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  1. #6541
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeartOfStarks View Post
    Weíre saying the same thing. I do think (and weíve seen this plenty) that guys develop at different paces and all of a sudden some players at 25 or 26 youíre like oh **** where did this dude come fromÖ but with the Knicks for decades now we never commit to prospects long term. So prospects ultimately never pay dividends for us. A lot of our rookies we dump literally 1 or 2 years into their time here. I think itís just a bad business model. And part of why our FO has a terrible rep around the league and no one wants to come here. We do have a stain of toxicity on us as an organization whether some want to acknowledge it or not.
    When does a team that drafted the prospect really ever hold on to them past the rookie contract waiting for them to develop into a legit servicable rotation player? I agree that sometimes these guys finally figure it out years down the road. Cam Payne is an easy example to point to. It took him until - what, year 6 to figure it out? Nobody was willing to re-sign him as an incumbent player to wait for it to happen. Doesn't mean it won't happen, but I won't fault the Knicks if they move on and Frank goes on to be a solid bench player down the road. It doesn't really make sense for the Knicks or Frank to continue this partnership. I wouldn't be mad if we found a way to keep him on a bargain deal, but why would Frank even do that?

  2. #6542
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    Quote Originally Posted by D-Leethal View Post
    When does a team that drafted the prospect really ever hold on to them past the rookie contract waiting for them to develop into a legit servicable rotation player? I agree that sometimes these guys finally figure it out years down the road. Cam Payne is an easy example to point to. It took him until - what, year 6 to figure it out? Nobody was willing to re-sign him as an incumbent player to wait for it to happen. Doesn't mean it won't happen, but I won't fault the Knicks if they move on and Frank goes on to be a solid bench player down the road. It doesn't really make sense for the Knicks or Frank to continue this partnership. I wouldn't be mad if we found a way to keep him on a bargain deal, but why would Frank even do that?
    30,000 foot view last guy we signed past his rookie deal was Charlie Ward. Damn near 30 years ago.

    As an organization with a terrible reputation around the league that zero stars ever want to come to, itís about nurturing development, making home grown stars and building a sustainable foundation over the course of many seasons.

    Weíre the opposite - we look like a zero loyalty, zero care for our players team over multiple decades now. Iím making a point about the holistic perception of the Knicks to players around the league. Remember the rumors that Carmelo ďpoisonedĒ KP? What do you think he was telling him?

  3. #6543
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    Quote Originally Posted by D-Leethal View Post
    When does a team that drafted the prospect really ever hold on to them past the rookie contract waiting for them to develop into a legit servicable rotation player? I agree that sometimes these guys finally figure it out years down the road. Cam Payne is an easy example to point to. It took him until - what, year 6 to figure it out? Nobody was willing to re-sign him as an incumbent player to wait for it to happen. Doesn't mean it won't happen, but I won't fault the Knicks if they move on and Frank goes on to be a solid bench player down the road. It doesn't really make sense for the Knicks or Frank to continue this partnership. I wouldn't be mad if we found a way to keep him on a bargain deal, but why would Frank even do that?
    AlsoÖ regarding FrankÖ youíre looking for improvement/trajectory with prospects. To me, I see a potentially elite, switchable guard who can defend 1-3 if not 1-4. I actually remember Frank giving Aaron Gordon fits when he defended him. And this season, albeit in limited minutes, he shot a league best percentage from corner threes.

    Would I sign him to a 5 year 50 million dollar deal? No lol. But would I attempt to bring him back on a reasonable contract and give him a real chance/expanded role? Absolutely.

    Ultimately there was no real reason to play/start Payton this entire year. It was completely idiotic. Even if Frank doesnít get those minutes, give them to Quick. But again thereís always something weird or fishy or just plain dumb going on here, even with Thibs at the helm.

    Iíll be curious to see how the off-season and next year shakes out. Hoping for the best as always

  4. #6544
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    I think the inability to grow and develop players is unfortunately in our DNA...remember Trevor Ariza? Look what he became after we let him go. And how long his career became.

  5. #6545
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    Quote Originally Posted by YankeeFanAlways View Post
    I think the inability to grow and develop players is unfortunately in our DNA...remember Trevor Ariza? Look what he became after we let him go. And how long his career became.
    Exactly. And we dumped Nene right after drafting him as well, then he had a damn near 20 year career including playing a big role on contending teams.

    And that was 20 years ago. Trading all the picks after that is the same thing. Quick fix, bandaid solutions with little planning, desperate home run swings. Itís the opposite of smart investment in the future, building foundationsÖ

    The Knicks/Dolan just operate with a line cutting strategy. No need to do the actual work, just shortcut/cut the line. Itís the philosophy of a silver spoon baby/daddyís little prince. He clearly got everything handed to him without actually earning it and he runs the organization the same exact way. Only that doesnít really work in the NBA and we fans have had to suffer through this BS now for 2 decades.

    Again itís the 30,000 foot view but itís ****ing reality. What other teamís last rookie they kept beyond their rookie deal was 25 years ago? We legit might be the only team with that claim in the league lol

  6. #6546
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    Frank Ntilikina's Projected Outlook Thread

    Knicks trading their picks/young guys in poor home run attempts isnít the same as letting Frank walk because he hasnít figured out how to be useful on a nightly basis yet. The whole ďKnicks donít resign any of their rookiesĒ is true but also skewed by all the future picks weíve traded before the Phil Jackson era and the Frank pick. They didnít make a whole ton of first round picks for about 15 years and the notable ones they did make were part of the Melo trade.

    I donít think this has anything to do with Frank being too raw 4 years in to keep on the roster. Teams let guys like Frank go all the time after their rookie contract is up and some go on to do well but you canít expect a team to try a groom a kid for 6-7 years.

  7. #6547
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    Quote Originally Posted by D-Leethal View Post
    Knicks trading their picks/young guys in poor home run attempts isnít the same as letting Frank walk because he hasnít figured out how to be useful on a nightly basis yet. The whole ďKnicks donít resign any of their rookiesĒ is true but also skewed by all the future picks weíve traded before the Phil Jackson era and the Frank pick. They didnít make a whole ton of first round picks for about 15 years and the notable ones they did make were part of the Melo trade.

    I donít think this has anything to do with Frank being too raw 4 years in to keep on the roster. Teams let guys like Frank go all the time after their rookie contract is up and some go on to do well but you canít expect a team to try a groom a kid for 6-7 years.
    Well he looked pretty good in that vid Rican posted. Better than Vildoza who guys were getting excited about after posting his vid the other day (pretty sure I saw someone on here suggesting Vildoza could be the starterÖ) and heís still 4 years younger than him.

    Guess weíll just have to wait & see. Iím curious to see how Vildoza looks in the NBA and very excited to see what we do on draft night. Just not sure Thibs is gonna give those new kids burn but maybe he will. Iím a bit nervous about who we might throw money at in FA. We donít have the best track record in that department.

  8. #6548
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeartOfStarks View Post
    Well he looked pretty good in that vid Rican posted. Better than Vildoza who guys were getting excited about after posting his vid the other day (pretty sure I saw someone on here suggesting Vildoza could be the starterÖ) and heís still 4 years younger than him.

    Guess weíll just have to wait & see. Iím curious to see how Vildoza looks in the NBA and very excited to see what we do on draft night. Just not sure Thibs is gonna give those new kids burn but maybe he will. Iím a bit nervous about who we might throw money at in FA. We donít have the best track record in that department.
    Looking good in off season clips has never been an issue for Frank


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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  9. #6549
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    Looking good in off season clips has never been an issue for Frank


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    I mean he looked pretty good in that game against the Lakers which was at the end of this season and was a game that mattered big time. Then after Thibs left him in almost all the way through the 4th he was rewarded with never playing again lol

  10. #6550
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    What will happen to this thread when heís gone?

  11. #6551
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeartOfStarks View Post
    Well he looked pretty good in that vid Rican posted. Better than Vildoza who guys were getting excited about after posting his vid the other day (pretty sure I saw someone on here suggesting Vildoza could be the starterÖ) and heís still 4 years younger than him.

    Guess weíll just have to wait & see. Iím curious to see how Vildoza looks in the NBA and very excited to see what we do on draft night. Just not sure Thibs is gonna give those new kids burn but maybe he will. Iím a bit nervous about who we might throw money at in FA. We donít have the best track record in that department.
    I donít think being young and raw is a positive for Frank anymore.

  12. #6552
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    Looking good in off season clips has never been an issue for Frank


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    if anyone would actually take the time to see more clips other than what someone who will always post anything FRank does that is remotely a positive they will see that many players in that game would be looked as sure things that should be signed in the NBA. Actually I saw another clip where he fouled a guy on a break, yes another touch foul, so that was three points needlessly, and then to end the game he went under a pick and never recovered for an easy very costly three.

    But as usual he looked smooth in those highlight clips, feels like a repeat lol

    Funny how when Frank is talked about Knicks stink in development as a franchise, yet none of the players that went anywhere made an all star game.

    And someone brought up Ariza? He lasted his rookie year and 36 games before he was traded, he shot under 30% from three until the 2012-2013 season and he was a rookie in 2004, I guess we should have waited till 2012 when he got his shot right and still shot just above league average

    And How about the fact the Knicks traded him early on and yet Orlando, LAL, Houst, NOGH, Wash, Houst, Suns, Wash again, Sac, Port and now Miami? yep only in NY???

    And I remember the trade like it was yesterday, Anfernee Hardaway and Ariza for Steve Francis

    Knicks are guilty but guilty of building a team the wrong way, not development, hard to come up with any examples to be honest.

    As far as Frank i'd love to stay on the cheap, but honestly he needs to move on as Heart said he's still young and like Ariza he could be a late bloomer or even sooner but he needs a change of atmospher.

    the Blame game has to stop though, kind of ridiculous. How many coach's has Frank had here?

  13. #6553
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knick Danger View Post
    What will happen to this thread when heís gone?
    Better yet, will people still blame the Knicks if his NBA career amounts to nothing?

  14. #6554
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    well speaking of highlights this came out 3 hours ago, villy looks good.

    #SportsVibesTV #SVTV #NYK
    Knicks Luca Vildoza Goes Off in 3rd Quarter in Loss To Nigeria

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgEiMmQtwLM

  15. #6555
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    Frank is still only 22 - Younger than Obi.

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