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  1. #10801
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    Jun 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by smood999 View Post
    Yes you're holding onto narratives when you can't acknowledge the things that have changed since your initial introduction to a player. Maybe you just don't watch or follow other teams that much and that's fine, but at least have an idea of what's going on before just putting things out there. Don't just assume.

    If you can find another player that has had this poor of a start and then became anything more than what you hope Frank can become, go for it.
    Today's word is "sophistry". Look it up.

    "My narrative"...you continue to deflect my simple point so you can make it about something else. I am not a "Frank supporter." I am a Knick fan. I am discouraged by Frank's play to this point but still see the possibility of progress -- that may or may not happen but I still prefer him over DSJ. I also believe the Mavs would too but that is debatable. That isn't a narrative, it's an opinion. An opinion that may possibly be correct. Unlike you, I don't see the future so maybe things look different in a year.

    I realize you will twist these words also. That's ok. It's not that important, hopefully we're just having fun here. I sure hope Frank blossoms. Obviously some of us would be happier if he didn't.

  2. #10802
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Seats View Post
    Today's word is "sophistry". Look it up.

    "My narrative"...you continue to deflect my simple point so you can make it about something else. I am not a "Frank supporter." I am a Knick fan. I am discouraged by Frank's play to this point but still see the possibility of progress -- that may or may not happen but I still prefer him over DSJ. I also believe the Mavs would too but that is debatable. That isn't a narrative, it's an opinion. An opinion that may possibly be correct. Unlike you, I don't see the future so maybe things look different in a year.

    I realize you will twist these words also. That's ok. It's not that important, hopefully we're just having fun here. I sure hope Frank blossoms. Obviously some of us would be happier if he didn't.
    When I was referring to narratives, I didn't mean your opinion of Frank or your preference. I was referring to how you described DSJ.

  3. #10803
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubba313 View Post
    Smood I agree with that string of tweets, except for one important point.

    The guy notes that DSJ has improved his shooting percentages across the board this year, but that to show his strengths he needs to have the ball in his hands.

    Isnít this the inherent problem with DSJ? He wasnít an efficient shotmaket when he was balldominant at NC St and he wasnít in his first year in Dallas. Playing alongside one of the better passers in the league in Luka Doncic likely contributed at least in part to the uptick in shooting efficiency.

    What does his shooting look like when you put the ball back in his hands full time?

    Add in that his turnover percentage is even worse playing off ball this year, and there are legitimate concerns here.

    Just because Frank is a very flawed player doesnít mean we shouldnít be cognizant of DSJís question marks.
    I completely agree. Yes, I went on a long rant...but it's mostly because I don't think they are both judged equally. You're looking at it the right way, but a lot of the posts were using this as some way to elevate Frank. The least anyone can say is that they both suck right now. Dallas wanting to trade him doesn't justify anything IMO.

    The appeal for me is getting rid of Hardaway's contract in combination with everything else. I do think that DSJ is a better roll of the dice though just based on their progress so far.

    I understand the fit concern, but at the same time I'm not sure if the Knicks should worry themselves about that yet based on where they currently stand.

  4. #10804
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    i don't see it as a narrative, i think some people just prefer Frank's fit and style of play. DSJR could very well get better but I just have more faith that Frank can become a decent offensive player than I do in DSJR becoming a decent defensive player and playmaker.

  5. #10805
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    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    i don't see it as a narrative, i think some people just prefer Frank's fit and style of play. DSJR could very well get better but I just have more faith that Frank can become a decent offensive player than I do in DSJR becoming a decent defensive player and playmaker.
    This is my general feeling; although again just for me personally I donít watch other teams like I watch the Knicks; so I feel like I have a great feel for our players but the rest of the league not nearly as much. I just havenít seen enough DSJ over the past 18 months to really know how heís developing.

  6. #10806
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    Quote Originally Posted by smood999 View Post
    I completely agree. Yes, I went on a long rant...but it's mostly because I don't think they are both judged equally. You're looking at it the right way, but a lot of the posts were using this as some way to elevate Frank. The least anyone can say is that they both suck right now. Dallas wanting to trade him doesn't justify anything IMO.

    The appeal for me is getting rid of Hardaway's contract in combination with everything else. I do think that DSJ is a better roll of the dice though just based on their progress so far.

    I understand the fit concern, but at the same time I'm not sure if the Knicks should worry themselves about that yet based on where they currently stand.
    Fair points. I think I would do the trade to get rid of Hardawayís contract, but I donít feel compelled to and wouldnít be mad if we said no and kept Frank.

  7. #10807
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    I feel like if we traded Timmy we'd end up with players like Corey Joseph or Lin instead, and while that's not really a bad thing, it's not worth trading Frank and having him flourish elsewhere, and never seeing Timmy as the #3/4 option. I don't think there is another $18m player to be had for us outside of a max guy, which we already have cap space for anyway. And i don't see us getting two maxes.

    I say stand pat and don't take any chances right now, I rather Frank fail here then watch him turn into a stud elsewhere.

  8. #10808
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    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    I feel like if we traded Timmy we'd end up with players like Corey Joseph or Lin instead, and while that's not really a bad thing, it's not worth trading Frank and having him flourish elsewhere, and never seeing Timmy as the #3/4 option. I don't think there is another $18m player to be had for us outside of a max guy, which we already have cap space for anyway. And i don't see us getting two maxes.

    I say stand pat and don't take any chances right now, I rather Frank fail here then watch him turn into a stud elsewhere.
    If we got rid of lee and Tim we could potentially have
    Dsj
    Trier
    Knox
    Kp
    Robinson on the books and about 58-64 mill in cap (depending on the pick) . So thatís Durant /Rozier (maybe we go grab kemba if we can get another couple mill) Top pick added to that core. Not saying itís likley but Iíd take the risk there
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  9. #10809
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxplayerxx23 View Post
    If we got rid of lee and Tim we could potentially have
    Dsj
    Trier
    Knox
    Kp
    Robinson on the books and about 58-64 mill in cap (depending on the pick) . So thatís Durant /Rozier (maybe we go grab kemba if we can get another couple mill) Top pick added to that core. Not saying itís likley but Iíd take the risk there
    we'd need a lot more than another couple of million for Kemba. we already have cap for Durant so its more like risking it for Rozier.

  10. #10810
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    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    we'd need a lot more than another couple of million for Kemba. we already have cap for Durant so its more like risking it for Rozier.
    2 players (or 1.5 to be conservative) on Corey Joseph's level >>>>>>> Tim.

  11. #10811
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    Jan 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by smood999 View Post
    Again, based on what? Got it...holding onto the narrative.
    Got to keep holding on. Ask Dallas why it is all of a sudden pertinent they move him.
    Last edited by cssdmark; Today at 04:44 PM.

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