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  1. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by BDawk4Prez View Post
    Bridge sucks. Id say him and Keenum coming in the season were pretty comparable.
    Based on what? Limited stats in an offense built around Adrian Peterson with a shaky offensive line...2 seasons ago?
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

  2. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullseyed View Post
    Well, if not for injuries the Giants could have been good enough to win the division away from the Eagles. If not for the Zeke suspension stuff, the Cowboys may have played better and contended as well.

    The idea was the wildcards would have been a battle between the Vikings, Saints, Panthers, Cowboys and Eagles, most likely.

    The most unexpected thing was Seattle not getting a free ride to their division. Second was probably the Falcons, Saints and Panthers all putting up decent years at the same time. Third was the Giants getting every guy injured. Fourth was probably a toss-up between the Cowboys having issues and the Eagles not having issues.


    Looking at it from that perspective, I'd say the McVay thing is the most convincing. Yes, Seattle was hurt, but I think the Rams probably could have taken the division even if Seattle was healthy. If this year's Eagles had to contend with last year's Giants? Eh.


    Regardless... if we look at the candidates mostly being discussed:

    - Eagles - stacked team
    - Rams - stacked team
    - Vikings - stacked team
    - Jaguars - stacked team outside of QB + Bortles RNG
    - Bils - shoestrings and chewing gum


    It's a homer pick for me, but I think the Bills coach is the biggest impact on success relative to those other teams.

    But since the site and this thread are dominated by Eagles fans this year: which is it? Is Wentz really good or is his coach the coach of the year?
    I wouldn't say the Bills are that bad, though. They don't have the talent level of other rosters in the playoffs but there is still a solid core. Plus they only went 9-7 and backed into the playoffs. Regardless it was a good season but it's not shocking they snuck in.
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  3. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullseyed View Post
    Well, if not for injuries the Giants could have been good enough to win the division away from the Eagles. If not for the Zeke suspension stuff, the Cowboys may have played better and contended as well.
    The Giants were bad before anyone if note got injured. They were 0-4 and in the process of losing to the only other 0-4 team, when Beckham got injured.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bullseyed View Post
    But since the site and this thread are dominated by Eagles fans this year: which is it? Is Wentz really good or is his coach the coach of the year?
    Wentz.

    But I always maintain that coaches are much less important to a team's success than the talent on the roster. Notable exceptions are guys like Belichick but he is responsible for the whole Patriots organization that is much more important than him as an individual. If he went elsewhere it would take him years to replicate that. Pretty much every other coach is responsible for not hamstringing the players. See the 2017 49ers with Garoppolo starting compared to Hoyer/Beathard. Kyle Shanahan is a good offensive coach, but was 1-10 without a QB.

    So Doug Pederson isn't some great coach. Personally I just think he has done more than the guy who will likely win in McVay. Both improved their teams by 6 or 7 wins, except Pederson actually improved upon his own work and had to deal with significant injuries, too. I can also point to specific decisions that won games, for example going for it on 4th down in the Raiders game instead of kicking a FG.
    Last edited by QB_Eagles; 01-03-2018 at 02:50 PM.

  4. #109
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    Mike Zimmer should be the coach of the year with McVay likely coming in second. Please tell me another coach who could lead their team to a 13-3 record with their 3rd string QB and backup RB's?

  5. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by BDawk4Prez View Post
    Agree. Teddy is brutal.
    This isn't the thread to have this discussion but Teddy was far from brutal. Sure, I'll agree he was not a stud but he was above average with limited talent around him in an offense that simply failed. No doubt in my mind that had he stayed healthy he would be putting up the same kind of stats as Case.

  6. #111
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    How about Bridgewater going to the Titans? Mariota and Bortles are two of the worst playoff quarterbacks in recent memory. (I'm not counting Foles because he's the backup who's starting due to injury.)

  7. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by pacofunk64 View Post
    Mike Zimmer should be the coach of the year with McVay likely coming in second. Please tell me another coach who could lead their team to a 13-3 record with their 3rd string QB and backup RB's?
    Latavius Murray was a starting RB the previous 3 seasons though and the defense as in place as one of the best.
    2018 SUPER BOWL CHAMPIONS
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  8. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by QB_Eagles View Post
    White made Darby redundant,

    They've got another starting CB
    Then the CB they traded for would have also been redundant.

    Quote Originally Posted by QB_Eagles View Post
    But then what tanking team would trade picks for Kelvin Benjamin?
    217 yards in 6 games? 1 TD?

    Sounds like a tank-team WR to me. But he's basically been injured, which makes a lot of sense for the trade. Get a guy who might be good in a year or two, but probably won't do anything this year.
    First 4 years:
    Brown - 54 GP, 27 GS, 261 catches (63.3%) for 3,561 yds (8.6 AVG), 15 TD
    Landry - 64 GP, 57 GS, 400 catches (70.2%) for 4,038 yds (10.1 AVG), 22 TD

    Huh. Wonder why Landry is getting paid so much...

    "Hater" is a term used by weak minded people in the face of legitimate criticism.
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  9. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikingsfan0845 View Post
    I wouldn't say the Bills are that bad, though. They don't have the talent level of other rosters in the playoffs but there is still a solid core. Plus they only went 9-7 and backed into the playoffs. Regardless it was a good season but it's not shocking they snuck in.
    As a Bills fan the only player I'd get mad if traded somewhere else is T'D White. Everybody could be upgraded on pretty easily.

    Like... outside of Bortles, the Jags are probably a better team at every position. Shrug.
    First 4 years:
    Brown - 54 GP, 27 GS, 261 catches (63.3%) for 3,561 yds (8.6 AVG), 15 TD
    Landry - 64 GP, 57 GS, 400 catches (70.2%) for 4,038 yds (10.1 AVG), 22 TD

    Huh. Wonder why Landry is getting paid so much...

    "Hater" is a term used by weak minded people in the face of legitimate criticism.
    -Scott van Pelt

  10. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by QB_Eagles View Post
    Wentz.

    But I always maintain that coaches are much less important to a team's success than the talent on the roster. Notable exceptions are guys like Belichick but he is responsible for the whole Patriots organization that is much more important than him as an individual. If he went elsewhere it would take him years to replicate that. Pretty much every other coach is responsible for not hamstringing the players. See the 2017 49ers with Garoppolo starting compared to Hoyer/Beathard. Kyle Shanahan is a good offensive coach, but was 1-10 without a QB.

    So Doug Pederson isn't some great coach. Personally I just think he has done more than the guy who will likely win in McVay. Both improved their teams by 6 or 7 wins, except Pederson actually improved upon his own work and had to deal with significant injuries, too. I can also point to specific decisions that won games, for example going for it on 4th down in the Raiders game instead of kicking a FG.
    I think Jim Schwartz > Doug Pederson in terms of impact to the team.
    First 4 years:
    Brown - 54 GP, 27 GS, 261 catches (63.3%) for 3,561 yds (8.6 AVG), 15 TD
    Landry - 64 GP, 57 GS, 400 catches (70.2%) for 4,038 yds (10.1 AVG), 22 TD

    Huh. Wonder why Landry is getting paid so much...

    "Hater" is a term used by weak minded people in the face of legitimate criticism.
    -Scott van Pelt

  11. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by pacofunk64 View Post
    This isn't the thread to have this discussion but Teddy was far from brutal. Sure, I'll agree he was not a stud but he was above average with limited talent around him in an offense that simply failed. No doubt in my mind that had he stayed healthy he would be putting up the same kind of stats as Case.
    Same? Gtfo.

  12. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by BDawk4Prez View Post
    Same? Gtfo.
    Keenum is a sporting a 67.6% 3547 yards and 22/7 ratio in 15 games. Those #'s wouldn't be very hard to replicate. Prior to this season he never threw more than 9 TDs in a season. You trying to say Keenum was equal to Teddy prior to this season is one of the dumbest things I've read on here.
    2018 Vikings Draft :
    Round 1: Mike Hughes CB UCF
    Round 2: Brian O'Neill OT Pittsburgh
    Round 4: Jalyn Holmes DE Ohio State
    Round 5: Tyler Conklin TE Central Michigan
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    Round 6: Colby Gossett G Appalachian State
    Round 6: Ade Aruna DE Tulane
    Round 7: Devante Downs LB California


  13. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by pacofunk64 View Post
    Mike Zimmer should be the coach of the year with McVay likely coming in second. Please tell me another coach who could lead their team to a 13-3 record with their 3rd string QB and backup RB's?
    I'll go with McVay just because the Rams were 4-12 last year, but Zimmer has done an excellent job as well.

  14. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullseyed View Post
    As a Bills fan the only player I'd get mad if traded somewhere else is T'D White. Everybody could be upgraded on pretty easily.

    Like... outside of Bortles, the Jags are probably a better team at every position. Shrug.
    Sure but that doesn't make them bad players either. Shady, Benjamin, Incognito, Williams, Hyde and White are pretty good players. No one is going to be overly impressed but with some good coaching (like they got this year) they could sneak into the playoffs like they did. If he took a roster like the Colts or Browns to a 9-7 and the playoffs then we have a real discussion.
    2018 Vikings Draft :
    Round 1: Mike Hughes CB UCF
    Round 2: Brian O'Neill OT Pittsburgh
    Round 4: Jalyn Holmes DE Ohio State
    Round 5: Tyler Conklin TE Central Michigan
    Round 5: Daniel Carlson K Auburn
    Round 6: Colby Gossett G Appalachian State
    Round 6: Ade Aruna DE Tulane
    Round 7: Devante Downs LB California


  15. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by BDawk4Prez View Post
    Same? Gtfo.
    With a worse cast and different offense in 2015 we were still able to put up 1.98 (14th) points per drive and were also 14th in yards per drive. This season with Case, an improved WR core, an improved oline, and a much better play caller we are at 8th in both with 2.11 points per drive.

    We have clearly improved a little bit but we are talking a team with Mike Wallace as top WR and one of the worst olines in the league (Teddy was pressured at the highest rate of any QB according to FO in 2015, it was horrible). We did have AP but the running game this year wasn't that bad and it actually was an issue with AP/Norv/Teddy imo because Teddy's style did not fit well with an AP type RB (and we were able to become more of a quick passing offense as opposed to running the ball hard setting up play action from behind center). Shurmur does deserve a lot of credit too as I think most in MN can see how great he has been, he likely gets a job for his work here.

    So basically considering 2 years ago Teddy had this team ready to win it's first playoff game since I think 09 (until the missed kick) and was leading a much lesser offense to slightly lesser results I would say there is at least an argument to be made that if you think he could just not drop off due to the injury he could play this well with this team/situation. Theilan/Diggs (I think was rookie Teddy's year), a completely revamped oline (no more Khalil/Clemmings, YAY!) and a pretty big offensive coordinator change all are reasons to think that he could improve (at least statistically) of his 2nd season at age 23.

    We have to wait and see if he can get back to where he was and start growing from there or not though.

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