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  1. #796
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    Quote Originally Posted by Young$avage View Post
    Wait, we're still doing this Wentz vs. Dak thing?
    Yea as of this year it’s not even a debate.

  2. #797
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.B View Post
    Isn’t Dez the same WR that most people (even a lot of Cowboys fans) were saying that he’s mediocre at best now? You’re probably talking about 1 or 2 guys on this board that we’re saying Dez was top 5 and still elite. Dez hasn’t been elite in 3 years, pretty much since he signed that big contract.
    You predicted elite numbers for him in 2017.

    Now I accidentally replied to this thread again. Damn.
    Last edited by QB_Eagles; 01-06-2018 at 04:04 PM.

  3. #798
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    Quote Originally Posted by Young$avage View Post
    Wait, we're still doing this Wentz vs. Dak thing?
    Sanity isn't a requirement for psd unfortunately.

    Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

    Your baby can't do this

  4. #799
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    Quote Originally Posted by BDawk4Prez View Post
    Holy heck you amaze me. This is gold, sheer comedy.
    No,

    Your statement a few pages ago is beyond ridiculous. And I think you know better. I’m trying to keep it together because there’s a slight chance that you actually believe the stuff you type.

    So Wentz makes all the players around him better like he’s football’s Jason Kidd, and the implication is that in the opposite way it’s the players around Dak are making him better. It’s just a ridiculous statement and nevermind that you’re a long way from backing it up with anything — if you can at all shine light on these mystical powers that Wentz posses.

    You should try and clean this up because it sounds like you’re arguing that Wentz is this self-sufficient star who empowers all who play along side him, meanwhile Dak is a parasite just feeding off of the talent surround him. Oh, and Wentz’ self-sufficient powers struck sometime in the 2017 offseason. He didn’t have his ephiphany until after 2016, so I shouldn’t pay attention to that performance.

    But yeah, this reeks of bias. Some what I do is analyze the players and express my opinions largely through numbers. Dak and Wentz came in the league at the same time. The Cowboys suffered some key injuries/suspensions this year. I expect they’ll bounce back next year. At the point we have two seasons worth of information. And Dak’s career has been better than Wentz’. Besides Wentz injury was serious. RG3 never fully recovered from it. Meanwhile Dak has been the picture of durability.

  5. #800
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lionel20 View Post
    No,

    Your statement a few pages ago is beyond ridiculous. And I think you know better. I’m trying to keep it together because there’s a slight chance that you actually believe the stuff you type.

    So Wentz makes all the players around him better like he’s football’s Jason Kidd, and the implication is that in the opposite way it’s the players around Dak are making him better. It’s just a ridiculous statement and nevermind that you’re a long way from backing it up with anything — if you can at all shine light on these mystical powers that Wentz posses.

    You should try and clean this up because it sounds like you’re arguing that Wentz is this self-sufficient star who empowers all who play along side him, meanwhile Dak is a parasite just feeding off of the talent surround him. Oh, and Wentz’ self-sufficient powers struck sometime in the 2017 offseason. He didn’t have his ephiphany until after 2016, so I shouldn’t pay attention to that performance.

    But yeah, this reeks of bias. Some what I do is analyze the players and express my opinions largely through numbers. Dak and Wentz came in the league at the same time. The Cowboys suffered some key injuries/suspensions this year. I expect they’ll bounce back next year. At the point we have two seasons worth of information. And Dak’s career has been better than Wentz’. Besides Wentz injury was serious. RG3 never fully recovered from it. Meanwhile Dak has been the picture of durability.
    One is black where you continue to adjust, adapt, and create formulas to fit your own agenda.

    The other is white.

    We’ve seen this movie before, it was called Russell Wilson is the best ever, ignoring his D and Lynch.

    Next season it will be DeShaun Watson or Lamar Jackson.

    /thread

  6. #801
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.B View Post
    Isn’t Dez the same WR that most people (even a lot of Cowboys fans) were saying that he’s mediocre at best now? You’re probably talking about 1 or 2 guys on this board that we’re saying Dez was top 5 and still elite. Dez hasn’t been elite in 3 years, pretty much since he signed that big contract.
    Even you predicted elite numbers for Dez for this season. It’s partly Dez, partly coaching, and partly Dak.

  7. #802
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    I think I had Dez at 75 catches but mostly because it was pre Zeke suspension .I said he was a top 3 50/ 50 ball guy. But with the suspension of your best home run hitter Dez should have had huge numbers this year because Dallas needed it.

  8. #803
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    Quote Originally Posted by surf and turf View Post
    I think I had Dez at 75 catches but mostly because it was pre Zeke suspension .I said he was a top 3 50/ 50 ball guy. But with the suspension of your best home run hitter Dez should have had huge numbers this year because Dallas needed it.
    Dez also was single-covered relatively frequently. Elliott and Morris saw 35% and 38% 8-man boxes respectively, which is high in today's NFL.

    Since Bryant was only ever really successful with Romo at QB, I think it's fair to criticize his connection with Prescott, but I don't think it's fair to put the blame for that on Dak entirely. At the end of the day, the team needs to surround their QB with receivers who play into his strengths. For Dallas that would mean upgrades at slot receiver and receiving TE. Even if it comes at the cost of releasing Dez. Although I'm not sure Jerry Jones would do that.

  9. #804
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    Quote Originally Posted by QB_Eagles View Post
    Dez also was single-covered relatively frequently. Elliott and Morris saw 35% and 38% 8-man boxes respectively, which is high in today's NFL.

    Since Bryant was only ever really successful with Romo at QB, I think it's fair to criticize his connection with Prescott, but I don't think it's fair to put the blame for that on Dak entirely. At the end of the day, the team needs to surround their QB with receivers who play into his strengths. For Dallas that would mean upgrades at slot receiver and receiving TE. Even if it comes at the cost of releasing Dez. Although I'm not sure Jerry Jones would do that.
    No what you do is upgrade the WR position and play Dez more in the slot.

    Unless your buying into he had a knee injury that they hid.

  10. #805
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    But a lot of that single coverage were because of some struggles on the o line. I don't think your doing that as much unless you think the rush is gonna get there. I think Dak and Dez bounce back next year.

  11. #806
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    Quote Originally Posted by surf and turf View Post
    No what you do is upgrade the WR position and play Dez more in the slot.

    Unless your buying into he had a knee injury that they hid.
    Dez Bryant is absolutely not the type of receiver you put in the slot. But we've been over that.

  12. #807
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    Quote Originally Posted by QB_Eagles View Post
    Dez Bryant is absolutely not the type of receiver you put in the slot. But we've been over that.
    Yes and we discussed how he already plays in the slot and how both he and the team both publically said they like it. I'm just saying do it more.

  13. #808
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    Wentz>dak

    /thread

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  14. #809
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    What Dez said was teams c Ant double him and he has more room to work even saying it's more fun. This was a Sept 23 ESPN article of last season about this very thing. It was written after he struggled against the Giants playing just on the outside then having a big game against Washington playing a lot of slot.

  15. #810
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lionel20 View Post
    And that's a narrative that I hear all the time. It's just not supported by the facts. If you check Dak's Air Yards per Completion for his career, it's around 60%. The league average is 57%.

    Brady, Brees, Rivers, Ryan, Rodgers, Stafford all these QB's referred to as elite, fringe-elite... their Air Yards % are in the low 50s. They're clearly dumping the ball off and the real play makers takeover. The majority of the passes for Jared Goff and Drew Brees this season are short passes. These QB's aren't even throwing the ball 5 yards downfield, if not behind the line of scrimmage.

    What was Drew Brees before Sean Payton's system -- which began by utilizing Reggie Bush in creative play calls to enhance the short passing game. It changed Brees career. He went from decent to elite in most peoples eyes overnight.

    According to my QB value metric.

    In 2005 Brees was the 9th best passer
    In 2004 Brees was the 9th best passer
    In 2003 Brees was the 36th best passer
    In 2002 Brees was the 18th best passer

    So his average ranking was 18th in this span. And this is without applying my Air Yards Adjustment. Sean Payton brings in a system built around the scatback and suddenly Brees is a top 3 QB. Coincidence? We know what Brees was before Sean Payton, he was an average starting QB. We saw how bad Goff was before McVay. We know Belichick brings in Cassel, Garoppolo, and they all look like Tom Brady statistically. So? These QB's are more a product of genius play calling and personnel utilization than they are pure talent. My challenge, is trying to quantify that.
    You were the one who made the argument that some players stats shouldn't count as much because they were the product of a system and now you're trying to dispute the idea of who is or isn't a system QB.

    You made the argument that a system QB can be characterized as not throwing the ball downfield a lot, and now you're disputing that idea.

    I simply asked the question. If we want to quantify someone's stats based on the stats other QBs put up under them, it is more likely that Dak is a system QB given that Tony Romo put up very good stats under Garrett as well.

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