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  1. #1456
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
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    At the moment, at my computer
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    12,473
    Eventually the Cubs and Cards are going to make some big signings this offseason and the Pirates are going to realize that they can't compete and they should just take the best offer they can get for Cutch




  2. #1457
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    11,518
    Quote Originally Posted by The_Killer_P's View Post
    Sorry, I don't share your opinion on Ramos. No team is giving their top prospect for one year of McCutchen. Not with the market filled with OFers. Those days are long gone. Last offseason, the Pirates wanted MLB ready players for McCutchen. I doubt their wants have changed that much in a year. The Pirates do want salary relief. Not sure why you think different. They are shopping Harrison for that very reason. Giants paying $10 million of McCutchen's $14.5 million plus getting good players back is better than getting a draft pick at the end of another sub-.500 year. Cole will of course demand a lot more talent than McCutchen for obvious reasons. You seem too fixated on the emotional "face of the franchise" angle. We also might be valuing McCutchen differently which can lead to confusion. I'm valuing him as a corner OFer. We won't see eye to eye on this one.
    Ramos is the Giants best prospect in a weak farm system. In other farm systems he would be ranked lower than 5th depending on the team.

    You seem to think the Pirates are just going to get rid of Cutch for salary relief. Do you not understand 1 year at 14.5 million is chump change? Even the Rays would keep him.

    The reason other franchise cornerstones were traded such as Stanton and Longoria for lesser prospects is because their organizations wanted to get out of those hefty contracts.

    Cutch is not due a hefty contract. He is extremely affordable. Understand that.

    If Buster Posey was due 14.5 million on a one year contract and the Giants were shopping him, would you be ok with accepting three mediocre prospects to rid yourselves of 14.5 million in this market? No, you wouldnt.

    The Pirates do not have to trade him. They can keep him for a year and let him walk next year and receive a top pick if he were to decline a qualifying offer. Or they can trade him at the trade deadline to a team in contention desperate for outfield help.

    Do you understand how much loss in revenue the Pirates would loose if they traded Cutch? You seem to put no importance whatsoever on what he means to that organization. Look at how upset Rays fans were over loosing Longo, even if he was coming off a down year. Think about how upset you would be if the Giants traded Posey or Bumgarner and felt the return was poor. Look at what the Pirates are asking for the Yankees for two years of Cole, three of their top 5 prospects. And the Yanks have a very good system.

    Do you not think that if the Pirates werent asking for Ramos that Evans wouldnt have pulled the trigger by now? Why do you think a deal hasnt been done yet? Because the Pirates have a high asking price. Either they’re asking for Ramos or they dont like anything SF has.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  3. #1458
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    39
    You seem to be under the impression that all teams and markets are created equal, they are not. $14.5 million is not the same in SF as it is in Pitt or even Tampa Bay since you brought them up.

    If the Giants were in a small market and received MLB ready players and serious salary relief for the last year of Buster Posey knowing we wouldn't bring him back, yes, I would be happy. Go look at the biggest trades of the last five years and show me the percentage of how many teams you thought received fair value. It'll be a very low percentage. Prospects are cute, MLB ready players are better. Having money to address other needs is huge in a small market.

    The Pirates don't have to trade McCutchen just as the Giants don't have to trade Ramos. The market is filled with OFers. No need to trade the farm for one year of McCutchen. Teams are smarter now.

    Here's where you're letting your emotions get the best of you and causing the most confusion for yourself. Not much revenue will be lost from trading McCutchen. Rays aren't going to lose much revenue because of Longoria leaving either. McCutchen is not going to be a Pirate beyond 2018. Fans know this. Even at the deadline, the Pirates aren't not going to get top blue chip prospects. You seem to forget the Pirates have Austin Meadows in waiting. Players come and go, even Pirates fans understand this concept. If you're worried about revenue/money, salary relief becomes all the more important.

    Stop comparing Cole and McCutchen.

    You keep asking this question, "Do you not think that if the Pirates werent asking for Ramos that Evans wouldnt have pulled the trigger by now?" . The answer is clearly no because there are OFers on the market the Giants can simply give money to rather than trade talent. Giants aren't forced into a corner and have plenty of options. The market has also been slow moving. It has nothing to do with Ramos. I'll type that again for effect, it has nothing to do with Ramos

  4. #1459
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    SSF, Ca
    Posts
    612
    So we’re not getting McCutchen?

  5. #1460
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    now Hawaii, I miss the City
    Posts
    1,642
    Would not surprise me at all

  6. #1461
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    now Hawaii, I miss the City
    Posts
    1,642
    As we all know...we're just gonna have to wait and see..it's one of the slowest offseasons in a while (esp. w/the Giants needing to fill in 2 huge holes for their OF) and we're all gonna naturally formulate theories and trade ideas to stimulate our baseball minds..the remaining FA's are gonna inevitably sign with teams before Spring training..we're just gonna have to be patient..I'm glad the Giants are
    Last edited by 4GiantWarrior9; 12-30-2017 at 05:29 PM.

  7. #1462
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    1,709
    yup.

    yyyyaaaaaawwwwwnnnn.....


    and we aren't going to like anyone they get anyway.

  8. #1463
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    With Brian Sabean
    Posts
    1,531

  9. #1464
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    San Francisco, CA
    Posts
    36,900
    Pitchers and catchers report next month.

  10. #1465
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Baseball Heaven
    Posts
    2,051
    Yeah they do!

  11. #1466
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    11,518
    Quote Originally Posted by The_Killer_P's View Post
    You seem to be under the impression that all teams and markets are created equal, they are not. $14.5 million is not the same in SF as it is in Pitt or even Tampa Bay since you brought them up.

    If the Giants were in a small market and received MLB ready players and serious salary relief for the last year of Buster Posey knowing we wouldn't bring him back, yes, I would be happy. Go look at the biggest trades of the last five years and show me the percentage of how many teams you thought received fair value. It'll be a very low percentage. Prospects are cute, MLB ready players are better. Having money to address other needs is huge in a small market.

    The Pirates don't have to trade McCutchen just as the Giants don't have to trade Ramos. The market is filled with OFers. No need to trade the farm for one year of McCutchen. Teams are smarter now.

    Here's where you're letting your emotions get the best of you and causing the most confusion for yourself. Not much revenue will be lost from trading McCutchen. Rays aren't going to lose much revenue because of Longoria leaving either. McCutchen is not going to be a Pirate beyond 2018. Fans know this. Even at the deadline, the Pirates aren't not going to get top blue chip prospects. You seem to forget the Pirates have Austin Meadows in waiting. Players come and go, even Pirates fans understand this concept. If you're worried about revenue/money, salary relief becomes all the more important.

    Stop comparing Cole and McCutchen.

    You keep asking this question, "Do you not think that if the Pirates werent asking for Ramos that Evans wouldnt have pulled the trigger by now?" . The answer is clearly no because there are OFers on the market the Giants can simply give money to rather than trade talent. Giants aren't forced into a corner and have plenty of options. The market has also been slow moving. It has nothing to do with Ramos. I'll type that again for effect, it has nothing to do with Ramos
    Hmmmm. Trade Cutchen for three below average players who have not proven anything in the major leagues on a consistent basis and have low or zero trade value or keep Cutch for a year offer him a qualifying offer and take your chances on getting a younger talent as a compensation pick?

    You act like the Pirates are desperate to unload McCutchen and his 14.5 million remaining on his contract and that Parker, Williamson, Stratton are the key ingredients to making the Pirates relevant and compete again.

    So, tell me. Why would the Pirates have any interest in Parker and Williamson when they already have a talented group of outfielders with no place to place parker/ williamson?

    You say stop comparing Cutchen to Cole yet you give no explanation as to why? How are they irrelevant?

    Do you realize if the Pirates were to legitimately shop Cutch that about a dozen teams would line up for him and offer a package 20x better than what you are proposing?

    There are free agents on the board, like you said, that the Giants can turn to. Which the Giants will likely do.


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  12. #1467
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    38,441
    Did we sign Bruce & Dyson yet or what?

    "there's no scraps in my scrapbook"

  13. #1468
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
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    At the moment, at my computer
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatelJ1010 View Post
    I like Carlos Gomez but I think his centerfield days are numbered. I see him as more of a corner outfielder, but ideally he would be a fourth outfielder.




  14. #1469
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    38,441
    We need to get a second and third outfielder to have a fourth outfielder I think.

    "there's no scraps in my scrapbook"

  15. #1470
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Golden 1 Center
    Posts
    81,006
    Just for fun predict the opening day OF:

    Pence LF, Austin Jackson CF, Bruce RF.



    “Maybe one of these days I won't fail ” - Clayton Kershaw following Dodgers World Series loss

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