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  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valleyfella View Post
    I have no doubt there are tensions inside the organization but there is a lot in the story that screams "click bait" something I've felt with some of Wickersham's other articles. He also gets some of his facts wrong. Add that Peter King says that Kraft was genuinely furious at the idea he interfered and point blank denied that a meeting to discuss Jimmy G took place and the article is on less solid ground. I'm sure Wickersham got some of it right but enough wrong that it's anyone's guess as to which is which.
    Maybe that's because RK understands it was a wretched deal and doesn't want egg on his face? If he actually did order the code red (one of the worst NFL trades in recent memory) I would imagine it's awfully embarrassing for such an esteemed owner.

  2. #92
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    According to Terry Pluto of Cleveland.com, the Browns were willing to trade the Texans’ first-round pick and “other goodies” to the Patriots in return for QB Jimmy Garoppolo.

    Beyond that, former executive Sashi Brown would also have been willing to help New England shop around for a backup quarterback to help the trade work.

    However, the Patriots ultimately decided to trade Garoppolo before last year’s deadline to the 49ers in return for a 2018 second-round pick.

    The Texans wound up finishing the year with a record of 4-12 and secure the No. 4 overall pick in the draft. Meanwhile, the Patriots should end up with the No. 43 overall pick as part of their deal with the 49ers.

    Pluto says that the Browns’ front office was “especially baffled” because they had completed two trades with New England in the past.

    According to Pluto, Cleveland actually last spoke with the Patriots on October 28, which was just a few days before the trade deadline, but they couldn’t even get trade talks started and New England told them Garoppolo wasn’t available.
    Nothing to see here folks. That'd be the #4 pick in the 1st round.

    So obvious guys: Kraft said keep TB move JG, Belichick dealt Jimmy to a favorable destination where he'll thrive so BB is vindicated.
    Last edited by elements1985; 01-08-2018 at 05:03 PM.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by elements1985 View Post
    Nothing to see here folks. That'd be the #4 pick in the 1st round.

    So obvious guys: Kraft said keep TB move JG, Belichick dealt Jimmy to a favorable destination where he'll thrive so BB is vindicated.
    Keep drinking that Kool Aid bud.

    BB didn't trade to Jimmy to CLE for obvious reasons.

    1. CLE is in the AFC - Meaning we'd face him much more often than if he went to the NFC. By trading him to SF, we only face him once every 4 years. BB probably only has to face him 1 time for the rest of his career.

    2. At the trade deadline HOU was 3-3 and still the favorite to win the AFC South. Everything went downhill afterwards, so unless BB had a crystal ball, he probably didn't see much difference between a late first vs. an early second (SF was the 2nd worst team in the NFL at the time). History has also shown BB favors second round picks over late first round picks (for contractual reasons)

    3. SF agreed to cut Hoyer post trade which benefitted BB and the Patriots. He was essentially part of the trade. BB got a QB he was familiar with and could walk right in knowing the system and had familiarity with the team...Something no other QB in the league had. By cutting Hoyer - the Patriots got to sign him to a contract that was more team friendly...Double win.

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  4. #94
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    This is the quintessential "they hate us cuz they ain't us" response. No logic or countering facts, just discredit the source.
    When has ESPN ever been at the forefront of major breaking news with the Patriots without being grossly wrong? Let's start there.

    Let's suppose the Wickersham report is nothing but a hit piece designed to placate a jealous and bitter national audience:

    A) We're supposed to believe the most prepared organization in sports, lead by a coach who ruminates over the freaking 53rd roster spot, just whimsically moved one of the most treasured assets in all of sports for a measly 2nd round pick? No negotiations with other NFC franchises, just a quick and decisive 10 minute call to Lynch? I don't believe that.
    One of the most treasured assets in pro sports? You're absolutely out of your mind. Pre 5-0 Jimmy was hardly that. Was he a nice prospect with upside? Of course. Did he have plenty of questions marks? YES. Youre assumptions that no other teams were spoken to is merely speculation so I won't comment on it. Other than, you have no idea who BB did or didn't talk to. I'm willing to bet only a handful of people in Gillette even know.

    B) How do you explain the disparate local reports that tie into the ESPN piece? If Belichick and Brady are under contract for the foreseeable future, team just coming off a 13-3 season in a garbage division, why would Tom Curran report that air around this 2017 season has an “end of the party” scent to it? Just because the OC & DC could be departing? Alternatively, you don't think the departure of coaches (like McDaniel's) reflect a pulse within the organization on the team's future?
    Probably because he's not wrong, but not for the reasons you speculate. We can all undoubtedly say this dynasty is coming to an end. They no longer have a 5, 10, 15 year window. They're unequivocally in the 1-3 year range. That's blatantly obvious and hardly great reporting.

    C) You don't see the Guerrero-Belichick conflict as a battle within a broader organizational war (for lack of a better term)? Since 2000, the entire ethos of the franchise has been "next man up, nobody is bigger than the team". Meanwhile you had the star quarterback and his business partner entrenched in the Patriots locker room, giving alternative medical advice, and undermining the FT training staff and coach. And that same star quarterback (allegedly, this detail is muddy) campaigned to the owner to have his chief competitor moved?
    Speculation, speculation, speculation. You have no idea what happened other than BB told a non employee he can't be on the sidelines and no longer has unlimited access to their facilities. Was Tom Brady happy about it? Probably not. Did Tom Brady understand where BB was coming from? Probably. Is this the first time Tom Brady was unhappy with a BB decision? Highly unlikely.

    This isn't hyperbole: the Garappolo deal was one of the worst trades I've seen in my lifetime (at least in terms of a mismanaged asset). If you're expecting me to believe the shrewdest and most brilliant football mind just flippantly rolled out of bed and consummated that because time had run out, you are drinking the Kool Aid my friend.
    What team was going to give up 3 first rounders for a QB about to make $20+ million and had started 2 NFL games? Please tell me.

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  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by TKO View Post
    According to reports, the guru was giving advice to other players that was contrary to BB's policies. No conspiracy there.
    ...and had been doing so for years. He had legal issues. Reputation issues. He's been here since McGinest brought him in, and all those years, and whacky TB ideas, and not a peep. All of a sudden something changed. Right. BB is pissed TB influenced BK to act outside of BB's designs.

    Thanks for bringing it up.
    I am not a con artist! I am a businessman! I have a big brain and I'm good at making deals! People are just jealous of my BIG BRAIN! BAD!

    Guess who? The future X-Presdent...

  6. #96
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    It comes down to this in my eyes. BB did not trade Jimmy in the offseason because he wanted to see how Brady was going to hold up this season. When Brady signed his last contract it was structured to resolve the rest of his playing days by this season. Brady's contract jumps to $22 million next year - either he was going to be washed up and cut/traded or if he still looked good they'd renegotiate his contract. Jimmy was the ready and willing successor if Brady was looking at the end of his road.

    Well, when it all came to fruition, the Patriots won both bets. Brady was playing at an MVP level at the trade deadline and Jimmy looked like a legit starter. Brady is still the superior QB though. Jimmy was unwilling to take a deal in the $16-18mil neck of the woods and wanted top dollar and a starting job (don't blame him).

    Over the course of the season (this season) - BB gave himself time to sort it out. In the end, he kept the QB who was better, he had history with, and is going to be on a cheaper contract.

    Let's look at Brady's pay year by year.

    2000 - $200k - .3% of cap
    2001 - $300k (Super Bowl) - .5% of cap
    2002 - $1M (9-7) - 1.5% of cap
    2003 - $3.3M (Super Bowl) - 4.4% of cap
    2004 - $5M (Super Bowl) - 6.3% of cap
    2005 - $8.4M - 9.9% of cap
    2006 - $13.8M (AFCCG) - 13.6% of cap
    2007 - $7.3M (Super Bowl) - 6.7% of cap
    2008 - $14.6M (Injury) - 12.6% of cap
    2009 - $14.6M - 11.9% of cap
    2010 - $17.4M - UNCAPPED YEAR
    2011 - $13.2M (Super Bowl) - 11% of cap
    2012 - $8M (AFCCG) - 6.6% of cap
    2013 - $13.8M (AFCCG) - 11.2% of cap
    2014 - $14.8M (Super Bowl) - 11.1% of cap
    2015 - $14M (AFCCG) - 9.8% of cap
    2016 - $13.7M (Super Bowl) - 8.9% of cap
    2017 - $14M - 8.4% of cap

    Why is this important? Brady has never made more than 13.6% of the cap. (worth mentioning the 3 highest years, 2006, 2008, 2009, probably 2 of the worst talented teams in that bunch) At $18Mil per year Garropollo would be making about 11% of the cap. Jimmy wouldn't settle for $18 mil (per reports). More than likely he's getting $22 mil +. At $22 mil he's at 13% of the cap...Anything more than that would be the most BB has EVER paid a QB. A QB who has 2 NFL starts nonetheless.

    Rather than pay an unproven QB more than he'd ever paid his HOF QB currently on his roster, he started to talk to Brady and Brady to Kraft about how long he intended to play. With Brady keen on playing longer, and still putting up MVP numbers...BB decided that if Garropollo was going to force the issue on getting PAID and being a STARTER he decided to move him and stick with Brady...

    Brady, who more than likely will enter a final contract negotiation with the patriots this offseason, will CUT his cap number down and sign more a modest 8-11% of the cap as he has his ENTIRE career. Something Garoppollo showed he was UNWILLING to do.

    History backs this cap ideology as well. NO SB WINNING TEAM HAS PAID A QB MORE THAN $20MIL. Here's the last 10.

    2016 - Brady
    2015 - Manning - $15M (took paycut to help team fill roster)
    2014 - Brady
    2013 - Flacco (got contract after this win)
    2012 - E Manning - $9.6M
    2011 - Rodgers - $7.7M
    2010 - Brees - $10.6M
    2009 - Rothlisberger - $7.9M
    2008 - Brady
    2007 - Manning - $10.5M

    BB knows you can't pay a QB more than 15% of your cap and have a roster good enough to win. Brady knows this as well. Garoppollo was unwilling to work with Bill on the numbers as Brady was and BB finally pulled the trigger.

    With Brady still playing at an MVP level. Jimmy about to walk, BB salvaged what he could and traded him far away from NE so he wouldn't have to play him but 1 maybe 2 times his entire career. Bill can look to draft and develop another QB over the next 2 years while Brady is still around just like he did with Jimmy. He essentially punted his back up plan...As he should have.

    Look for Brady to restructure his contract so the next 2-3 seasons BB can really load up because Brady's cap hit will be in the single digits of cap %.
    Last edited by Oakmont_4; 01-08-2018 at 07:01 PM.

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  7. #97
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    One thing not lost on me is the Cleveland/Belichick connection. Sure, BB has no problem making a deal with them when he knows it won't change their outlook, but Jimmy was a different story because he's a difference maker. Belichick wasn't doing that city any favors because he remembers how they they rode him out of town on a rail.

    I think it played a role in the trade.

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakmont_4 View Post
    It comes down to this in my eyes. BB did not trade Jimmy in the offseason because he wanted to see how Brady was going to hold up this season. When Brady signed his last contract it was structured to resolve the rest of his playing days by this season. Brady's contract jumps to $22 million next year - either he was going to be washed up and cut/traded or if he still looked good they'd renegotiate his contract. Jimmy was the ready and willing successor if Brady was looking at the end of his road.

    Well, when it all came to fruition, the Patriots won both bets. Brady was playing at an MVP level at the trade deadline and Jimmy looked like a legit starter. Brady is still the superior QB though. Jimmy was unwilling to take a deal in the $16-18mil neck of the woods and wanted top dollar and a starting job (don't blame him).

    Over the course of the season (this season) - BB gave himself time to sort it out. In the end, he kept the QB who was better, he had history with, and is going to be on a cheaper contract.

    The Pats restructured Brady's last deal to minimize the hit he took for the suspension so IMO he'll be open to a team friendly deal. In the end, and if Brady stays healthy, they'll probably get the better Qb over the next four years at a much cheaper price, and that makes a difference when you want to win SBs and not draw fans in to fill the seats.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    ...and had been doing so for years. He had legal issues. Reputation issues. He's been here since McGinest brought him in, and all those years, and whacky TB ideas, and not a peep. All of a sudden something changed. Right. BB is pissed TB influenced BK to act outside of BB's designs.

    Thanks for bringing it up.
    You have no idea how it went down. Maybe Belichick got sick of Guererro politicking on the plane or on the sidelines, or maybe the fame from his association with Brady went to his head and he acted like an untouchable pain in the butt to the Pats real staff.

    Whatever the reason, he's gone and it didn't get challenged by Kraft.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by TKO View Post
    LOL! The only reason you can call it PR mode is because they had to speak about what they term "a fictional account." Who cares if the story has been around? Consider the source.
    Again you avoid that there are a number of locals with these reports before E**N. Is it so painful to admit that?

    What does it prove when no one knows what the actual dynamic is between the three FO personalities?
    Lots of people know. Wives, very close friends, coaches, FO people. What do you think these guys are all in white robes with nary a negative thought?

    IMO, Kraft is a fan and an owner, I'd bet the house he wants to know a lot about what BB does because he's interested, as we all are, and because he and Jonathan can file it away for future reference when BB retires.
    Sure they want to know. But its doubtful either of the Krafts could craft a decent write up on a college kid at the combine. There is no way they can access what BB knows in any deep way. They can ask - why are we weak against the run. BB can give a few high level comments and a platitude, and that's it.

    Future reference? Why so when BB talks coach speak which sounds like what Snoopy hears they can differentiate it from another coach? They can judge he meta messages, body language, etc. but the content? Please it's a ludicrous concept.

    You have no idea how much BB talks to Bob about stuff he does but it doesn't mean he's miffed about doing it. Bob is in the war room during the draft and he ain't making decisions there.
    I'm sure they talk a lot about "stuff" but when it comes to the nuts and bolts of why cut this guy vs this that guy - unless the player is say a rapist - or very expensive, then even you know they have no input to BB - until now.

    Right. Bob is in the war room and he AIN'T making decisions there. There you go. Truth. FInally.
    I am not a con artist! I am a businessman! I have a big brain and I'm good at making deals! People are just jealous of my BIG BRAIN! BAD!

    Guess who? The future X-Presdent...

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by TKO View Post
    From BB's mouth today in reply to Reiss about this story,

    "We've been through this before Mike" then went on to say, I'm not commenting on inaccurate, baseless, unattributable and random comments that you want to report on.

    I guess that seals the deal.
    Hahahahahhahahahahah.

    Since when is BB known for being forthcoming?

    Troll alert.
    I am not a con artist! I am a businessman! I have a big brain and I'm good at making deals! People are just jealous of my BIG BRAIN! BAD!

    Guess who? The future X-Presdent...

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by TKO View Post
    Rapoport tweet:

    Patriots coach Bill Belichick tells reporters he “absolutely” plans to coach New England next season.
    You forgot to mention the mortally laconic manner he did it in, with the ridiculously long pause.

    The only direction the venom is coming is from BB, and TB is the target. Even a blind bat can make that out.
    I am not a con artist! I am a businessman! I have a big brain and I'm good at making deals! People are just jealous of my BIG BRAIN! BAD!

    Guess who? The future X-Presdent...

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by TKO View Post
    All they did was win SBs after trading the untradeable Seymour, Mankins, Chandler Jones and Collins. And we can add Jimmy at some point IMO.
    Please. How many years did it take after Seymour and Mankins. How many guys left on the roster in '14?
    I am not a con artist! I am a businessman! I have a big brain and I'm good at making deals! People are just jealous of my BIG BRAIN! BAD!

    Guess who? The future X-Presdent...

  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by TKO View Post
    What about Bruschi? A Patriot for life just like Brady will be. Dick LeBeau is still coaching at 80, Scarneccia is about to turn 70, Belichick is 65 so I think he can stick around as long as Brady does even if it's five more years.
    Will the density cease? GM and HC is a far cry from an OL Coach that already retired once. 5 more years for Brady?

    In the words of Bugs Bunny - what a maroon.
    I am not a con artist! I am a businessman! I have a big brain and I'm good at making deals! People are just jealous of my BIG BRAIN! BAD!

    Guess who? The future X-Presdent...

  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakmont_4 View Post
    I can't believe so many people here bought into this nonsensical BS article by a no good political/TMZ network.
    I can't believe people that know there was a lot of local reporting well before the piece refuse to admit that.
    I am not a con artist! I am a businessman! I have a big brain and I'm good at making deals! People are just jealous of my BIG BRAIN! BAD!

    Guess who? The future X-Presdent...

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