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  1. #61
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    Stroman and Sanchez are two great young pitchers that will only get better. We have bought ourselves some time with Happ and Estrada to let what little we have in the minors as prospects to build up their arms and become viable options in 1 or 2 years.

    The key is going to be our drafting the next 2 years and this year. If we can get 3 solid drafts under our belt with also acquiring players in other potential deals if we don't compete this year (for players like Happ, Estrada, Tulo, Martin, Morales, maybe Donaldson)...our prospect pool will be one of the best in the majors.

    I have total faith in this management group when it comes to drafting well and on the international side of things...Look at Cleveland.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Well they said they need an arm and a bat. Otani fills both roles lol. 2 birds stoned at once.
    In all honesty, if playing both sides is the sticking point, I would let him do it for my team.

  3. #63
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    you keep saying that and youre dead wrong for years certain fans here have been saying that but its not true at all

    do some research the only reason the jays are ranked even as high as they are is they have 3 or 4 top prospects which skews the ranking, to get to the higher ranking you MUST HAVE DEPTH which we do not have..

    in fact, John manuel of Minor league ball cited the jays as having one of the weaker farms beyond Guerrero and Bichette in a recent online chat, in response to a direct question...

    when teams like the Braves and Yankees have 40-50 C+ level talents system wide and we have 23...the answer becomes crystal clear...

    We do not have one of the better farm systems, and we are nowhere close to being one. DO SOME DAMN RESEARCH

    WHAT WE HAVE IS A FEW ELITE PROSPECTS, take out Guerrero and Bichette and we're in the mid 20's

    its deliberately misleading everyone herem We brought in guys like Hernandez, Refsnyder, Montero, and Anderson from outside the organization because our own prospects Like Maile, and Smith and even Alford couldnt cut it or simply werent ready yet..Thats the truest sign of the state of our farm, so stip misleading everyone
    Last edited by mikepelfrey; 10-27-2017 at 05:46 PM.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikepelfrey View Post
    you keep saying that and youre dead wrong for years certain fans here have been saying that but its not true at all

    do some research the only reason the jays are ranked even as high as they are is they have 3 or 4 top prospects which skews the ranking, to get to the higher ranking you MUST HAVE DEPTH which we do not have..

    in fact, John manuel of Minor league ball cited the jays as having one of the weaker farms beyond Guerrero and Bichette in a recent online chat, in response to a direct question...

    when teams like the Braves and Yankees have 40-50 C+ level talents system wide and we have 23...the answer becomes crystal clear...

    We do not have one of the better farm systems, and we are nowhere close to being one. DO SOME DAMN RESEARCH

    WHAT WE HAVE IS A FEW ELITE PROSPECTS, take out Guerrero and Bichette and we're in the mid 20's

    its deliberately misleading everyone herem We brought in guys like Hernandez, Refsnyder, Montero, and Anderson from outside the organization because our own prospects Like Maile, and Smith and even Alford couldnt cut it or simply werent ready yet..Thats the truest sign of the state of our farm, so stip misleading everyone
    Oh come on man. It's not misleading at all your so biased against the farm. Ive read plenty of rave reviews on the draft or the emergence of Jansen(1st team MiLB player) and guys like Borucki, Warmoth, Pearson etc. There's tons of prospect evaluators and a ton of prospects to evaluate so many guys just don't get invested in certain teams especially non top 100 guys.

    I think it was pretty come knowledge that the team lacked AAA type guys but this upcoming season is much better then last. A year ago there wasn't one prospect as close to MLB ready as Alford-Hernandez-Urena-Jansen-Tellez would be this year. Obviously there's no reason to rush and I'm sure a couple guys like Hernandez, Carlos Ramirez and possibly a McGuire or Jansen as a backup could even start the season on the opening day roster this year.

  5. #65
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    My opinion is that the hype train is for real. Yankees have always been over rated. I'd rather earn our ranking with top prospects than a bunch of maybe's.

  6. #66
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    see thats the difference, the yankees traded 3 top 100 prospects for Gray and graduated Bird Judge, Sanchez, Montgomery and Green to their big Club and yet According to Manuel they will have 6 or 7 players in this winters top 100. look at Greens numbers 5-0 1.83 ERA, IN 69innings 103 k's thats better than Osuna for chrissakes. and Montgomery was right there With JA Happ our #3 starter

    in one season they added a potential MVP and an All -Star 30 HR catcher, a top young 1B and a lights out closer and a promising #3 or 4 starter from their system. id venture to say if our system gave us that this coming year we'd be favorites for the world Series

    where have we added a player like that?

    thats right we havent......

    Im just repeating what the experts are saying. Manuel said that outside of Guerrero and Bichette, we didnt Have "a single impact prospect in our system" those were his words not mine. he did mention that we have a few Lower level first year players with some promise but they are too far away to Make an impact in the next year or two.

    you guys keep crowing about having a top-10 system but in reality its based upon 2 players, and if you graduate them where do we stand? the Yankees graduated 5 in Bird Judge and Sanchez, Montgomery and Green and still had enough to acquire a young top of the rotation starter in Gray. who do we have if you dont include Guerrero and Bichette, that can acquire that?

    thats right nothing,

    All Im saying is the proof is in the pudding,You might not like hearing it, but thats the reality of the Situation,. He said basically the Same thing about the Mets after Rosario and Dominic Smith and I dont like it either, but he's the expert and we're not. His point being that Just because you have 1 or 2 elite prospects doesnt mean you have a healthy system. it just means you have a few elite prospects.

    All im asking for is some realism. for 2 years they've been crowing about what a great Job theyre doing on the farm and your buying it hook line and sinker, Im just saying lets see some results first.....and just remember the best Prospect we have THEY DIDNT EVEN DRAFT,
    Last edited by mikepelfrey; 10-28-2017 at 01:11 AM.

  7. #67
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    To illustrate my point I copied the last 2016 list of Manuels

    Blue Jays 1 Anthony Alford OF 21 B+ 45 60 55 x
    Blue Jays 2 Jon Harris RHP 22 B+ 45 60 50 x
    Blue Jays 3 Sean Reid-Foley RHP 20 B+ 35 60 55 x
    Blue Jays 4 Vlad Guerrero Jr. 3B 17 B+ 30 60 60 x
    Blue Jays 5 Max Pentecost C 23 B 40 50 50 x
    Blue Jays 6 Rowdy Tellez 1B 21 B 35 55 50 x
    Blue Jays 7 John Stilson RHP 25 C+ 35 45 45 x
    Blue Jays 8 A.J. Jimenez C 26 C+ 35 45 45 x
    Blue Jays 9 Dwight Smith, Jr. OF 23 C+ 35 45 45 x
    Blue Jays 10 Matthew Dean 3B 23 C+ 35 45 45 x
    Blue Jays 11 D.J. Davis OF 23 C+ 35 45 45 x
    Blue Jays 12 Richard Urena SS 20 C+ 30 50 45 x
    Blue Jays 13 Matthew Smoral LHP 22 C+ 30 50 45 x
    Blue Jays 14 Mitch Nay 3B 22 C+ 30 50 45 x
    Blue Jays 15 Clinton Hollon RHP 21 C+ 30 50 45 x
    Blue Jays 16 Justin Maese RHP 19 C+ 30 50 45 x
    Blue Jays 17 Matt Dean 1B 23 C 30 45 40 x
    Blue Jays 18 Dickie Thon 2B 24 C 30 45 40 x
    Blue Jays 19 Shane Dawson LHP 22 C 30 45 40 x
    Blue Jays 20 Lane Thomas 2B 20 C 30 45 40 x
    Blue Jays 21 Brady Dragmire RHP 23 C 35 45 30 x
    Blue Jays 22 Conner Greene RHP 21 C 30 40 40 x
    Blue Jays 23 Christian Lopes 2B 23 C 30 40 40 x
    Blue Jays 24 Emilio Guerrero 3B 23 C 30 40 40 x
    Blue Jays 25 Danny Barnes RHP 26 C 30 40 40 x
    Blue Jays 26 Marcus Knecht OF 26 C 30 40 40 x
    Blue Jays 27 Derrick Loveless OF 23 C 30 40 40 x
    Blue Jays 28 Tom Robson RHP 23 C 30 40 40 x
    Blue Jays 29 Gunnar Heidt 3B 23 C 30 40 40 x
    Blue Jays 30 Jake Anderson OF 23 C 30 40 40 x
    Blue Jays 31 Jairo Labourt LHP 21 C 30 40 40 x
    Blue Jays 32 Adonys Cardona RHP 22 C 30 40 40 x
    Blue Jays 33 Ryan Borucki LHP 22 C 30 40 40 x
    Blue Jays 34 Travis Bergen LHP 22 C 30 40 40 x
    Blue Jays 35 Gabriel Cenas 1B 22 C 30 40 40 x
    Blue Jays 36 Juan Meza RHP 18 C 30 40 40 x
    Blue Jays 37 Yeltsin Gudino SS 19 C 30 40 40 x
    Blue Jays 38 Reggie Pruitt OF 19 C 30 40 40 x
    Blue Jays 39 Freddy Rodriguez OF 19 C 30 40 40 x
    Blue Jays 40 Patrick Murphy RHP 21 C 30 40 40 x
    Blue Jays 41 John LaPrise 2B 22 C 30 40 40 x
    Blue Jays 42 Andy Burns 2B 25 C 30 35 30 x

    Yankees 1 Aaron Judge OF 24 B+ 40 60 60 x
    Yankees 2 Gary Sanchez C 23 B 40 55 50 x
    Yankees 3 Jorge Mateo SS 21 B 35 55 55 x
    Yankees 4 James Kaprielian RHP 22 B 35 55 50 x
    Yankees 5 Jacob Lindgren LHP 23 B- 35 50 45 x
    Yankees 6 Ian Clarkin LHP 21 B- 35 50 45 x
    Yankees 7 Miguel Andujar 3B 21 B- 35 50 45 x
    Yankees 8 Luis Torrens C 20 B- 35 50 45 x
    Yankees 9 Jose Campos RHP 23 C+ 35 50 40 x
    Yankees 10 Bryan Mitchell RHP 25 C+ 40 45 40 x
    Yankees 11 Johnny Barbato RHP 23 C+ 35 45 45 x
    Yankees 12 Wilkerman Garcia SS 18 C+ 30 50 45 x
    Yankees 13 Leonardo Molina OF 18 C+ 30 50 45 x
    Yankees 14 Juan De Leon OF 18 C+ 30 50 45 x
    Yankees 15 Johathan Amundaray OF 18 C+ 30 50 45 x
    Yankees 16 Dustin Fowler OF 21 C+ 35 45 45 x
    Yankees 17 Mason Williams OF 24 C+ 35 45 40 x
    Yankees 18 Robert Refsnyder 2B 25 C+ 35 45 40 x
    Yankees 19 Slade Heathcott OF 25 C+ 35 45 40 x
    Yankees 20 Tyler Austin OF 24 C+ 35 45 40 x
    Yankees 21 Luis Cessa RHP 24 C+ 35 45 40 x
    Yankees 22 Ben Gamel OF 24 C+ 35 45 40 x
    Yankees 23 Miguel Flames 1B 18 C+ 30 50 40 x
    Yankees 24 Dermis Garcia 3B 18 C+ 30 50 40 x
    Yankees 25 Nelson Gomez 3B 18 C+ 30 50 40 x
    Yankees 26 Bryan Emery OF 18 C+ 30 50 40 x
    Yankees 27 Diego Castillo SS 18 C+ 30 50 40 x
    Yankees 28 Hyo-Jun Park SS 20 C+ 30 50 40 x
    Yankees 29 Mark Montgomery RHP 25 C 30 45 40 x
    Yankees 30 Dante Bichette, Jr. 1B 23 C 30 45 40 x
    Yankees 31 Jordan Montgomery LHP 23 C 30 45 40 x
    Yankees 32 Kolton Mahoney RHP 24 C 30 45 40 x
    Yankees 33 Brady Lail RHP 22 C 35 40 40 x
    Yankees 34 Mark Payton OF 24 C 35 40 40 x
    Yankees 35 Abiatal Avelino 2B 21 C 30 45 40 x
    Yankees 36 Austin Aune OF 22 C 30 45 40 x
    Yankees 37 Thairo Estrada 2B 20 C 30 45 40 x
    Yankees 38 Kyle Holder SS 22 C 30 45 40 x
    Yankees 39 Ty Hensley RHP 22 C 30 45 40 x
    Yankees 40 Isiah Gilliam OF 19 C 30 45 40 x
    Yankees 41 Drew Finley RHP 19 C 30 45 40 x
    Yankees 42 Cito Culver 3B 23 C 30 40 40 x
    Yankees 43 Taylor Dugas OF 26 C 30 40 40 x
    Yankees 44 Kyle Roller 1B 28 C 30 40 40 x
    Yankees 45 Tyler Wade SS 21 C 30 40 40 x
    Yankees 46 Angelo Gumbs 2B 23 C 30 40 40 x
    Yankees 47 Jeffrey Degano LHP 23 C 30 40 40 x
    Yankees 48 Gosuke Katoh 2B 21 C 30 40 40 x
    Yankees 49 Austin DeCarr RHP 21 C 30 40 40 x


    FOR COMPARISON THE JAYS HAD 6 B OR B+PROSPECTS THE YANKEES 10

    FOR COMPARISON THE JAYS HAD 10 C+PROSPECTS THE YANKEES 20

    obviously in the last year things have changed but until his new book comes out so I can buy it, this is as recent as I can go. but 6 B or B+ Prospects is pretty average among all teams. its the 10 C+ that scares me because most teams have 12-16

    the reason we arent rated lower is Due to Bichette and Guerrero because they are so strong , but as you can see the rest isnt that strong

    and remember these arent my rankings these are all independent

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikepelfrey View Post
    To illustrate my point I copied the last 2016 list of Manuels

    Blue Jays 1 Anthony Alford OF 21 B+ 45 60 55 x
    Blue Jays 2 Jon Harris RHP 22 B+ 45 60 50 x
    Blue Jays 3 Sean Reid-Foley RHP 20 B+ 35 60 55 x
    Blue Jays 4 Vlad Guerrero Jr. 3B 17 B+ 30 60 60 x
    Blue Jays 5 Max Pentecost C 23 B 40 50 50 x
    Blue Jays 6 Rowdy Tellez 1B 21 B 35 55 50 x
    Blue Jays 7 John Stilson RHP 25 C+ 35 45 45 x
    Blue Jays 8 A.J. Jimenez C 26 C+ 35 45 45 x
    Blue Jays 9 Dwight Smith, Jr. OF 23 C+ 35 45 45 x
    Blue Jays 10 Matthew Dean 3B 23 C+ 35 45 45 x
    Blue Jays 11 D.J. Davis OF 23 C+ 35 45 45 x
    Blue Jays 12 Richard Urena SS 20 C+ 30 50 45 x
    Blue Jays 13 Matthew Smoral LHP 22 C+ 30 50 45 x
    Blue Jays 14 Mitch Nay 3B 22 C+ 30 50 45 x
    Blue Jays 15 Clinton Hollon RHP 21 C+ 30 50 45 x
    Blue Jays 16 Justin Maese RHP 19 C+ 30 50 45 x
    Blue Jays 17 Matt Dean 1B 23 C 30 45 40 x
    Blue Jays 18 Dickie Thon 2B 24 C 30 45 40 x
    Blue Jays 19 Shane Dawson LHP 22 C 30 45 40 x
    Blue Jays 20 Lane Thomas 2B 20 C 30 45 40 x
    Blue Jays 21 Brady Dragmire RHP 23 C 35 45 30 x
    Blue Jays 22 Conner Greene RHP 21 C 30 40 40 x
    Blue Jays 23 Christian Lopes 2B 23 C 30 40 40 x
    Blue Jays 24 Emilio Guerrero 3B 23 C 30 40 40 x
    Blue Jays 25 Danny Barnes RHP 26 C 30 40 40 x
    Blue Jays 26 Marcus Knecht OF 26 C 30 40 40 x
    Blue Jays 27 Derrick Loveless OF 23 C 30 40 40 x
    Blue Jays 28 Tom Robson RHP 23 C 30 40 40 x
    Blue Jays 29 Gunnar Heidt 3B 23 C 30 40 40 x
    Blue Jays 30 Jake Anderson OF 23 C 30 40 40 x
    Blue Jays 31 Jairo Labourt LHP 21 C 30 40 40 x
    Blue Jays 32 Adonys Cardona RHP 22 C 30 40 40 x
    Blue Jays 33 Ryan Borucki LHP 22 C 30 40 40 x
    Blue Jays 34 Travis Bergen LHP 22 C 30 40 40 x
    Blue Jays 35 Gabriel Cenas 1B 22 C 30 40 40 x
    Blue Jays 36 Juan Meza RHP 18 C 30 40 40 x
    Blue Jays 37 Yeltsin Gudino SS 19 C 30 40 40 x
    Blue Jays 38 Reggie Pruitt OF 19 C 30 40 40 x
    Blue Jays 39 Freddy Rodriguez OF 19 C 30 40 40 x
    Blue Jays 40 Patrick Murphy RHP 21 C 30 40 40 x
    Blue Jays 41 John LaPrise 2B 22 C 30 40 40 x
    Blue Jays 42 Andy Burns 2B 25 C 30 35 30 x

    Yankees 1 Aaron Judge OF 24 B+ 40 60 60 x
    Yankees 2 Gary Sanchez C 23 B 40 55 50 x
    Yankees 3 Jorge Mateo SS 21 B 35 55 55 x
    Yankees 4 James Kaprielian RHP 22 B 35 55 50 x
    Yankees 5 Jacob Lindgren LHP 23 B- 35 50 45 x
    Yankees 6 Ian Clarkin LHP 21 B- 35 50 45 x
    Yankees 7 Miguel Andujar 3B 21 B- 35 50 45 x
    Yankees 8 Luis Torrens C 20 B- 35 50 45 x
    Yankees 9 Jose Campos RHP 23 C+ 35 50 40 x
    Yankees 10 Bryan Mitchell RHP 25 C+ 40 45 40 x
    Yankees 11 Johnny Barbato RHP 23 C+ 35 45 45 x
    Yankees 12 Wilkerman Garcia SS 18 C+ 30 50 45 x
    Yankees 13 Leonardo Molina OF 18 C+ 30 50 45 x
    Yankees 14 Juan De Leon OF 18 C+ 30 50 45 x
    Yankees 15 Johathan Amundaray OF 18 C+ 30 50 45 x
    Yankees 16 Dustin Fowler OF 21 C+ 35 45 45 x
    Yankees 17 Mason Williams OF 24 C+ 35 45 40 x
    Yankees 18 Robert Refsnyder 2B 25 C+ 35 45 40 x
    Yankees 19 Slade Heathcott OF 25 C+ 35 45 40 x
    Yankees 20 Tyler Austin OF 24 C+ 35 45 40 x
    Yankees 21 Luis Cessa RHP 24 C+ 35 45 40 x
    Yankees 22 Ben Gamel OF 24 C+ 35 45 40 x
    Yankees 23 Miguel Flames 1B 18 C+ 30 50 40 x
    Yankees 24 Dermis Garcia 3B 18 C+ 30 50 40 x
    Yankees 25 Nelson Gomez 3B 18 C+ 30 50 40 x
    Yankees 26 Bryan Emery OF 18 C+ 30 50 40 x
    Yankees 27 Diego Castillo SS 18 C+ 30 50 40 x
    Yankees 28 Hyo-Jun Park SS 20 C+ 30 50 40 x
    Yankees 29 Mark Montgomery RHP 25 C 30 45 40 x
    Yankees 30 Dante Bichette, Jr. 1B 23 C 30 45 40 x
    Yankees 31 Jordan Montgomery LHP 23 C 30 45 40 x
    Yankees 32 Kolton Mahoney RHP 24 C 30 45 40 x
    Yankees 33 Brady Lail RHP 22 C 35 40 40 x
    Yankees 34 Mark Payton OF 24 C 35 40 40 x
    Yankees 35 Abiatal Avelino 2B 21 C 30 45 40 x
    Yankees 36 Austin Aune OF 22 C 30 45 40 x
    Yankees 37 Thairo Estrada 2B 20 C 30 45 40 x
    Yankees 38 Kyle Holder SS 22 C 30 45 40 x
    Yankees 39 Ty Hensley RHP 22 C 30 45 40 x
    Yankees 40 Isiah Gilliam OF 19 C 30 45 40 x
    Yankees 41 Drew Finley RHP 19 C 30 45 40 x
    Yankees 42 Cito Culver 3B 23 C 30 40 40 x
    Yankees 43 Taylor Dugas OF 26 C 30 40 40 x
    Yankees 44 Kyle Roller 1B 28 C 30 40 40 x
    Yankees 45 Tyler Wade SS 21 C 30 40 40 x
    Yankees 46 Angelo Gumbs 2B 23 C 30 40 40 x
    Yankees 47 Jeffrey Degano LHP 23 C 30 40 40 x
    Yankees 48 Gosuke Katoh 2B 21 C 30 40 40 x
    Yankees 49 Austin DeCarr RHP 21 C 30 40 40 x


    FOR COMPARISON THE JAYS HAD 6 B OR B+PROSPECTS THE YANKEES 10

    FOR COMPARISON THE JAYS HAD 10 C+PROSPECTS THE YANKEES 20

    obviously in the last year things have changed but until his new book comes out so I can buy it, this is as recent as I can go. but 6 B or B+ Prospects is pretty average among all teams. its the 10 C+ that scares me because most teams have 12-16

    the reason we arent rated lower is Due to Bichette and Guerrero because they are so strong , but as you can see the rest isnt that strong

    and remember these arent my rankings these are all independent
    That doesn't look like a list from last year at all more like 2014-15 . Stilson? AJJ? Matt Dean is so good he's there number 10 and number 17 spec. And like I said your not saying what the experts are saying your cherry picking one out of dozens of list and using his words that by all means look ridiculous.

    This list says nothing about the Jays prospect list today not even close. Hell thereís guys who were released after the 2014 season in this list or guys who were in the David Price trade. It makes no sense at all. Iím surprised Deck McGuire isnít in the top 10 on that list.
    Last edited by LanceUpperCut; 10-28-2017 at 12:22 PM.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikepelfrey View Post
    see thats the difference, the yankees traded 3 top 100 prospects for Gray and graduated Bird Judge, Sanchez, Montgomery and Green to their big Club and yet According to Manuel they will have 6 or 7 players in this winters top 100. look at Greens numbers 5-0 1.83 ERA, IN 69innings 103 k's thats better than Osuna for chrissakes. and Montgomery was right there With JA Happ our #3 starter

    in one season they added a potential MVP and an All -Star 30 HR catcher, a top young 1B and a lights out closer and a promising #3 or 4 starter from their system. id venture to say if our system gave us that this coming year we'd be favorites for the world Series

    where have we added a player like that?

    thats right we havent......

    Im just repeating what the experts are saying. Manuel said that outside of Guerrero and Bichette, we didnt Have "a single impact prospect in our system" those were his words not mine. he did mention that we have a few Lower level first year players with some promise but they are too far away to Make an impact in the next year or two.

    you guys keep crowing about having a top-10 system but in reality its based upon 2 players, and if you graduate them where do we stand? the Yankees graduated 5 in Bird Judge and Sanchez, Montgomery and Green and still had enough to acquire a young top of the rotation starter in Gray. who do we have if you dont include Guerrero and Bichette, that can acquire that?

    thats right nothing,

    All Im saying is the proof is in the pudding,You might not like hearing it, but thats the reality of the Situation,. He said basically the Same thing about the Mets after Rosario and Dominic Smith and I dont like it either, but he's the expert and we're not. His point being that Just because you have 1 or 2 elite prospects doesnt mean you have a healthy system. it just means you have a few elite prospects.

    All im asking for is some realism. for 2 years they've been crowing about what a great Job theyre doing on the farm and your buying it hook line and sinker, Im just saying lets see some results first.....and just remember the best Prospect we have THEY DIDNT EVEN DRAFT,
    Gotta agree with you on this one, we are a long way from a top farm as we sit here today.

    Sent from my SM-T530NU using Tapatalk
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  10. #70
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    I guess it depends what your calling a top farm. Iím pretty confident in it being in the top 8-14 range and trending upwards. Hell it was nominated for one of the best farms in the MiLBY awards.
    Last edited by LanceUpperCut; 10-28-2017 at 12:43 PM.

  11. #71
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    The farm isn't an elite one, but I don't think it's awful either. Vlad and Bichette do count though. Rowdy, Urena, and Foley are still young enough to matter and have potential. Considering they haven't traded anyone that mattered and haven't picked in the top 5 for a while I think the farm is in decent shape. They need more depth for trades, but they have two potential stars. You can get bench guys for cheap in FA so I think they are ok. With a relatively high pick in 18 and some gains internally I think they can move up the rankings.

  12. #72
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    This I agree with, it's a decent farm because of 2 or 3 players but after that the talent drops off. it just bothers me that some keep trying to say this is some juggernaut waiting to blossom.

    And yes lance that is from the 2016 book. The problem is that Manuel sees teams throughout the year and some teams he sees earlier than others. You'll note that not one of the 11 prospects the Yankees acquired last July are on that list either. And most of them were B or better prospects. That's the problem with publishing. The lag time.

    The point is though that even with the improvements we've obviously added. We still aren't that deep which does matter. Most of our rating is based on Guerrero and Bichette.

    I just wanted to give an accurate depiction as best I could so that we aren't misled as fans. During the year Manuel loved our top picks from 2017 so the system is on the upswing which is very positive, but it's not to be confused with a soon to be elite one.

    When I get the new book, when it's released, i'll post the updated rankings. I just get tired of the same people posting how great our farm is when the evidence says it's basically 2-3 players, 2-3 potentially elite players yes. Definitely so, but 2-3 players does not a great farm system make.

    I believe an informed fan base is a better fan base. We can't evaluate Shapkins accurately without a better picture of where we stand and that's all I'm doing. The 2017 draft was better, and I think the Teoscar Hernandez deal was great. So there is hope.But there is still a lot of work to do. Don't let Rogers and co. fool you into believing we're further along than we are.

    That's really all I'm trying to say. If we fall for the corporate speak, then we only have ourselves to blame. Remember I've been through this before with the Wilpons. And sadly I found out a dose of skepticism is healthy


    any of you who love the prospect side of things, GET THE BOOK, its usually about $25 dollars but I promise you if you get it once youll never not buy it again, I literally read it in one sitting when I get it and then use it again and again during the season.....it is excellent I wish it came out in ebook form so I could send you all a copy, but I suspect thats why it doesnt. spend the money guys. I swear youll thank me
    Last edited by mikepelfrey; 10-28-2017 at 03:22 PM.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikepelfrey View Post
    This I agree with, it's a decent farm because of 2 or 3 players but after that the talent drops off. it just bothers me that some keep trying to say this is some juggernaut waiting to blossom.

    And yes lance that is from the 2016 book. The problem is that Manuel sees teams throughout the year and some teams he sees earlier than others. You'll note that not one of the 11 prospects the Yankees acquired last July are on that list either. And most of them were B or better prospects. That's the problem with publishing. The lag time.

    The point is though that even with the improvements we've obviously added. We still aren't that deep which does matter. Most of our rating is based on Guerrero and Bichette.

    I just wanted to give an accurate depiction as best I could so that we aren't misled as fans. During the year Manuel loved our top picks from 2017 so the system is on the upswing which is very positive, but it's not to be confused with a soon to be elite one.

    When I get the new book, when it's released, i'll post the updated rankings. I just get tired of the same people posting how great our farm is when the evidence says it's basically 2-3 players, 2-3 potentially elite players yes. Definitely so, but 2-3 players does not a great farm system make.

    I believe an informed fan base is a better fan base. We can't evaluate Shapkins accurately without a better picture of where we stand and that's all I'm doing. The 2017 draft was better, and I think the Teoscar Hernandez deal was great. So there is hope.But there is still a lot of work to do. Don't let Rogers and co. fool you into believing we're further along than we are.

    That's really all I'm trying to say. If we fall for the corporate speak, then we only have ourselves to blame. Remember I've been through this before with the Wilpons. And sadly I found out a dose of skepticism is healthy


    any of you who love the prospect side of things, GET THE BOOK, its usually about $25 dollars but I promise you if you get it once youll never not buy it again, I literally read it in one sitting when I get it and then use it again and again during the season.....it is excellent I wish it came out in ebook form so I could send you all a copy, but I suspect thats why it doesnt. spend the money guys. I swear youll thank me
    You don't need the book to see that the system has a few players who could be superstars and not much else. They need to re-stock the pitching in the minor leagues or this team could be in real trouble in 1-2 years time.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikepelfrey View Post
    This I agree with, it's a decent farm because of 2 or 3 players but after that the talent drops off. it just bothers me that some keep trying to say this is some juggernaut waiting to blossom.

    And yes lance that is from the 2016 book. The problem is that Manuel sees teams throughout the year and some teams he sees earlier than others. You'll note that not one of the 11 prospects the Yankees acquired last July are on that list either. And most of them were B or better prospects. That's the problem with publishing. The lag time.

    The point is though that even with the improvements we've obviously added. We still aren't that deep which does matter. Most of our rating is based on Guerrero and Bichette.

    I just wanted to give an accurate depiction as best I could so that we aren't misled as fans. During the year Manuel loved our top picks from 2017 so the system is on the upswing which is very positive, but it's not to be confused with a soon to be elite one.

    When I get the new book, when it's released, i'll post the updated rankings. I just get tired of the same people posting how great our farm is when the evidence says it's basically 2-3 players, 2-3 potentially elite players yes. Definitely so, but 2-3 players does not a great farm system make.

    I believe an informed fan base is a better fan base. We can't evaluate Shapkins accurately without a better picture of where we stand and that's all I'm doing. The 2017 draft was better, and I think the Teoscar Hernandez deal was great. So there is hope.But there is still a lot of work to do. Don't let Rogers and co. fool you into believing we're further along than we are.

    That's really all I'm trying to say. If we fall for the corporate speak, then we only have ourselves to blame. Remember I've been through this before with the Wilpons. And sadly I found out a dose of skepticism is healthy


    any of you who love the prospect side of things, GET THE BOOK, its usually about $25 dollars but I promise you if you get it once youll never not buy it again, I literally read it in one sitting when I get it and then use it again and again during the season.....it is excellent I wish it came out in ebook form so I could send you all a copy, but I suspect thats why it doesnt. spend the money guys. I swear youll thank me


    Mike if your getting your info from an article like the list you posted then you are the one being misleading. I could literally point out a handful of things that make zero sense at all and say's absolutely nothing about are farm today. It doesn't even have draft picks from 2016 on it.

    Baseball America's latest rankings had the Jays as the 9th best system and sure it's strength is it's top 3 it also has the 4th most 50+ plus overall specs.

    I'd say come back to this once some updated info comes out cause your reading some crazy outdated stuff and a couple seasons make a world of difference. I don't know how close you've followed the Jays farm over the last couple years but if you did you would see how outdated that list is compared to todays list.

  15. #75
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    6,255
    Who keeps saying our system is a juggernaut? Everyone is high on Vladdy, Bichette and Pearson. Most are high on Alford, Borucki and Warmouth too.

    The problem is most guys are still too young or inexperienced to rank very high. What I like about what they have done in the drafts the last 2 years is they have actually drafted some solid hitting prospects instead of just arms. It's been so long since we graduated a home grown impact bat from the farm.

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