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  1. #3166
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    Quote Originally Posted by crewfan13 View Post
    Why would Detroit do Kennard and rose for Bled too? You'd have to throw in the pick at the very least. They know they aren't competing next year, even with Blake. So I can't imagine Bledsoe is of major interest to them. So why trade the younger Kennard for an older Bled who doesn't make you much better?

    At least a team like Indy, who finished 4th this year without Vic for most the year could think Bled adds to their team.
    A pick would only make this trade work. Detroit is trying to rebuild. Although they can build value in Bledsoe by unleashing him by letting him chunk away. Kinda like the Phoenix days

  2. #3167
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    Quote Originally Posted by gopackgo87 View Post
    I feel like there is a ton of chatter about CP3 but it is extremely unlikely. I think his attitude and mindset is needed but at 40 million...CP3/Midd and Giannis make over 100 million. That leaves what 35 million roughly for the rest of the roster? No way that's enough,. This team needs less specialists who are basically completely dependent on Giannis to get their shot. This team has very little guys who can cook on their own or playmake. You need some shooters but bucks need a better mix. In playoffs Bledsoe shrinks and isn't that so then it's basically Midd/GA. That's it. Hill isn't creating shots for others either really. This team needs a PG or SG who can take over, get their own or create for others. Oladipo I like because if healthy he can do some of that and is a good defender. Then a Lou Williams type would be great as a microwave off the bench. Would be huge for this team at playoff time to be able to sit GA and Midd doesn't have to do a ton of creating as he is fine but not great at it.

    This team needs a playmaking PG who can also shoot well enough to make you honor it. Then if you had Oladipo/Midd on the wing...OK. I go after Dragic for MLE or maybe Favors as a backup big. Maybe Olynyk as fall back.
    I 100% agree!! I've wanting this team to load up talented guys even before our let down to Toronto. I always look at ways to add talent with guys that would go get it not system guys and good community guys that so warming to management and fans that would fall apart in the playoffs. Even this past I would've signed Melo and Jeff Green. These are guys that was just sitting around out of the league for some time. And look what they did this year. If we do trade for someone like cp3, Holiday, or VO I would look to sign proven weapons guys that can create for cheap. For some examples like IT. He had surgery on his hip months ago and he now feels great. Imagine we give him a vet min and he can return to at least 80 to 90 percent. Look at a guy like Cousins imagine giving him a cheap deal and what if he brings at 80 to 90 percent. Look at a guy like Alec Burks. He even showed when given opportunity that he could bring it. I would look in Trey Burkes, Millsap, GR3 and even Jamal Crawford.
    See with a guy like Giannis there is a need to surround the big gun with effective weapons. This would leave teams scrambling on defense because they throw so much at Giannis now what u going to do when these guys are all attacking....We becomes a juggernaut!!

  3. #3168
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    Quote Originally Posted by BUCK WILD!! View Post
    A pick would only make this trade work. Detroit is trying to rebuild. Although they can build value in Bledsoe by unleashing him by letting him chunk away. Kinda like the Phoenix days
    I know he wanted out and that was part of it, but his value after his chucking days in Phoenix was Greg Monroe and a heavily protected pick. So it's not like he's going to be a ton more valuable as a lead player.

    I think Bled has shown in milwaukee that his best role is a bulldog defender and secondary offensive option. Thats the most valuable version of him. That version doesn't do Detroit much good. That version could be valuable to a team like Indy. Or maybe others like LAC or LAL. He has value to other teams as well, but it's probably lower and you need to attach a legit asset to him to move him. Like NO. He could play a similar role to what Jrue did last year, but hes not as good as Jrue. So to make it work, you need to also send them salary relief and young players/picks.

    And that's where I dont get the Detroit side of this. Unless the pick is going. The it begs the question, is Bled and the pick actually better than Rose and Kennard. I think it's probably a wash or at least close to a wash.

    Plus, Rose is an awkward fit. He's a worsen outside shooter than Bledsoe and he's an on ball player. Part of the reason Rose looked good in Detroit was because their team stunk and he got to be the guy. He'd be the 3rd guy here at best, at least when it comes to handling the offensive load. You're not going to park giannis in the corner to shoot. You need to run plays through Kris to make sure he stays involved, so Rose basically is your bench scorer type. Does it really make sense to move your best perimeter defender for a guy who may not be able to play alongside giannis all that much? Kennard might be a good fit, but his defensive issues might be awkward too, depending what the rest of the roster looks like.

  4. #3169
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    Rose is at an awkward stage in his career. Guys like Melo have gotten there recently and in the past even guys like Monta Ellis get there and it's hard to adjust. Westbrook is on a path to that role as well. Rose is absolutely still one of the best 150 players in the league. So by that metric, hes a starting caliber player (5 starters x 30 teams).

    But his play style is still that of a top 20 player. He isn't a complimentary player at all. He needs the ball. He's not a shoot off the ball guy and he's a mediocre at best defender. He actually shot fairly well in catch and shoot last year, but he took less than 1 catch and shoot 3 per game.

    Rose is at the point where he either needs to be one of the better players on a crappy team, or accept a role as a 15-18 minute bench guy who probably isn't part of the closing lineup consistently. Adjusting to that latter role is tough for formerly good players. Maybe Rose does it well, but are we really making one of our only moves of the offseason to potentially keep Giannis a move that nets us a 15-18 minute a night bench guard? I know we get Kennard too, who could be valuable, but that seems light, espeically when youre throwing in at least a draft pick for it to make sense.

  5. #3170
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    Quote Originally Posted by crewfan13 View Post
    How much do you think VO makes? Bledsoe and DJ match salary alone. So something like Bled, DJ and their pick back could work. Or if they prefer DD to the pick, Bled and DD get it done too.

    And VO would more or less play some point for us too. DD already did it for stretches last year. So Vic and possibly a guy like Wes start with Hill as the backup. Vic would basically just take Bledsoe's minutes. And maybe in the closing lineup he takes some minutes from Wes and he and Hill play together.

    With Giannis and Middleton, you don't need a traditional PG. Vic could absolutely operate nominally as your PG.
    I can see offensively, we might be able to get by without a traditional PG, but your telling me that VO can cover Kemba, Lowry and other teams that have quick PG's? It seemed to me that we got exposed defensively even with Bledsoe in the Heat series. Dragic was mostly uncoverable. I doubt VO improves the team playing in place of Bledsoe. My dream pickup would be Dragic, but that's likely just a dream. I'd offer the full 4 year MLE contract.

  6. #3171
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    Quote Originally Posted by crewfan13 View Post
    Why would Detroit do Kennard and rose for Bled too? You'd have to throw in the pick at the very least. They know they aren't competing next year, even with Blake. So I can't imagine Bledsoe is of major interest to them. So why trade the younger Kennard for an older Bled who doesn't make you much better?

    At least a team like Indy, who finished 4th this year without Vic for most the year could think Bled adds to their team.
    This is a trade in the trade challenge, where they are starting with 16 trades going head to head to find the best one. Wasn't my idea. And I hate Rose, but thought Kennard for Bledsoe would be a win for the Bucks and Rose has some value, especially with Bledsoe gone. This trade advanced in round 1, so you should be able to follow it.

    I believe they thought Milwaukee should get trade compensation besides Kennard and Rose. Sounded Crazy to me, but I wanted Kennard last year.

  7. #3172
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    Quote Originally Posted by BUCK WILD!! View Post
    I 100% agree!! I've wanting this team to load up talented guys even before our let down to Toronto. I always look at ways to add talent with guys that would go get it not system guys and good community guys that so warming to management and fans that would fall apart in the playoffs. Even this past I would've signed Melo and Jeff Green. These are guys that was just sitting around out of the league for some time. And look what they did this year. If we do trade for someone like cp3, Holiday, or VO I would look to sign proven weapons guys that can create for cheap. For some examples like IT. He had surgery on his hip months ago and he now feels great. Imagine we give him a vet min and he can return to at least 80 to 90 percent. Look at a guy like Cousins imagine giving him a cheap deal and what if he brings at 80 to 90 percent. Look at a guy like Alec Burks. He even showed when given opportunity that he could bring it. I would look in Trey Burkes, Millsap, GR3 and even Jamal Crawford.
    See with a guy like Giannis there is a need to surround the big gun with effective weapons. This would leave teams scrambling on defense because they throw so much at Giannis now what u going to do when these guys are all attacking....We becomes a juggernaut!!
    But what I am saying is you need those Jeff Green types on the team, but this team needs guys who can get their own shot. Not role player 3 and D guys. This team needs to add more talent who can attack off the bounce and create for others. A point guard and a guy who can run the bench unit. Those are absolute needs along with better big option backing up BroLo like maybe Favors who is athletic enough to go with GIannis when team goes small. In playoffs this team needs to be longer and more athletic with Giannis as Center or pseudo point-forward PF with guy 6-9-6-10 like Favors as bigs but can move on perimeter and switch things

  8. #3173
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    Quote Originally Posted by HacksawButch View Post
    I can see offensively, we might be able to get by without a traditional PG, but your telling me that VO can cover Kemba, Lowry and other teams that have quick PG's? It seemed to me that we got exposed defensively even with Bledsoe in the Heat series. Dragic was mostly uncoverable. I doubt VO improves the team playing in place of Bledsoe. My dream pickup would be Dragic, but that's likely just a dream. I'd offer the full 4 year MLE contract.
    I mean he'll handle those guys better than Rose and Kennard would. And one of those two would handling some defensive duties in the clutch. And before you say Kennard wouldnt defend PGs, someone like Hill would, you have that same arguement with Vic.

    If we brought on Vic. And let's say DD and Bled are involved. Regardless of DD's involvement, he wouldnt play a ton down the stretch anyways. Your closer lineup is still Hill, Vic, Midds, Giannis and Brook. In the Rose/Kennard scenario, it's the same, only with Kennard swapped instead of Vic. The first one is undoubtedly better defensively. The Kennard version shoots it better but the Vic version has more creators.

    But Vic would defend PGs at times when hill was out. But you'd still pair him with a Wes Matthews type anyhow. So is Vic/Wes worse defensively than Rose/Wes or Rose/Kennard for stretches? I dont think so.

  9. #3174
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    Quote Originally Posted by crewfan13 View Post
    I mean he'll handle those guys better than Rose and Kennard would. And one of those two would handling some defensive duties in the clutch. And before you say Kennard wouldnt defend PGs, someone like Hill would, you have that same arguement with Vic.

    If we brought on Vic. And let's say DD and Bled are involved. Regardless of DD's involvement, he wouldnt play a ton down the stretch anyways. Your closer lineup is still Hill, Vic, Midds, Giannis and Brook. In the Rose/Kennard scenario, it's the same, only with Kennard swapped instead of Vic. The first one is undoubtedly better defensively. The Kennard version shoots it better but the Vic version has more creators.

    But Vic would defend PGs at times when hill was out. But you'd still pair him with a Wes Matthews type anyhow. So is Vic/Wes worse defensively than Rose/Wes or Rose/Kennard for stretches? I dont think so.
    I see Kennard as a completely different player and role than VO. Kennard is brought in to be the snipper. Where as VO is more of a scorer. Not necessarily and efficient one. If VO returns to his peak, it would be a no brainer, but I think that isn't very likely. It's a huge gamble. I'd definately rather have Bogdan than VO, because his game is getting better and a sign and trade could land him for 4 years.

    You worry a lot more about your closing 5 and very little about the bench. Where as I think you need at least 8 players and don't want everything in the 5 and no help.

    As far as Bledsoe not having value. That's crazy. You don't think a team like the T wolves, who haven't made the playoffs for years, wouldn't love to have Bledsoe? I saw a trade of PF James Johnson and pick 17 for Bledsoe, but said that they probably wouldn't give us much more than that.

  10. #3175
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    I honestly don't think a team like Minn would have any real interest in Bledsoe. Why would they? He doesn't move the needle and they have the first pick. They're taking Ball or Edwards most likely. Even if they end up trading down for Obi, they drafted Culver to play the 2 alongside Russell.

    Teams don't trade for veteran guys that get them to the 8-10 seed in their conference. If you're not competing, your gathering assets to compete and those assets are young guys and picks. No way you give up real value to push for the 8th/9th spot. James Johnson and 17 isn't very valuable for Bled. So sure, they might have passing interest if you offer them a deal that's too good to pass up. But if we're trying to get back something that helps us win this year, Bled doesn't have a bunch of value to many teams unless you're a contender or at least close to a contender who doesn't have great guard play. That doesn't apply to a ton of teams.

    Yes Vic and Kennard are different players. But they'd be playing the same minutes. That's the point of comparing them. Kennard is a nice fit alongside giannis offensively. But hes a minus on defense and doesn't provide much shot creation when Giannis is out. Vic can shoot it a little, not as well as Kennard, but as well, possibly a bit better, than Bled, while providing some shot creation on offense when Giannis is out or struggling. Thats important.

    I absolutely value the closing or starting 5 over the bench. We had a really good bench all regular season. But it's a 5 man game. Most of the gsme is played with my 5 best vs your 5 best or some permutation that includes a few of my 5 best vs a few of your 5 best. That's where Miami destroyed us. They had some bench guys that added value. But their best 5 were better than ours. Plus, as a team with real championship goals, you can find ring chasing vets to help the bench.

    We need a 3rd borderline all star type. To me, Kennard isn't close enough to that to make him a prime target. I wouldnt hate him, but he doesn't move the needle enough. Vic may never be the player he was, although I'm less sure of that than you are, but he has that potential. We're potentially losing giannis here. We need to go with the potential.

  11. #3176
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    Quote Originally Posted by crewfan13 View Post
    I know he wanted out and that was part of it, but his value after his chucking days in Phoenix was Greg Monroe and a heavily protected pick. So it's not like he's going to be a ton more valuable as a lead player.

    I think Bled has shown in milwaukee that his best role is a bulldog defender and secondary offensive option. Thats the most valuable version of him. That version doesn't do Detroit much good. That version could be valuable to a team like Indy. Or maybe others like LAC or LAL. He has value to other teams as well, but it's probably lower and you need to attach a legit asset to him to move him. Like NO. He could play a similar role to what Jrue did last year, but hes not as good as Jrue. So to make it work, you need to also send them salary relief and young players/picks.

    And that's where I dont get the Detroit side of this. Unless the pick is going. The it begs the question, is Bled and the pick actually better than Rose and Kennard. I think it's probably a wash or at least close to a wash.

    Plus, Rose is an awkward fit. He's a worsen outside shooter than Bledsoe and he's an on ball player. Part of the reason Rose looked good in Detroit was because their team stunk and he got to be the guy. He'd be the 3rd guy here at best, at least when it comes to handling the offensive load. You're not going to park giannis in the corner to shoot. You need to run plays through Kris to make sure he stays involved, so Rose basically is your bench scorer type. Does it really make sense to move your best perimeter defender for a guy who may not be able to play alongside giannis all that much? Kennard might be a good fit, but his defensive issues might be awkward too, depending what the rest of the roster looks like.
    Yea that trade can be looked at as a wash only if u think regular season. Although I do think Rose and Kennard would give more scoring punch than Bledsoe in the playoffs. We all know he fizzle out in the playoffs. So if this bottom tier trade is our last result I'll do it!

  12. #3177
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    Quote Originally Posted by crewfan13 View Post
    Rose is at an awkward stage in his career. Guys like Melo have gotten there recently and in the past even guys like Monta Ellis get there and it's hard to adjust. Westbrook is on a path to that role as well. Rose is absolutely still one of the best 150 players in the league. So by that metric, hes a starting caliber player (5 starters x 30 teams).

    But his play style is still that of a top 20 player. He isn't a complimentary player at all. He needs the ball. He's not a shoot off the ball guy and he's a mediocre at best defender. He actually shot fairly well in catch and shoot last year, but he took less than 1 catch and shoot 3 per game.

    Rose is at the point where he either needs to be one of the better players on a crappy team, or accept a role as a 15-18 minute bench guy who probably isn't part of the closing lineup consistently. Adjusting to that latter role is tough for formerly good players. Maybe Rose does it well, but are we really making one of our only moves of the offseason to potentially keep Giannis a move that nets us a 15-18 minute a night bench guard? I know we get Kennard too, who could be valuable, but that seems light, espeically when youre throwing in at least a draft pick for it to make sense.
    Yet u are focusing on the regular season. Rose would have brought a whole different element to our team in the playoffs. Just go back and look at Rondo and Hero minutes in the regular season vs playoffs. Even Dragic, he was coming off the bench all season but came playoff time he was inserted in the starting lineup and he caused all kind of problems for us and the Celtics.
    All I'm saying is that the Bucks need guys who can go take from a team, that includes shooters, shot creators and attackers from top to bottom. And less guys like PatC, Illy, DJ, Brown and maybe RoLo. I only questioned RoLo because of a possible Toronto, Blazer or Laker series

  13. #3178
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    Quote Originally Posted by HacksawButch View Post
    I can see offensively, we might be able to get by without a traditional PG, but your telling me that VO can cover Kemba, Lowry and other teams that have quick PG's? It seemed to me that we got exposed defensively even with Bledsoe in the Heat series. Dragic was mostly uncoverable. I doubt VO improves the team playing in place of Bledsoe. My dream pickup would be Dragic, but that's likely just a dream. I'd offer the full 4 year MLE contract.
    If VO can get back his 2018 form, he definitely can guard any guard and some possible fowards

  14. #3179
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    Quote Originally Posted by HacksawButch View Post
    This is a trade in the trade challenge, where they are starting with 16 trades going head to head to find the best one. Wasn't my idea. And I hate Rose, but thought Kennard for Bledsoe would be a win for the Bucks and Rose has some value, especially with Bledsoe gone. This trade advanced in round 1, so you should be able to follow it.

    I believe they thought Milwaukee should get trade compensation besides Kennard and Rose. Sounded Crazy to me, but I wanted Kennard last year.
    That trade challenge really started off with stupid trade packages

  15. #3180
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    Quote Originally Posted by gopackgo87 View Post
    But what I am saying is you need those Jeff Green types on the team, but this team needs guys who can get their own shot. Not role player 3 and D guys. This team needs to add more talent who can attack off the bounce and create for others. A point guard and a guy who can run the bench unit. Those are absolute needs along with better big option backing up BroLo like maybe Favors who is athletic enough to go with GIannis when team goes small. In playoffs this team needs to be longer and more athletic with Giannis as Center or pseudo point-forward PF with guy 6-9-6-10 like Favors as bigs but can move on perimeter and switch things
    I was just mentioning Jeff Green in a cheap signing in addition to shot creators and attackers. Not signing him and consider we are done. This team need a talent overhaul to overcome and it can be done. We just got to be creative with aggression!

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