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  1. #46
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    I hate the idea that people think Durant can't be a top 10 player because he is on a great team. That makes no sense to me. There is no ceiling because of teammates just like there is no floor because of teammates. It's about how he plays and what he does with that roster that counts.


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  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by mightybosstone View Post
    Honestly, you could make a strong case that he just needs to sustain this level of production for a few more years and win maybe probably two more titles with some continued stellar postseason play. In terms of peak production, Durant has already proved he's a better player at his best than Kobe at his best. What stands out when looking at Kobe's career, however, is his remarkable consistency over that 14-year stretch of excellence and his postseason resume.

    But Durant's stretch in eight of the last nine seasons (I'm not counting his 27 games in 14-15) is already amazing in its own right. And his play in the Warriors title run last season helped bolster his nonexistent postseason resume.

    All that being said, Durant jumping ship on the Thunder when he did to play for that stacked Warriors team will probably really devalue any titles he wins with Golden State historically. So you could make a case that, even thought rings are overvalued in historical conversations, he needs to come close to matching Kobe in terms of titles for him to surpass him.

    And if that Warriors team somehow underachieves and fails to win another title or maybe only wins one more, then it could legitimately kill any chance Durant has at passing Kobe. The other wildcard in this that we can't possibly know is what could happen if Durant leaves Golden State at some point and plays with a less-talented core. If he could bring home a ring with a less talented group, similar to what Lebron did in Cleveland or what Kobe did with that second championship core, that would be a huge boost to his legacy. The likelihood of that happening, though, is really, really low.
    And that's why (to me, at least), he won't make it. I've shat on Kobe for running off Shaq but to do that and then win more titles with a different group of guys took balls. I don't think KD will leave unless at least two of the others go first, then it'll probably be to another stacked team.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by KnicksorBust View Post
    I hate the idea that people think Durant can't be a top 10 player because he is on a great team. That makes no sense to me. There is no ceiling because of teammates just like there is no floor because of teammates. It's about how he plays and what he does with that roster that counts.
    I get your point, but history suggests no one has been able to crack Top 10 without demonstrating they were able to be the undisputed best player on a championship team.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by KnicksorBust View Post
    I hate the idea that people think Durant can't be a top 10 player because he is on a great team. That makes no sense to me. There is no ceiling because of teammates just like there is no floor because of teammates. It's about how he plays and what he does with that roster that counts.
    I don't agree with the sentiment that he can't be a top 10 player because he plays for the Warriors. However, by jumping ship, he basically put himself in a situation where that team HAS to be historically dominant. If he joins that team, and they only win the one title or maybe take one more ring before fizzling out, that's going to look really bad for his legacy.

    However, if that Warriors team can win like 3-5 rings and Durant can give us 4-5 more seasons of this level of prime production, there's no reason why he doesn't at least belong in the top discussion or in a legitimate "Who's better: Kobe or Durant?" conversation.

    Quote Originally Posted by numba1CHANGsta View Post
    Just trust me, Hou wont make it all the way to the WCF 😉
    Quote Originally Posted by tredigs View Post
    Houston may make the WCF again, but barring injuries they are no longer a serious threat this year imo.

  5. #50
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    Whatever he does he won't jump past Kobe.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by KnicksorBust View Post
    I hate the idea that people think Durant can't be a top 10 player because he is on a great team. That makes no sense to me. There is no ceiling because of teammates just like there is no floor because of teammates. It's about how he plays and what he does with that roster that counts.
    Sure but the roster is set up to give him role player shots without creating or doing much work just playing off elite talent.

    We have seen what he can do with a lot of help in okc (contender level with MVP caliber guy) and it generally lead to falling off come playoff time. Heck there has been one season since 2013 where Durant lead even his own team in rpm (and multiple other advanced stats come playoff time too). He's not the best offensive or defensive player on this current team (curry/green). This guy has had issue having more impact than his teammates overall let alone talking too 10 all time.

    I won't give him extra credit for this extremely easy situation, to me he's still the same player until he can prove capable of leading (like Kobe without shaq or even what kyrie is now trying to do without lebron). Right now he's someone who generally hasn't stepped up when there was actually competition/challenges.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddletramp View Post
    I've said it before and I'll say it again: If KD joined up with a guy like Butler and a guy like Horford last year (and with an average at best bench), I wouldn't have given him one speck of ****. If Lebron would have joined the Celtics instead of the Heat, I'd have hated on him like many others (including you probably) would have.

    And if KD joined the Cavs last year? Same hate that he's currently getting. No idea why it'd be any different since he joined GS.
    oh, I already hated on him when he first joined the heat, haha. Not for joining the heat, but the way he left cleveland, just left a bad taste in my mouth. Him on the heat, I guess the he'll never be jordan narrative came up, but I dunno, at a certain point you just enjoy what you got in front of you, lebron and wade were special together, them alley oops n everything. Why hate on such beauty?
    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by mightybosstone View Post
    Those two circumstances aren't remotely similar. Durant left a top 3 team in the league at his absolute peak to play for the single greatest regular season team in the history of the NBA. Paul left an underachieving Clippers team in turmoil near the tail end of his prime to play for a slightly better team with a brighter short-term outlook.
    As far as riding coattails, they're basically the same
    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    Sure but the roster is set up to give him role player shots without creating or doing much work just playing off elite talent.

    We have seen what he can do with a lot of help in okc (contender level with MVP caliber guy) and it generally lead to falling off come playoff time. Heck there has been one season since 2013 where Durant lead even his own team in rpm (and multiple other advanced stats come playoff time too). He's not the best offensive or defensive player on this current team (curry/green). This guy has had issue having more impact than his teammates overall let alone talking too 10 all time.

    I won't give him extra credit for this extremely easy situation, to me he's still the same player until he can prove capable of leading (like Kobe without shaq or even what kyrie is now trying to do without lebron). Right now he's someone who generally hasn't stepped up when there was actually competition/challenges.
    Did you not watch the playoffs last year? He stepped up time after time and lead this team

    I got no issue with you holding kd's rank down because of the team he's on, but the reasoning that followed doesn't seem to make any sense
    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    Lebron's greatness was undeniable in miami already. I don't know in what planet two faded, he left a beat up miami team to go to a cavs team with one of the best young talents in the game (who ended up developing into the best finisher in the game) and the consensus best power forward in the league (at the time). You don't remember lebron haters saying he did the same thing he did in miami? Cuz that was a pretty regular narrative.

    He already started to overcome adversity year 1 in miami. Did you not see the celtics and bulls series? He absolutely carried the heat to victory of them, who would deny that?

    You're just pulling things out of ur ***, lebron's greatness in no way hinged on those things you brought up...
    You've lowered yourself to name calling. I'm sorry, I didn't know this offended you. I'm just telling how things played out for both Kobe and Lebron. Relax.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by KnicksorBust View Post
    I hate the idea that people think Durant can't be a top 10 player because he is on a great team. That makes no sense to me. There is no ceiling because of teammates just like there is no floor because of teammates. It's about how he plays and what he does with that roster that counts.
    They don't actually think that. They just want his legacy to be tarnished because they don't like a decision that another grown man made.

    As for passing Kobe, I don't know, stay healthy and have more big-time playoff moments like he had in the Finals last year. Prime V Prime I already have Durant ahead of Kobe. He's a more unstoppable scorer, a more imposing defender and just a tougher matchup for defenses. And we know he does not need help to dominate on an individual level: We saw one season where Westbrook missed half the season (and Harden was gone), and KD put up a super efficient 32/7/6 while leading the league in all things advanced.

    Ultimately the Thunder won nearly 60 games and lost a hard fought Western Conference Finals series against a Spurs team that made the Heatles look like a JV program in the Finals. That season for KD though was better than anything I've seen from Kobe (which is saying something, because Kobe was incredible and peaked very high).

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by mightybosstone View Post
    I don't agree with the sentiment that he can't be a top 10 player because he plays for the Warriors. However, by jumping ship, he basically put himself in a situation where that team HAS to be historically dominant. If he joins that team, and they only win the one title or maybe take one more ring before fizzling out, that's going to look really bad for his legacy.

    However, if that Warriors team can win like 3-5 rings and Durant can give us 4-5 more seasons of this level of prime production, there's no reason why he doesn't at least belong in the top discussion or in a legitimate "Who's better: Kobe or Durant?" conversation.
    Pretty much this.

    The bar is much higher for durant because of his situation. Really, its not about kd or steph, the bar is just very high for the warriors, just like in miami how 4 finals and 2 chips is kinda a disappointment (whereas any other franchise would be beyond satisfied with that), warriors have done the same to themselves. However, if they DO indeed rack these chips, like I been saying, at a certain point you just cannot deny greatness
    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by AllBall View Post
    You've lowered yourself to name calling. I'm sorry, I didn't know this offended you. I'm just telling how things played out for both Kobe and Lebron. Relax.
    oh my bad, I didn't mean to call you a name or anything (i'm not entirely sure where I did). I'm def relaxed, I'm just saying that those two things you mentioned as being WHY lebron is held in such high stature, sure they are a part of it, but he started elevating to that status well before leaving miami. Hell, some may argue he started elevating to that status before leaving cleveland the first time.

    Didnt mean to have an aggressive tone toward you, i'm just kinda a dick in general, lol
    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

  14. #59
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    When you look at the guys considered Top 10 ever (MJ, Bron, Wilt, Russell, Magic, Bird, Duncan, Shaq, Hakeem, Kobe, and Kareem) all of them won a ring as the undisputed best player on their team.

    The only two cases where guys were on the same team winning (Kobe/Shaq and Magic/Kareem), all the players proved they could win a ring without the other. Kobe and Shaq both won rings without the other and Magic and Kareem did too.

    He could do anything, but history is against him at this point. Especially if he doesn't even win as many rings as Kobe. If he only wins 4 rings, he has almost no shot.

  15. #60
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    What must Durant do to pass Kobe on your All-Time List?

    Lol the Warriors without Durant were likely headed for that kind of run (this was responding to mbt talking about 2 rings 4 years). I would say if the Warriors don't win a title with this core in any season it's a pretty big failure, the gap is huge.

    Edit: like I think rings here are a given, he needs to find a way to separate himself more given any top star could win in his situation (even his team without him lol). It takes him proving he has actually gotten better as a player individually which will be tough without injury/change of scenery.
    Last edited by mngopher35; 11-03-2017 at 03:28 PM.

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