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  1. #871
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lionel20 View Post
    Dude, are you NSA? I donít think so. But you can go ahead and pretend that you know for a fact whatís on in my living room.. smh

    Ridiculous

    But Iíll ask you this since you sound like your watching the Pats v Titans ... The Pats offense on each of its scoring drives ó screen, screen, screen, run, screen, dump-off, YAC, YAC, YAC. Find me one throw on those Patriots drives that any QB in the NFL canít make. Itís all playcalling.
    Black QBs can, white QBs canít. Duh.

  2. #872
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    Oct 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lionel20 View Post
    Dude, are you NSA? I donít think so. But you can go ahead and pretend that you know for a fact whatís on in my living room.. smh

    Ridiculous

    But Iíll ask you this since you sound like your watching the Pats v Titans ... The Pats offense on each of its scoring drives ó screen, screen, screen, run, screen, dump-off, YAC, YAC, YAC. Find me one throw on those Patriots drives that any QB in the NFL canít make. Itís all playcalling.
    let's go over why your stat is ridiculous -

    your stat was basically showing dak as being one of the best QBs ever and you were basically agreeing with it.

    we tried to point out that daks stats were inflated because the team was ran off the run game and because of that dak wasn't asked to do a lot and had a very easy time throwing to generally wide open targets.

    you vehemently fought against this saying dak was successful because he's elite, nothing else.

    this year dak continues his success - until zeke goes out, then over the last 8 games he was just laughably awful - one of the worst starters in the NFL.

    we point this out and your excuse was that the offense was based on zeke and of course dak would struggle because the offense wouldn't work without zeke.

    so you suddenly took the EXACT opposite stance you took a year ago.

    not only that, but you're suddenly making arguments about all these QBs being system QBs, but you refuse to acknowledge dak, the QB who has only been successful while zeke is playing, JUST MIGHT be a system QB that relies on his run game to be successful.

    and you still refuse to admit a bias.

    every argument you make for dak contradicts a previous stance you had on him.
    Quote Originally Posted by NormSizedMidget View Post
    It's different now than it was.

    When he won the second one, Giants fans are here we're outside of their minds.
    That quote always cracks me up.

  3. #873
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    Sep 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by basch152 View Post
    let's go over why your stat is ridiculous -

    your stat was basically showing dak as being one of the best QBs ever and you were basically agreeing with it.

    we tried to point out that daks stats were inflated because the team was ran off the run game and because of that dak wasn't asked to do a lot and had a very easy time throwing to generally wide open targets.

    you vehemently fought against this saying dak was successful because he's elite, nothing else.

    this year dak continues his success - until zeke goes out, then over the last 8 games he was just laughably awful - one of the worst starters in the NFL.

    we point this out and your excuse was that the offense was based on zeke and of course dak would struggle because the offense wouldn't work without zeke.

    so you suddenly took the EXACT opposite stance you took a year ago.

    not only that, but you're suddenly making arguments about all these QBs being system QBs, but you refuse to acknowledge dak, the QB who has only been successful while zeke is playing, JUST MIGHT be a system QB that relies on his run game to be successful.

    and you still refuse to admit a bias.

    every argument you make for dak contradicts a previous stance you had on him.
    In my opinion, where you and many of the other users are failing is in that you keep trying to make my statements fit your own narrative instead of actually reading what Iím saying... Hereís an example:

    Me: How do you even attempt to qualify Zekeís impact on Dak?

    Someone like you: You canít. You have to watch more football to know what thatís about.

    Me: Fine, go back to your meathead simple world where people careless about inserting objectivity into their analysis.

    Someone more analytical than you: Just look at what Dak did with Zeke, and what he wasnít able to do without Zeke.

    Me: Well, I want to be objective, so Iíll have to somehow adjust all the other QBís performance with or without key players. Letís start with Carson Wentzóletís look at his with and without Lane Johnson.

    Someone a little analytical than you: No. You canít do that because Wentz was in his first year when he lost Johnson.

    Me: But the first 4 games of Wentzí career look similiar to his last 14 from this year. The common denominator is Lane Johnson. Plus itís a bigger sample size than Dak and Zeke.

  4. #874
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    OK we get it.. You hate white quarterbacks and you love black quarterbacks.. Blah blah blah

    /thread

    Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

    Your baby can't do this

  5. #875
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lionel20 View Post
    In my opinion, where you and many of the other users are failing is in that you keep trying to make my statements fit your own narrative instead of actually reading what Iím saying... Hereís an example:

    Me: How do you even attempt to qualify Zekeís impact on Dak?

    Someone like you: You canít. You have to watch more football to know what thatís about.

    Me: Fine, go back to your meathead simple world where people careless about inserting objectivity into their analysis.

    Someone more analytical than you: Just look at what Dak did with Zeke, and what he wasnít able to do without Zeke.

    Me: Well, I want to be objective, so Iíll have to somehow adjust all the other QBís performance with or without key players. Letís start with Carson Wentzóletís look at his with and without Lane Johnson.

    Someone a little analytical than you: No. You canít do that because Wentz was in his first year when he lost Johnson.

    Me: But the first 4 games of Wentzí career look similiar to his last 14 from this year. The common denominator is Lane Johnson. Plus itís a bigger sample size than Dak and Zeke.
    I guess I just have to accept that you can't get through stupidity sometimes.

    again, you last year - "running game and players around him have nothing to do with it, daks stats say he's elite, so he's elite"

    this year - "well some QBs are system QBs and of course dak can't succeed without zeke when the offense was built for zeke" and a dozen other excuses for why dak is sucking.

    suddenly stats do actually need context when they aren't in favor of your boy.

    but yeah, WE have the agenda, not you.
    Last edited by basch152; 01-14-2018 at 01:37 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by NormSizedMidget View Post
    It's different now than it was.

    When he won the second one, Giants fans are here we're outside of their minds.
    That quote always cracks me up.

  6. #876
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lionel20 View Post
    In my opinion, where you and many of the other users are failing is in that you keep trying to make my statements fit your own narrative instead of actually reading what Iím saying... Hereís an example:

    Me: How do you even attempt to qualify Zekeís impact on Dak?

    Someone like you: You canít. You have to watch more football to know what thatís about.

    Me: Fine, go back to your meathead simple world where people careless about inserting objectivity into their analysis.

    Someone more analytical than you: Just look at what Dak did with Zeke, and what he wasnít able to do without Zeke.

    Me: Well, I want to be objective, so Iíll have to somehow adjust all the other QBís performance with or without key players. Letís start with Carson Wentzóletís look at his with and without Lane Johnson.

    Someone a little analytical than you: No. You canít do that because Wentz was in his first year when he lost Johnson.

    Me: But the first 4 games of Wentzí career look similiar to his last 14 from this year. The common denominator is Lane Johnson. Plus itís a bigger sample size than Dak and Zeke.
    That's not an accurate summary of this thread.

  7. #877
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lionel20 View Post
    Dude, are you NSA? I donít think so. But you can go ahead and pretend that you know for a fact whatís on in my living room.. smh

    Ridiculous

    But Iíll ask you this since you sound like your watching the Pats v Titans ... The Pats offense on each of its scoring drives ó screen, screen, screen, run, screen, dump-off, YAC, YAC, YAC. Find me one throw on those Patriots drives that any QB in the NFL canít make. Itís all playcalling.
    It was a similar performance as the one by Prescott against the Giants week 14, which you labeled extraordinary. With most of their yardage after the catch from short passes, both had only two completions on deep targets, as objectively recorded by the NFL in the official game book. A measurement you choose to ignore.

  8. #878
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    Quote Originally Posted by basch152 View Post
    I guess I just have to accept that you can't get through stupidity sometimes.

    again, you last year - "running game and players around him have nothing to do with it, daks stats say he's elite, so he's elite"

    this year - "well some QBs are system QBs and of course dak can't succeed without zeke when the offense was built for zeke" and a dozen other excuses for why dak is sucking.

    suddenly stats do actually need context when they aren't in favor of your boy.

    but yeah, WE have the agenda, not you.
    Here we go again! Youíre trying to force your narrative. Instead of replying to what I actually said, you start up your fallacy to fit your agenda which is to accuse me of changing all of my arguments to protect Dak, because Dakís an African American QB.

    Hereís where that started. Black QBís are and always have been severely underrated. I know that from watching football. I was watching NFL Network one morning in 2011, Kurt Warner was criticizing mobile QBís, claiming that their style leads to injuries. The whole panel agreed. I did a statistical analysis of conventional vs mobile passers sorted by games missed by injuries. Mobile QBís actually get hurt less. Then I found a article in Slate explaining how most mobile passers, instead of taking punishment in the pocket like Warner did his whole career, either escape out of bounds or give themselves up to aviod hits. The argument that mobile passers are a health risk is wrong and I can prove it through stats.

    I began to analyze the larger picture. A high percentage of mobile passers are African American, not necessarily because theyíre genetically superior, but because non-athletic African Americans are typically not recruited by top schools. Thereís a double standard. I played running back in a private high school. The coaches would hire staff to scout through the ghetto to find athletes to play football and convince the financial department to subsidize their tuition. My school had a few black kids enrolled that werenít athletic but were 4.0 GPA students. It seems like they can process information quickly? I know for a fact that they were privately turned away from playing football at interest meeting because they were not athletes. However everyone knew that our QBís were not good athletes in practice. So why were the non athletic black kids discouraged from playing QB? Was it considered a white position? Weíre the white QBís sons of coaches, or influential people in the community. Sure, in some cases. But this was widespread. The only black kids recuriuted to play QB were top scaled athletesóand the coordinated engineered a lot of QB options in the playbook. It doesnít surprise me that a high percentage of Mobile passers in the NFL are African American, it starts on the high school level.

    I apologize for the lengthy post, but I could and should publish a book about this phenomenon. Anyway, in the professional ranks mobile passer has become synonymous with African American QBís. In part, the criticism aimed at mobile passers eg health concerns really stems from an obvious to sometimes implicit bias against black QBís that has existed in the NFL from the beginning.

    Just because I recognize the biases does not equate to me being biased. Iím only interested in objective measures. I explain in detail all of my computations and adjustments.

    In your post, youíre implying that System QBís cannot be Elite QBís. When did I ever say that? Look at my list. My argument is that there numbers are inflated because of the system. Itís not so much that Drew Brees would turn into Brandon Weeden if it werenít for Sean Paytonóheís just not Dan Marino or Warren Moon. My arguments seem to be more complex than your simple agenda. I think Iíve found a fair way to divide credit among passers using Air Yards, you tell me how I should quantify Zekeís impact on Dakís in a way that can be applied to all QBís relationships with their key players. Itís much more complicated than identifying QBís that execute the short passing game to inflate their stats.

  9. #879
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    How funny would it be if they both became busts? And with the small sample size we have of them...its not impossible. We have saw great years from QB before then never got that again from the player. Foles did it. Kyle Orton won the same amount of games as Dak as a rookie.

  10. #880
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lionel20 View Post
    Here we go again! Youíre trying to force your narrative. Instead of replying to what I actually said, you start up your fallacy to fit your agenda which is to accuse me of changing all of my arguments to protect Dak, because Dakís an African American QB.

    Hereís where that started. Black QBís are and always have been severely underrated. I know that from watching football. I was watching NFL Network one morning in 2011, Kurt Warner was criticizing mobile QBís, claiming that their style leads to injuries. The whole panel agreed. I did a statistical analysis of conventional vs mobile passers sorted by games missed by injuries. Mobile QBís actually get hurt less. Then I found a article in Slate explaining how most mobile passers, instead of taking punishment in the pocket like Warner did his whole career, either escape out of bounds or give themselves up to aviod hits. The argument that mobile passers are a health risk is wrong and I can prove it through stats.

    I began to analyze the larger picture. A high percentage of mobile passers are African American, not necessarily because theyíre genetically superior, but because non-athletic African Americans are typically not recruited by top schools. Thereís a double standard. I played running back in a private high school. The coaches would hire staff to scout through the ghetto to find athletes to play football and convince the financial department to subsidize their tuition. My school had a few black kids enrolled that werenít athletic but were 4.0 GPA students. It seems like they can process information quickly? I know for a fact that they were privately turned away from playing football at interest meeting because they were not athletes. However everyone knew that our QBís were not good athletes in practice. So why were the non athletic black kids discouraged from playing QB? Was it considered a white position? Weíre the white QBís sons of coaches, or influential people in the community. Sure, in some cases. But this was widespread. The only black kids recuriuted to play QB were top scaled athletesóand the coordinated engineered a lot of QB options in the playbook. It doesnít surprise me that a high percentage of Mobile passers in the NFL are African American, it starts on the high school level.

    I apologize for the lengthy post, but I could and should publish a book about this phenomenon. Anyway, in the professional ranks mobile passer has become synonymous with African American QBís. In part, the criticism aimed at mobile passers eg health concerns really stems from an obvious to sometimes implicit bias against black QBís that has existed in the NFL from the beginning.

    Just because I recognize the biases does not equate to me being biased. Iím only interested in objective measures. I explain in detail all of my computations and adjustments.

    In your post, youíre implying that System QBís cannot be Elite QBís. When did I ever say that? Look at my list. My argument is that there numbers are inflated because of the system. Itís not so much that Drew Brees would turn into Brandon Weeden if it werenít for Sean Paytonóheís just not Dan Marino or Warren Moon. My arguments seem to be more complex than your simple agenda. I think Iíve found a fair way to divide credit among passers using Air Yards, you tell me how I should quantify Zekeís impact on Dakís in a way that can be applied to all QBís relationships with their key players. Itís much more complicated than identifying QBís that execute the short passing game to inflate their stats.
    Carson Wentz is a mobile passer.

  11. #881
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    Oct 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lionel20 View Post
    Here we go again! Youíre trying to force your narrative. Instead of replying to what I actually said, you start up your fallacy to fit your agenda which is to accuse me of changing all of my arguments to protect Dak, because Dakís an African American QB.

    Hereís where that started. Black QBís are and always have been severely underrated. I know that from watching football. I was watching NFL Network one morning in 2011, Kurt Warner was criticizing mobile QBís, claiming that their style leads to injuries. The whole panel agreed. I did a statistical analysis of conventional vs mobile passers sorted by games missed by injuries. Mobile QBís actually get hurt less. Then I found a article in Slate explaining how most mobile passers, instead of taking punishment in the pocket like Warner did his whole career, either escape out of bounds or give themselves up to aviod hits. The argument that mobile passers are a health risk is wrong and I can prove it through stats.

    I began to analyze the larger picture. A high percentage of mobile passers are African American, not necessarily because theyíre genetically superior, but because non-athletic African Americans are typically not recruited by top schools. Thereís a double standard. I played running back in a private high school. The coaches would hire staff to scout through the ghetto to find athletes to play football and convince the financial department to subsidize their tuition. My school had a few black kids enrolled that werenít athletic but were 4.0 GPA students. It seems like they can process information quickly? I know for a fact that they were privately turned away from playing football at interest meeting because they were not athletes. However everyone knew that our QBís were not good athletes in practice. So why were the non athletic black kids discouraged from playing QB? Was it considered a white position? Weíre the white QBís sons of coaches, or influential people in the community. Sure, in some cases. But this was widespread. The only black kids recuriuted to play QB were top scaled athletesóand the coordinated engineered a lot of QB options in the playbook. It doesnít surprise me that a high percentage of Mobile passers in the NFL are African American, it starts on the high school level.

    I apologize for the lengthy post, but I could and should publish a book about this phenomenon. Anyway, in the professional ranks mobile passer has become synonymous with African American QBís. In part, the criticism aimed at mobile passers eg health concerns really stems from an obvious to sometimes implicit bias against black QBís that has existed in the NFL from the beginning.

    Just because I recognize the biases does not equate to me being biased. Iím only interested in objective measures. I explain in detail all of my computations and adjustments.

    In your post, youíre implying that System QBís cannot be Elite QBís. When did I ever say that? Look at my list. My argument is that there numbers are inflated because of the system. Itís not so much that Drew Brees would turn into Brandon Weeden if it werenít for Sean Paytonóheís just not Dan Marino or Warren Moon. My arguments seem to be more complex than your simple agenda. I think Iíve found a fair way to divide credit among passers using Air Yards, you tell me how I should quantify Zekeís impact on Dakís in a way that can be applied to all QBís relationships with their key players. Itís much more complicated than identifying QBís that execute the short passing game to inflate their stats.
    LOL, you crack me up dude.

    a month ago you kept saying my narrat8ve was about wentz even though I don't, nor ever did give one flying **** about wentz.

    and now I'm apparently saying you only defend black QBs even though I'm probably the ONE person in thjis thread who has never said that.

    you are projecting hardcore and it's really telling.

    no, what I've said repeatedly, and it's pretty much agreed on by every single person that has ever seen you post, is you have a hard on for AT LEAST dak and Wilson, and have repeatedly altered your stat everytime they slip a little so they stay above other QBs you want them to stay above
    Quote Originally Posted by NormSizedMidget View Post
    It's different now than it was.

    When he won the second one, Giants fans are here we're outside of their minds.
    That quote always cracks me up.

  12. #882
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    24,109
    What is the basis for the correlation between air yards and being a system QB? Is there any reason to believe there is a direct correlation between those two things other than the opinion that it is so?

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