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  1. #46
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    COLE IS IN THE NL CENTRAL LOL YOU DON'T KNOW ANYTHING

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

  2. #47
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    after all those yrs of me complaining











    santa can't believe I want cole for xmas

    a young johnny bench led the league in passed balls and got better

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinkotheclown View Post
    It explains so much.


    Guys, why are people so insistent on trading for a pitcher? I don't get this. Cole pitches in the NL east. He will be a good pitcher in the AL but he's not worth the cost. We've had patience with Sevy, Sanchez, Judge, Bird and Monty and have been rewarded. We were even somewhat rewarded with Frazier's performance last year. We are about to get rewarded with Torres.
    Why can't the team sit tight and see if Adams can pitch on this level like he has on every other one? People will wait on sheffield and acevedo or even Tate and Abreu but Adams could steal CCs job. I think we should hold tight and keep the kids. The Yankees don't need another pitcher. Tanaka-Sevy-CC-Gray-Montgomery is a solid rotation. If Adams can take CC's job?

    Or how about this, trade Gray, Acevedo and a couple mid level prospects for Cole? Gray would destroy the NL east
    There's a difference between being impatient and giving up on prospects vs. trading prospects you aren't bullish on when they have value.

    If you don't think a guy can hack it you shouldn't blindly give him a chance if you can trade him for value instead. Perfect example is Ref. At one point he had trade value but we held onto him. Ending up getting DFA'd for nothing.

    Let's just look at some recent facts/rumors on Adams...

    1) Supposedly the final hurdle of the Sonny Gray trade was that we wanted to give them Adams but they held out for Kap.

    2) Adams had production that warranted a call up but we didn't give him one last year.

    3) By most accounts the Yankees have taken Sheffield off the table in trade talks as well as other prospects but Adams isn't one of the guys they've done that with.

    4) There's consistent concern in the scouting industry about the transferability of Adams' results because his fastball doesn't move much and his control isn't great.

    Just reading between the lines it seems like they might not just be super high on Adams. And if that's the case then they should look to move him if they think they can get better value for him than they expect him to bring.


    NE Patriots Forum HOF (Class of 2011)

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by hugepatsfan View Post
    There's a difference between being impatient and giving up on prospects vs. trading prospects you aren't bullish on when they have value.

    If you don't think a guy can hack it you shouldn't blindly give him a chance if you can trade him for value instead. Perfect example is Ref. At one point he had trade value but we held onto him. Ending up getting DFA'd for nothing.

    Let's just look at some recent facts/rumors on Adams...

    1) Supposedly the final hurdle of the Sonny Gray trade was that we wanted to give them Adams but they held out for Kap.

    2) Adams had production that warranted a call up but we didn't give him one last year.

    3) By most accounts the Yankees have taken Sheffield off the table in trade talks as well as other prospects but Adams isn't one of the guys they've done that with.

    4) There's consistent concern in the scouting industry about the transferability of Adams' results because his fastball doesn't move much and his control isn't great.

    Just reading between the lines it seems like they might not just be super high on Adams. And if that's the case then they should look to move him if they think they can get better value for him than they expect him to bring.
    Thanks for the info! I didn't know any of that. I still think he wasn't called up because he wasn't on the 40 man.

    I'm totally fine with trading prospects but I don't want to do it unless it's a very legit scenario. I don't believe Cole is that scenario. Fulmer is a guy I'd part with Frazier and adams for but not Cole. He's a career 3.5 era guy. Which means in the AL east he is above 4. I would rather hold onto my prospects and take the chance that Adams would be a 4.5 or less guy. (Pun intended)
    Torres for Cole? No friggin way. Cole isn't that good. He also was not very good last year.



    The new Yankee star, Luke Voit

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by goingfor28 View Post
    COLE IS IN THE NL CENTRAL LOL YOU DON'T KNOW ANYTHING

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    Who's the fool who said otherwise?



    The new Yankee star, Luke Voit

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinkotheclown View Post
    Thanks for the info! I didn't know any of that. I still think he wasn't called up because he wasn't on the 40 man.

    I'm totally fine with trading prospects but I don't want to do it unless it's a very legit scenario. I don't believe Cole is that scenario. Fulmer is a guy I'd part with Frazier and adams for but not Cole. He's a career 3.5 era guy. Which means in the AL east he is above 4. I would rather hold onto my prospects and take the chance that Adams would be a 4.5 or less guy. (Pun intended)
    Torres for Cole? No friggin way. Cole isn't that good. He also was not very good last year.
    I'm also against trading for Cole. I don't think we need to give up prospects for a guy like that. He's a #3 starter in a title team. We traded for that guy last year in Gray. Our rotation is fine. I don't know why people think it sucks...

    Severino finished #3 in Cy Young voting. Still a question if he can repeat but it realyl doesn't get much better than him last year.

    Tanaka was trash the first half of last year but his entire career before that and then in the second half he's been a borderline #1/2,

    Gray is a great #3 starter. For whatever reason I feel Yankees fans are down on him because he didn't have any "earn your pinstripes moments).

    Cole would slot in next as our #4 based on upside but honestly, CC and Monty were better than him last year. Going forward I'd expect Cole to be better but he hasn't been on the level of those top 3 in his career other than 2015. So I don't want to give up Frazier for a guy that slots in as our #4 starter.

    Now, if they really believe in his arm and think they can get back that 2015 performance it makes sense. Someone mentioned earlier that if he takes their approach of throwing less fastballs it could help. If you get 2015 Cole then that's another Severino in the rotation. If they honestly believe that's the guy they're getting then hell yeah you go for it. But otherwise, nah I'll hold onto the prospects.


    NE Patriots Forum HOF (Class of 2011)

  7. #52
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    So, I have been watching the circle-jerk in this thread with some people claiming that, not only is Gerrit Cole not a top-of-the-rotation arm but that he would be our 5th maybe 4th starter.

    That is simply idiotic.

    Cole is a consistent +3 WAR pitcher with an Ace ceiling and the ability to go a solid 200+ IP in a season.

    He outperformed the season results of all Yankee pitchers not named Luis Severino in 2017.

    His best comp on the Yankees is ofcourse Sonny Gray, with the caveat that Cole is a year younger, has a higher ceiling, a better track-record, and manages more Innings Pitched.

    He would be a solid pick up and you could swap Tanaka and Cole in and out of the #2 spot behind Sevy without batting an eye.

    Cole would be a solid pick up and would definitely improve the rotation, but only if he cost Frazizer and one pitching prospect.

    A post-season rotation of Sevy/Tank/Cole/Gray with Montgomery as the long-man in the bull pen is rather solid.
    We’re pointing out that these statistics breed false narratives, and we value the truth. This isn’t about replacing old numbers with new numbers, or attempting to dissuade anyone from enjoying the aesthetics of the game. It is simply about telling the average fan about the reality of what actually happened on the field. The “Holy Trinity” of baseball statistics fail at this most basic task, and so they are not worth deifying any longer. - Dave Cameron

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by IceHawk-181 View Post
    So, I have been watching the circle-jerk in this thread with some people claiming that, not only is Gerrit Cole not a top-of-the-rotation arm but that he would be our 5th maybe 4th starter.

    That is simply idiotic.

    Cole is a consistent +3 WAR pitcher with an Ace ceiling and the ability to go a solid 200+ IP in a season.

    He outperformed the season results of all Yankee pitchers not named Luis Severino in 2017.

    His best comp on the Yankees is ofcourse Sonny Gray, with the caveat that Cole is a year younger, has a higher ceiling, a better track-record, and manages more Innings Pitched.

    He would be a solid pick up and you could swap Tanaka and Cole in and out of the #2 spot behind Sevy without batting an eye.

    Cole would be a solid pick up and would definitely improve the rotation, but only if he cost Frazizer and one pitching prospect.

    A post-season rotation of Sevy/Tank/Cole/Gray with Montgomery as the long-man in the bull pen is rather solid.
    Spot on. Anyone saying Cole is equal to Montgomery is just a flat out homer. You can't use Cole's one bad season(not even that bad tbh) to knock him but then completely ignore what Tanaka did last year. Where he would slot in on this team doesn't matter. My bet would be if Cole is here next year he will be a top three starter on this team.

  9. #54
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    I would love to let Larry work with Cole. He threw way to many fastballs last year.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinkotheclown View Post
    It explains so much.


    Guys, why are people so insistent on trading for a pitcher? I don't get this. Cole pitches in the NL central. He will be a good pitcher in the AL but he's not worth the cost. We've had patience with Sevy, Sanchez, Judge, Bird and Monty and have been rewarded. We were even somewhat rewarded with Frazier's performance last year. We are about to get rewarded with Torres.
    Why can't the team sit tight and see if Adams can pitch on this level like he has on every other one? People will wait on sheffield and acevedo or even Tate and Abreu but Adams could steal CCs job. I think we should hold tight and keep the kids. The Yankees don't need another pitcher. Tanaka-Sevy-CC-Gray-Montgomery is a solid rotation. If Adams can take CC's job?

    Or how about this, trade Gray, Acevedo and a couple mid level prospects for Cole? Gray would destroy the NL east
    I agree and with Torres, you could also count Fowler who was injured in the top of the first in his first game... He very well could have panned out well too... Oakland thought so much of him that even on the DL they wanted him.

    I say we go another year of letting the kids show their stuff.. it paid off in spades last year... and we still have a stable of really good looking prospects knocking on the door.. let them get the chance.. Andujar.. He's barely been given the chance...but when he has.. yikes.. I'd rather bepaying him the MLB minimum for a few seasons then Machado...and if his small taste was indicative of what we could expect.. his bat will be huge for us.. Yes, his glove is questionable.. so what.. Derek Jeter won gold gloves for his glove and he was rarely even league average at SS... at least at 3rd, you're not expected to be great...
    My 3 Favorite teams...
    1. The NY Yankees
    2. The Colorado Rockies
    3. Whoever is playing the Red Sox tonight!

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by IceHawk-181 View Post
    So, I have been watching the circle-jerk in this thread with some people claiming that, not only is Gerrit Cole not a top-of-the-rotation arm but that he would be our 5th maybe 4th starter.

    That is simply idiotic.

    Cole is a consistent +3 WAR pitcher with an Ace ceiling and the ability to go a solid 200+ IP in a season.

    He outperformed the season results of all Yankee pitchers not named Luis Severino in 2017.

    His best comp on the Yankees is ofcourse Sonny Gray, with the caveat that Cole is a year younger, has a higher ceiling, a better track-record, and manages more Innings Pitched.

    He would be a solid pick up and you could swap Tanaka and Cole in and out of the #2 spot behind Sevy without batting an eye.

    Cole would be a solid pick up and would definitely improve the rotation, but only if he cost Frazizer and one pitching prospect.

    A post-season rotation of Sevy/Tank/Cole/Gray with Montgomery as the long-man in the bull pen is rather solid.
    If he had been in a NY Uniform last season with those numbers.. He'd have been Lynched... his backside would have been hanging from the flagpole... and YOU KNOW IT... because most of you would have been the #1 flaming him...

    Stop looking at the grass in the neighbors yard and thinking it's greener... He's pitched in the NL Central.. compared to the AL East, his numbers will not improve any assuming he stays the same.. will most likely get much worse... 31 bombs for pittsburgh would probably be 45 in Yankee stadium.. yeah.. that would look really nice..
    My 3 Favorite teams...
    1. The NY Yankees
    2. The Colorado Rockies
    3. Whoever is playing the Red Sox tonight!

  12. #57
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    Cole is a solid starter. He'll give you 200 innings, win 15 games given the Yankees approach (aka use of bullpen), and has a significant upside. I think he slots in nicely after Sevy.

    With respect to cost, I'm more than willing to give up Chance Adams and another piece. But, certainly not Frazier. Its always nice to have a cheap, high upside corner outfielder that adds some energy to the team. In fact, I'd probably move Gardy to open a spot up for the kid.

    What will the Yankees do now? My guess is nothing. CC slots in as the missing rotation piece. No reason not to pitch Monty and waste a year of control after his performance last year unless a true ACE can be had. The guy I like (which isn't happening) is Stroman.

  13. #58
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    I want Cashman to get a major SP asap. Especially once Yu Darvish going to the Cubs means a possible market for SP trades with more teams going after a tradable pitcher.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by EAGLES3658 View Post
    Spot on. Anyone saying Cole is equal to Montgomery is just a flat out homer. You can't use Cole's one bad season(not even that bad tbh) to knock him but then completely ignore what Tanaka did last year. Where he would slot in on this team doesn't matter. My bet would be if Cole is here next year he will be a top three starter on this team.
    I think that he slots as the third or fourth in the current rotation. I think coming to the AL east hurts him and he will be a different type of pitcher but on par with Gray. If Gray outmatches him, he's the third. If he out pitches Gray, Cole is the third.
    I'm guessing Tanaka still sits at the top to start the season.
    Tank-Sevy-Gray-CC-Monty

    Does Cole improve that? Yes. Tank-Sevy-Cole-Gray-CC That is provided he returns to form. If he pitches like last year, we are looking at a 5+ era. If we are looking at his best season we are looking at a 3.5 If we look at his totals, a 4.5 guy.

    Is it worth the cost? I personally don't think it is.



    The new Yankee star, Luke Voit

  15. #60
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    AS long as we don't trade Torres or Sheffield, I don't really give a crap, who we package in a trade for Fulmer. Cole gets less and Corbin not much.

    I'd trade Frazier, Adams, Acevedo and Thairo for Fulmer, Frazier and Adams for Cole and no more than Acevedo for Corbin, if necessary, and I'd have more problem with that trade than the others.

    Here's the situation. We need starting pitchers for 162 starts. Suppose Severino can start 30 games and due to age, nagging injuries, inexperience or extra rest, Tanaka, Sabathia, Gray and Montgomery will average 25 starts each. If that is a reasonable outlook for these 5 pitchers, then the team will still require 32 more starts from somewhere. If Chance Adams is not the guy, then you are better off trading him for someone who is able to make those 30 starts, like Fulmer or Cole or else keep him around to possibly be called up for about 10 starts later in the season or if someone gets injured, while also trading for a Corbin for a similar amount or perhaps a little bit more. There's also the possibility that Chad Green might jump ahead of Adams as a starter and how much would that diminish Adam's trade value?

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