculous. Did you ever hear the TB interview on K&C when he opened up on nutrition? It was the most animated I've ever heard Brady with the media, and dude sounded like a straight up nut. Like crazed. I don't think it's a stretch to think TB12 is slowly changing him, his celebrity unleashing within the organization. It's human nature.
    What does a "friend" anonymously reporting to Wickersham have to do with a Brady K&C interview. Blindly throwing out happenings and drawing dots between them is poor investigative work here. Again, give me facts, not whatever it is you're trying to do here.

    It would be unique in some respects, but in line with a ~20 year philosophy of trading players one year early than one year too late.
    He also has a history of not paying QB's $20 mil but you're willing to ignore that part of history, yet this part is somehow supposed to mean something? Again, yes BB trades them a year early. Who's to say this, right now, is a year early? I don't believe it is. I believe that year will be 2019.

    My own belief is that Belichick wanted to extend Garappolo, then deal Brady at season's end -- regardless of outcome. At 39 there's nothing TB could do, even have an MVP season capped off with a SB, to reverse that more long-term thinking. So the situation was really beyond Brady's control ... unless you get in the owner's ear and circumvent the coach.
    I also believe BB wanted to re-sign Jimmy. He tried, failed, traded him. BB wasn't going to pay him $20+ mil. Once he knew that Jimmy wouldn't sign a team friendly deal, he dealt him. Simple as that

    City of Champions

  4. #169
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    I want to clarify some of my points of view on this matter because I think they're being conflated/confused.

    1. I'll start here. BB, Brady and Kraft will all be back next season. I have yet to see any proof or evidence counter this from anyone, media or posters.

    2. There were disagreements in house this season. Alex Guerrero and Jimmy Garropolo being the biggest. However, I don't think this is any different than any past season. We haven't had 17 flawless years and now all of a sudden TB, RK, BB are having disagreements. So I am not contending these disagreements don't/didn't exist. I contend they are nothing any particular party can't get over and move on.

    3. BB did want to re-sign Garropolo. Where I differ is, I don't think there was a mandate from RK. I think Garropolo wanted more than BB was willing to give. THAT coupled with TB playing at an elite/MVP level and his intentions to keep playing - and RK wanting TB to continue to be our QB, led to Jimmy's trade. If BB had his way, I think Jimmy G would be here on a contract around $16-18M, with Brady in the fold for 1 more season or potentially retiring at the end of this season or next...If not he would trade him after 2018. However, Jimmy didn't play ball, Brady wanted to keep playing, Kraft is loyal to Brady (which doesn't mean he's not loyal to BB as well)...So BB had to swallow the pill and trade Jimmy while he could. Simple as that. None of it was in BB's control to start with...BB is a control freak...So I'm sure he wasn't happy how it all turned out, but he'll deal with it and move on.

    4. The Garropolo compensation. Did I want more? Yes, I always want as much as possible. Do I think his compensation was in reason? Based on history, I think so, on the lighter side, but in the realm of what past QB's have gotten. If I could choose sending Jimmy to a team I knew he'd stick at vs. a team that he'd potentiall walk away from in 2018 and sign closer to us for another first round pick...I'd sacrifice the pick to control his destination and keep him far enough away.

    5. Alex Guerrero. I agree 100% what BB did. I do not think it was in any way shape or form to spite Brady. I think it was a smart business decision. BB's medical staff and Alex Guerrero have conflicting interests, BB recognized it, BB ended it in favor of his own employees. Any good manager would do this. Do I think Brady was happy about it? Of course not. Do I think Brady understands the decision? Yes. Do I think this will in any way affect BB and TB's relationship? No.

    In summation, there are elements of truth to these articles. They exist for a reason. But in between the truths are a ton of speculation, conjecture and anonymous sources that make no sense (Why would a friend of Brady cast Brady in a bad light? Makes no sense). Do I think this is the end of the trio? Nope. Do I think they're at the end of their road together? Sure but I thought that in 2015 because it's just a fact, TB can defy odds now but he can't forever. I stick to my prediction at the beginning of the season. TB will play 2018, 2019 at an elite to an above average standard, finally falling off in 2020 and retiring following that season. BB will be 68 at that point...I think he'll step away from the sidelines and move to full time GM, with his sons and coaching staff in place to succeed him.

    City of Champions

  5. #170
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    Zolack says BB will not leave - which I agree with.

    He also says 80% of the issues brought up between RK, TB, and BB in the 4 letter article and local reporters are true.

    One would expect that a game broadcaster, media member and x-player that needs the good faith of the Patriots must be awfully sure of his opinion because it will profit him nothing.
    I am not a con artist! I am a businessman! I have a big brain and I'm good at making deals! People are just jealous of my BIG BRAIN! BAD!

    Guess who? The future X-Presdent...

  6. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakmont_4 View Post

    5. Alex Guerrero. I agree 100% what BB did. I do not think it was in any way shape or form to spite Brady. I think it was a smart business decision. BB's medical staff and Alex Guerrero have conflicting interests, BB recognized it, BB ended it in favor of his own employees. Any good manager would do this. Do I think Brady was happy about it? Of course not. Do I think Brady understands the decision? Yes. Do I think this will in any way affect BB and TB's relationship? No.
    .
    AG has been around the Pats for a decade and a half. He has been treating players, Dispensing advice, and claiming he could cure cancer. BB could have bagged him anytime.

    TB and AG became notably closer the past 5 years as they both started to figure out how to hawk what they were doing. BB could have acted then.

    Anyone that goes to facebook can see TB's latest production - a bizarre lifestyle plug for TB12. TB no longer focuses on Peyton Manning, his battle is against time. Imagine a QB with 8 rings playing until age 46. What a sales tool.

    BB put an end to that - the part he has authority over. He could have done this anytime for years. But it just so happened to be now.
    I am not a con artist! I am a businessman! I have a big brain and I'm good at making deals! People are just jealous of my BIG BRAIN! BAD!

    Guess who? The future X-Presdent...

  7. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by TKO View Post
    How can you say the locals had the facts when no one said anything on the record
    No one? You mean the trioka?

    Reporters often get comments off the record. How could Bedard, Zolack and all rest have a similar opinion of what was going on in Foxboro - since the 3 sphinx were not talking.

    and the only three entities that really know the facts said they were wrong? Recall what the Tuna said about the media: "I swear you guys are Commies". The industry is rife with muckrakers looking to push their own agenda in a shrinking industry.
    That's probably the stupidest thing I ever heard out of Parcells. Sorry to break it to you but the mighty three communicate to mere mortals outside of the mighty 3. Say BB was very upset - do you think he doesn't talk? He talks a lot when he wants

    It's obvious if you watch the Nightly Views. It's not about the truth, it's about the truth as they want you to see it. Like Commies, all the Trump hating networks are shaping their viewers opinions one way and the Trump loving ones are doing the opposite.
    Trump is an abomination. Fox is full of lies. Other networks swing to one side or another but actually manage to get the news out. Funny how the majority of people prefer the real news, not the turd Fox passes out.

    Hatred for Trump comes from many directions. When you speak of him speak of his Administration because he does very little actual work, just watches Fox and Friends, tweets, and says stuff like a "clean DACA bill is what we want".

    Communists? What's that left over from your 11th grade American History class?

    Which networks have you been misled by? I bet you watch Morning Joe and get your daily Patriots sps from Fred Smerlas...LOL!
    Fred isn't talking right now. I get my news from a wide variety of sources: The Economist (center UK), US & News Report (slight right US), Atlantic (left US), Foreign Affairs, MSNBC, CNN, NYT, WP - outside of people who burn books these are as highly respected as you get. Oh yeah I monitor Fox and Brietbart because it's good to know what idiocy the right is brewing up.

    I'll be happy to debate any historical or politcal issue you like in the proper place.
    I am not a con artist! I am a businessman! I have a big brain and I'm good at making deals! People are just jealous of my BIG BRAIN! BAD!

    Guess who? The future X-Presdent...

  8. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    AG has been around the Pats for a decade and a half. He has been treating players, Dispensing advice, and claiming he could cure cancer. BB could have bagged him anytime.

    TB and AG became notably closer the past 5 years as they both started to figure out how to hawk what they were doing. BB could have acted then.

    Anyone that goes to facebook can see TB's latest production - a bizarre lifestyle plug for TB12. TB no longer focuses on Peyton Manning, his battle is against time. Imagine a QB with 8 rings playing until age 46. What a sales tool.

    BB put an end to that - the part he has authority over. He could have done this anytime for years. But it just so happened to be now.
    Yes but AG in the past was mainly focused on Brady, maybe one or two other Patriots. The past 2 years the number of Patriots signing up has grown significantly. This is where the conflict of interest really came into play. Now you have a dozen or more players looking to AG on the sidelines, in games, asking his advice and ignoring team doctors. That hasn't been the case in years past. It was now. It became a conflict of interest. BB nipped it before it became even bigger. He didn't ban AG from facilities (just certain rooms) and did not ban any player from using him. He just wants AG out of his staffs way. In the past if Brady or 1 or 2 other players wanted to ignore the staff and follow AG that's one thing...But when it's trending to half the team, its a problem. He took care of it. Wasn't a Brady issue.

    City of Champions

  9. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakmont_4 View Post
    Yes but AG in the past was mainly focused on Brady, maybe one or two other Patriots. The past 2 years the number of Patriots signing up has grown significantly. This is where the conflict of interest really came into play. Now you have a dozen or more players looking to AG on the sidelines, in games, asking his advice and ignoring team doctors. That hasn't been the case in years past. It was now. It became a conflict of interest. BB nipped it before it became even bigger. He didn't ban AG from facilities (just certain rooms) and did not ban any player from using him. He just wants AG out of his staffs way. In the past if Brady or 1 or 2 other players wanted to ignore the staff and follow AG that's one thing...But when it's trending to half the team, its a problem. He took care of it. Wasn't a Brady issue.
    Well if this started to ramp up about two years ago (your time line is pretty close to what I have heard), BB must have noticed. He might have even become a bit upset, but figured - not worth the trouble it could cause. What event pushed the apple cart over? So BB got active because of more of the same, or because of a percipitating event? Time may not tell.
    I am not a con artist! I am a businessman! I have a big brain and I'm good at making deals! People are just jealous of my BIG BRAIN! BAD!

    Guess who? The future X-Presdent...

  10. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    No one? You mean the trioka?

    Reporters often get comments off the record. How could Bedard, Zolack and all rest have a similar opinion of what was going on in Foxboro - since the 3 sphinx were not talking.
    Really? LOL! I didn't just fall off the turnip truck. Try telling me something I don't already know because you haven't as of yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    Trump is an abomination. Fox is full of lies. Other networks swing to one side or another but actually manage to get the news out. Funny how the majority of people prefer the real news, not the turd Fox passes out.

    Hatred for Trump comes from many directions. When you speak of him speak of his Administration because he does very little actual work, just watches Fox and Friends, tweets, and says stuff like a "clean DACA bill is what we want".
    If you vote, you're part of the political system and Trump is therefore your president because he won the political election. I don't vote. None of them have the answer, the names change but the problems remain the same. Trump? Hillary? Is that best the system has to offer you? No thanks. Every time you watch the news you're being misled.

    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    Communists? What's that left over from your 11th grade American History class?
    That point isn't hard to follow but you missed it evidently.

  11. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    Zolack says BB will not leave - which I agree with.

    He also says 80% of the issues brought up between RK, TB, and BB in the 4 letter article and local reporters are true.

    One would expect that a game broadcaster, media member and x-player that needs the good faith of the Patriots must be awfully sure of his opinion because it will profit him nothing.
    We'll see where he is next year if he's bitten the hand that feeds him.

  12. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by TKO View Post
    Really? LOL! I didn't just fall off the turnip truck. Try telling me something I don't already know because you haven't as of yet.
    Well then you haven't really been able to express all that you know because I have simply been replying to what you have written.

    If you vote, you're part of the political system and Trump is therefore your president because he won the political election.
    No. I don't accept the idea of the EC. It's the only election in the country where the popular vote doesn't count. I can't support any system where votes are in effect devalued or totally ignored. Trump lost the election by 3 million votes despite Trumps failed and aborted attempt to disprove the results.

    I don't vote. None of them have the answer, the names change but the problems remain the same. Trump? Hillary? Is that best the system has to offer you? No thanks. Every time you watch the news you're being misled.
    So sorry but an arch defeatist attitude does nothing, and dispirits action from those you effect - if any.

    That point isn't hard to follow but you missed it evidently.
    The fact that you cannot communicate clearly says nothing about my ability to perceive and understand. Since you claim not to care, why the effort in an area you have washed your hands of? That certainly makes little sense.
    Last edited by bagwell368; 01-11-2018 at 10:58 PM.
    I am not a con artist! I am a businessman! I have a big brain and I'm good at making deals! People are just jealous of my BIG BRAIN! BAD!

    Guess who? The future X-Presdent...

  13. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by TKO View Post
    We'll see where he is next year if he's bitten the hand that feeds him.
    Very popular with the fans, probably be just where he is now.
    I am not a con artist! I am a businessman! I have a big brain and I'm good at making deals! People are just jealous of my BIG BRAIN! BAD!

    Guess who? The future X-Presdent...

  14. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    Well if this started to ramp up about two years ago (your time line is pretty close to what I have heard), BB must have noticed. He might have even become a bit upset, but figured - not worth the trouble it could cause. What event pushed the apple cart over? So BB got active because of more of the same, or because of a percipitating event? Time may not tell.
    The medical staffs complaints. It's been reported.

    City of Champions

  15. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    No. I don't accept the idea of the EC. It's the only election in the country where the popular vote doesn't count. I can't support any system where votes are in effect devalued or totally ignored. Trump lost the election by 3 million votes despite Trumps failed and aborted attempt to disprove the results.
    Yeah, it's only worked for decades on decades but when we don't get our way we cry about it. We get it man. It's been over a year. Get over it. It's not going to change in your life time.

    You want to talk about corrupt elections why don't you worry about your own parties nomination process. Talk about corrupt...The Democratic party presidential primaries the biggest joke in this country.

    City of Champions

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