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  1. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    I posted a video in this thread. Tell me how those stats translate onto the court..if you can do that, then I will understand your stat argument
    Players have an awareness of the talent around them and it influences their decisions on the court. It's why KD was easier to lock down than Bron when both had far more similarly talented squads throughout their careers. Only kd has an unfathomable amount of talent, despite his great Iso skills, there's a reason his efficiency faltered without the teams best player

  2. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    Are there 50 examples of this 1v1 of him against Lebron? 30? How many of these situations did Durant win over Lebron with just 1v1 etc in these examples? Most of the time they aren't matched up etc. lol. Again you aren't even using just isolation plays you show a youtube clip of mostly them not on each other going ISO and call it a day.

    6 games is not a small sample? Sorry I guess EXTREMELY small sample would have been better. All of this with Durant in the specific situation you keep ignoring. Not only that but it isn't full games of them going ISO but instead many different types of situations that don't relate to the topic.

    Yup they are and that plays into why one might have an advantage when going ISO.

    KD was all of these things before the Warriors so why not the same level of success in ISO? Everyone else can understand it is his situation that has changed except for you I guess...
    I would ignore stats too if Im not even aware of what constitutes a statistically relevant sample. Can't blame him for that one. At least when I dabble with them, I don't make grandiose claims lol.

  3. #198
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    KD is in the conversation but I have a feeling curry has had enough of taking a back seat and firmly establishes himself as the games best player after these playoffs. Bron will be 2nd for the first time since Kobe or KG or something

  4. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    This one's different. What LeBron did to curry in 2016 is exactly what kd is doing to LeBron

    Its not that kd won. It's HOW he won. He exerted himself as the dominant player in the LeBron kd matchup.
    That is what I am saying I disagree with lol. This wasn't even remotely close to the same thing but what was the same and got people doing the same thing in the past is that he won the title. Lebron was insane in both finals while Curry was pretty poor in 16 so not sure how that is comparable.

    Durant was not the main creator. He was not the best offensive or defensive player on his own team. The other team was more concerned with another player (Curry than him). I can go on and on in explaining the context again but here is where I likely differ on this with you: Durant is more like KYRIE than Lebron from a style/attention/creating standpoint and benefited in the finals as scorer like we have actually seen from Kyrie kinda. All those things about creating, best player, most attention all go to Curry/Lebron at the benefit of these scorers (and I believe you have argued moreso for players next to Curry). It makes their games easier and it is a major reason we saw Durant numbers boost like that (think of the example of people running out of the lane to guard Curry while KD had the ball and could walk it to a layup).

    Don't get me wrong he is obviously better than Kyrie as an individual player but his surroundings were a huge factor in that success. His role as more of a scorer is more like how Kyrie was just with a better player getting a few more touches due to that and no Lebron.

  5. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chronz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    This is basically what I am saying to him while also pointing to the stats. He just continues to talk about what his eyes are seeing so I am bringing up a past example of him doing the same thing midway through that finals
    He's just talking about Iso from what I can gather, is it really that important? We already know kd benefits in all aspects of his game in how he can pick and choose his moments thx to a cast he doesn't need to carry. The opposite of Bron. The finals showed how fresh kd came into 4 th quarters vs Bron having to expend far more energy just to keep it close.
    He was at first only talking ISO and laughing it off while ignoring all this context being brought up and ignoring the stats mentioned etc. I was just calling him out for ignoring everything people brought

  6. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chronz View Post
    You can be a loser with a championship ring if the team you joined has already won without you. Him winning didn't validate **** because we all know how he did it. It was literally record setting the likes of which will never be possible again.

    My eyes say it's still easily Bron and I make no apologies for having more than just my eyes at my disposal and neither will anyone else. Just agree to disagree cuz there is no argument left.
    Thereís plenty argument left, but Iíll just let time back my argument up. Only a matter of time, as Iím sure everyone knows deep down

    Itís like this.
    Is lebron capable of defending kd? No
    Is kd capable of defending lebron? Yes
    Can lebron get any shot he wants vs kd? No
    Can kd get any shot he want vs lebron? Yes

    Why would I care what stats say? Bigger question, why would YOU care?

  7. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    Thereís plenty argument left, but Iíll just let time back my argument up. Only a matter of time, as Iím sure everyone knows deep down

    Itís like this.
    Is lebron capable of defending kd? No
    Is kd capable of defending lebron? Yes
    Can lebron get any shot he wants vs kd? No
    Can kd get any shot he want vs lebron? Yes

    Why would I care what stats say? Bigger question, why would YOU care?
    lol

  8. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    Thereís plenty argument left, but Iíll just let time back my argument up. Only a matter of time, as Iím sure everyone knows deep down

    Itís like this.
    Is lebron capable of defending kd? No
    Is kd capable of defending lebron? Yes
    Can lebron get any shot he wants vs kd? No
    Can kd get any shot he want vs lebron? Yes

    Why would I care what stats say? Bigger question, why would YOU care?
    Here's the thing, why would I care about what you perceive to be a 1 on 1 affair when what I value is the influence a player has on the entire landscape of the court. Idc about your subjective take on shot creation. I remember when I thought the NBA was like street ball tho

  9. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chronz View Post
    Here's the thing, why would I care about what you perceive to be a 1 on 1 affair when what I value is the influence a player has on the entire landscape of the court. Idc about your subjective take on shot creation. I remember when I thought the NBA was like street ball tho
    You donít have to value the 1 on 1 aspect, thatís fine. I myself claim curryís better than Durant even tho heís clearly not the same caliber iso player

  10. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddletramp View Post
    lol
    Nastynice is off base with his angle on stats, but that aside, what did you disagree with there? Would love to hear it.

    Sent from my Note 8 using Tapatalk

  11. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    You donít have to value the 1 on 1 aspect, thatís fine. I myself claim curryís better than Durant even tho heís clearly not the same caliber iso player
    That's because ISO is just one aspect of offense, and offense is only a part of the game.

    I myself claim Curry is better than LeBron even though he's clearly not the same rim attacker.

    Sent from my Note 8 using Tapatalk

  12. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    You donít have to value the 1 on 1 aspect, thatís fine. I myself claim curryís better than Durant even tho heís clearly not the same caliber iso player
    So then what are you guys arguing? Quite frankly its sad that KD had to join the Dubs at this stage in his career, its like he knew even facing a declining Bron wasn't enough of an advantage, he had to join the one team in history that could ever win without him at this level. Such cowardice shall never be ignored no matter how much you want to focus on the irrelevant 1v1 perception. Facts are, KD will need to prove alot more to be seen in that rarified air.

  13. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chronz View Post
    So then what are you guys arguing? Quite frankly its sad that KD had to join the Dubs at this stage in his career, its like he knew even facing a declining Bron wasn't enough of an advantage, he had to join the one team in history that could ever win without him at this level. Such cowardice shall never be ignored no matter how much you want to focus on the irrelevant 1v1 perception. Facts are, KD will need to prove alot more to be seen in that rarified air.
    I have no clue, I been specifically speaking of the two in terms of being matched up

    As far as overall legacy LeBron is in his own category, kd just going for the 2017/2018 legacy

    Bron isn't declining, he's arguably at his peak

    Which makes the fact that we are seeing kd starting to own a peak LeBron all that much funnier. and ironic

  14. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    you really don't think kd is the better iso player? lol, cmon man

    It factors into things because the way kd slides over and plays help defense, lebron has the same opportunity, the fact that he doesn't take it is his own fault.

    Lebron don't always check the best offensive player. Why you think they got crowder and green. He's just not the same caliber rim protector as kd. He's called Durantula for a reason, haha
    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    Without even touching all the advantages KD gets playing off others in that system instead of creating for everyone Lebron is currently at 1.07 ppp on iso's while Durant is lower at .98 ppp. It's not as crazy as you sound trying to downplay all of the advantages he has and fell off once Curry left due to injury actually.

    It is far easier to Iso on Kyrie 1v1 or Love 1v1 with no help (see:finals) than it is against Iggy or Klay or Durant 1v1 WITH DPOY Green waiting in the lane to help. Despite these major advantages and doing iso to a far lesser degree (not needed given teams talent/system) we can see it isn't like he is currently drastically outperforming Lebron. Despite this even last playoffs Lebron was right there in his PPP come playoff time at 1.17 to 1.16 for Durant and doing it at over double the rate.

    Lastly if you want to get an idea of how good Durant is at iso when he isn't surrounded by insane talent, is needed to be the leader/create, and doesn't just get to go 1v1 against lesser players with no help we can look at 2016 playoffs where he was at .75 ppp far worse than anything we have talked about so far (Lebron at .94). He falls off big when actually asked to be a top player/leader without insane support as OKC showed with more of those situations asked of him even if still not same rate as Lebron. The reason you laugh off the idea Lebron might be better at iso is because you ignore all of the context repeatedly pointed out to just prop up Curry or KD or whatever Warriors is being talked about at that time. The rest of your points all fall into that context you keep ignoring about what one team needs from it's player compared to the other but I just thought since I was on nba.com I would add some numbers to this iso stuff. I think there is an argument to be made for either one overall but based off the last two post seasons Lebron gets more PPP, is in a clearly tougher situation/gets more attention, and does it at a higher volume.
    To be clear it started with these posts. He laughed off the idea someone could think Lebron was better at ISO situations and I added some reasoning behind why it is at least possible (and even said there is an argument to be made for either depending).

    He has specifically been using a few examples of those two 1v1 in the finals and Christmas game. He has been speaking of them in terms of being matched up using his eyes over everything else mentioned by his own choice not because it isn't part of the discussion.

  15. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    To be clear it started with these posts. He laughed off the idea someone could think Lebron was better at ISO situations and I added some reasoning behind why it is at least possible (and even said there is an argument to be made for either depending).

    He has specifically been using a few examples of those two 1v1 in the finals and Christmas game. He has been speaking of them in terms of being matched up using his eyes over everything else mentioned by his own choice not because it isn't part of the discussion.
    OK it's not laughable

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