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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by La_bibbers View Post
    It's not Von Miller expectation, it's more like Chandler Jones (at least as far as production), or heck, Adewale Ogunleye. Just a guy who'll get to the quarterback on a consistent basis, which is what the expectation SHOULD be for an edge rusher taken in the top 10. I certainly don't think the expectation is of a generational talent like Miller.
    He's not strictly an edge rusher though. He has more versatility than most due to his athleticism, so he's not rushing the passer on every snap.

    He definitely needs to improve that area of his game, no question, but he's still a little raw and just barely over 1 season of pro experience. Maybe take a deep breath and let him develop.

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  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by DamnGoat View Post
    He's not strictly an edge rusher though. He has more versatility than most due to his athleticism, so he's not rushing the passer on every snap.

    He definitely needs to improve that area of his game, no question, but he's still a little raw and just barely over 1 season of pro experience. Maybe take a deep breath and let him develop.

    Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
    I have no problem being patient, I just don't see how people can be super encouraged at this juncture. He's obviously got all the athleticism in the world but so do a lot of guys who never pan out. Not trying to kill the party or anything, just saying at this point, I'm far from comfortable putting all the eggs in his basket, and that I fully expect the Bears to be in need of a legitimate pass rushing threat.

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  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stunner View Post
    Dewrin James nuff said
    A lot of hype right now. Not saying he isn't good. But he essentially missed last year and to me. I need to see him play out this year. If he lives up to the hype sure.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by La_bibbers View Post
    I have no problem being patient, I just don't see how people can be super encouraged at this juncture. He's obviously got all the athleticism in the world but so do a lot of guys who never pan out. Not trying to kill the party or anything, just saying at this point, I'm far from comfortable putting all the eggs in his basket, and that I fully expect the Bears to be in need of a legitimate pass rushing threat.
    I don't see any reason to be super discouraged either. He does plenty of things well. You're just kinda pushing those aside and focusing strictly on his pass rushing. I think we all agree that he needs to be better there, but I don't see any reason to be so down on the guy.

    He was very good as a Rookie (widely regarded as one of the 10 best Rookies last year), was developing nicely as a pass rusher before missing the last 4 games of the season, and has been (and still is) a plus run defender and coverage LB from the beginning. It's not like we're looking at another Sheamus here.

    And the Bears are going to need another pass rushing threat regardless. They're counting on McPhee on limited snaps and Willie Young... neither of which are anything more than stopgap options at this point in their careers. It's easily a top 3 need for this Defense no matter what happens with Floyd.

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  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by DamnGoat View Post
    I don't see any reason to be super discouraged either. He does plenty of things well. You're just kinda pushing those aside and focusing strictly on his pass rushing. I think we all agree that he needs to be better there, but I don't see any reason to be so down on the guy.

    He was very good as a Rookie (widely regarded as one of the 10 best Rookies last year), was developing nicely as a pass rusher before missing the last 4 games of the season, and has been (and still is) a plus run defender and coverage LB from the beginning. It's not like we're looking at another Sheamus here.

    And the Bears are going to need another pass rushing threat regardless. They're counting on McPhee on limited snaps and Willie Young... neither of which are anything more than stopgap options at this point in their careers. It's easily a top 3 need for this Defense no matter what happens with Floyd.

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    I'm discouraged because his number one job by far is to rush the passer (which, PFF rates him as literally being the worst at among qualifying edge rushers) and he if can't do that then none of those other things matter very much in my mind, idk. I realize it's still early but that's pretty discouraging coming from a top 10 pick is all. In my mind, he's a huge culprit for the Bears' lack of any kind of pass rush this year.

    Also I know PFF isn't the be all end all, but it pretty much matches what we've seen. He's been largely invisible despite being a solid run defender.
    Last edited by La_bibbers; 09-27-2017 at 02:24 PM.

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  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by La_bibbers View Post
    I'm discouraged because his number one job by far is to rush the passer (which, PFF rates him as literally being the worst at among qualifying edge rushers) and he if can't do that then none of those other things matter very much in my mind, idk. I realize it's still early but that's pretty discouraging coming from a top 10 pick is all. In my mind, he's a huge culprit for the Bears' lack of any kind of pass rush this year.

    Also I know PFF isn't the be all end all, but it pretty much matches what we've seen. He's been largely invisible despite being a solid run defender.
    Just want to comment that I am finding myself disagreeing with more and more PFF grades the more I pay attention to them. I think they make a mistake in weighing every single play equally in the course of a game, and fail to account for situational items (double / triple teams, QB spies, specific stunts or gap assignments when regarding a pass rusher). The only way to grade a player in their methodology is to know what that players job was on that play, which only coaches know to a T.

    Just my two cents. Was expecting more out of Flo thus far as a pass rusher but am absolutely encouraged by his play elsewhere, and the fact that fangio brought up that Flo hasn't been put in as many pass rushing situations (very similar to early last year iirc) is somewhat telling to me. But more I see PFF grow more I am left scratching my head by some of their grades as they seem to be based on pretty general stats as opposed to the in depth game tape and analysis.
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  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by La_bibbers View Post
    I'm discouraged because his number one job by far is to rush the passer (which, PFF rates him as literally being the worst at among qualifying edge rushers) and he if can't do that then none of those other things matter very much in my mind, idk. I realize it's still early but that's pretty discouraging coming from a top 10 pick is all. In my mind, he's a huge culprit for the Bears' lack of any kind of pass rush this year.

    Also I know PFF isn't the be all end all, but it pretty much matches what we've seen. He's been largely invisible despite being a solid run defender.
    If you're going to cite PFF then let's not ignore the 12 games from last year where he mostly graded out positively as a pass rusher. He hasn't even played a full season worth of games yet.

    Literally nobody is suggesting he's been good as a pass rusher this year either. All I'm doing is pointing out that he's not used exclusively as one and performs well as a run defender and in coverage. He's dropped into coverage a lot these first few weeks, and it seems like a lot of that has been gameplan dependent since we've played some talented Offenses.

    Again, he hasn't been good, but neither has 2/3 of the DL or any other Edge Rusher besides McPhee on a very limited snap count. None of them besides Hicks in Wk1 have consistently gotten there. Every single one of them needs to be better.

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    Last edited by DamnGoat; 09-27-2017 at 03:08 PM.

  8. #23
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    Would think defensive game plan last week hurt pass rush some too, with focus being on holding each gap in anticipation of Bell since he patiently waits before bouncing first gap to open up. Think that was a large reason for defensive success last week that cost pass rush some but paid out over course of the game.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by DamnGoat View Post
    Yeah, love him. He's probably just as good of a prospect, if not better than Ramsey from 2 years ago. More likely to stick at FS, big time playmaker.

    If the Bears end up being bad enough for a top 5 pick again, he's far & away my top choice.

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    I like Ramsey better. More athletic from what I've seen, and while I like James I'd stay clear of any early draft picks with an injury history with the way things have been going for us. OLB Ferrell from Clemson is my early draft crush.

  10. #25
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    I get the injury concerns. I really wish there were a stud WR in this draft. A lot of decent ones, but nobody I'd be comfortable with in the 1st.

    I like Landry from BC if we're looking at another pass rusher. Pretty good chance he's one of the first ones off the board.

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  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by dikimbemutumbo View Post
    Just want to comment that I am finding myself disagreeing with more and more PFF grades the more I pay attention to them. I think they make a mistake in weighing every single play equally in the course of a game, and fail to account for situational items (double / triple teams, QB spies, specific stunts or gap assignments when regarding a pass rusher). The only way to grade a player in their methodology is to know what that players job was on that play, which only coaches know to a T.

    Just my two cents. Was expecting more out of Flo thus far as a pass rusher but am absolutely encouraged by his play elsewhere, and the fact that fangio brought up that Flo hasn't been put in as many pass rushing situations (very similar to early last year iirc) is somewhat telling to me. But more I see PFF grow more I am left scratching my head by some of their grades as they seem to be based on pretty general stats as opposed to the in depth game tape and analysis.
    Not sure Im in too much with the nickname Flo. Sounds like the name of the old woman that likes to bake everyone in the nieghborhood fresh apple pies.

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  12. #27
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    Would y'all consider targeting Allen Robinson this offseason considering him coming off the acl?

  13. #28
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  14. #29
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    Pick him up. Much better than Barf.

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  15. #30
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    2017 FA/Trades/Cuts/General FO Office Discussion Vol IV

    Two guys I'm keeping an eye on is Arden Key from LSU and Malik Jefferson from Texas. Keep building this front 7. But there are a lot of good defensive prospects and OT in the early rounds of this draft.

    If the Bears could add a player like Jarvis Landry I'd be all for it.

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