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  1. #2416
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    Dec 2007
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    https://www.sportskeeda.com/basketba...snell-and-more

    Never heard of that site. But that writer suggests a few trade ideas. Mentions Marc Gasol. Then mentions we could part with Snell maybe. Then suggests Howard. Not so sure about Howard. A bit toxic. Yeah cheap contract. But we did almost trade for him back when he was on the Rockets. But we passed cause he wouldn't commit to a extension. So we didn't want to give a good offer for possible rental.

  2. #2417
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    I can't see the Bucks getting close to getting Beal, I don't think we can trade a 1st until after the players are picked with the Hill and Bledsoe 1st still not conveyed. Teams like the Lakers, Celtics, Kings, and many more have much more desirable young players and can trade picks. For example the Lakers trade Ball or Ingram, KCP, and a throw in contract (say Stephenson) for Beal and filler. Boston gives Brown, Morris, and Smart for Beal and Jeff Green (not to mention 1 of the 4 picks they have). The Kings give Randolph, Bogdanovic, a young guy (not heild, fox, or Bagley), and a first. We can't come close Thon, Donte, and Hill is about the best we can offer and then we likely lose Middleton or Bledsoe next offseason.

  3. #2418
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    We can trade 2019 on draft night. Select a player for another team then trade the pick. That's the loop hole. But as of now yeah the Stepien rule is like 2020 to Suns and 2022 to Cavs. So if were talking trading a pick now it be 2024 when other two conveys. That's a bit far out.

  4. #2419
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    I wouldn't be doing any bets with the news of Gery Woelfel saying 1 of our 4 free agents doesn't want to re-sign next summer. As much as a disagree with Buckalis. If Middleton is the guy that wants out and we pull the trigger then Beal could come into play. I had my sights much lower in a Middleton trade. Beal would be nice. But then that benches Brogdon. Unless Beal plays SF?

  5. #2420
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    Quote Originally Posted by jay87shot View Post
    I can't see the Bucks getting close to getting Beal, I don't think we can trade a 1st until after the players are picked with the Hill and Bledsoe 1st still not conveyed. Teams like the Lakers, Celtics, Kings, and many more have much more desirable young players and can trade picks. For example the Lakers trade Ball or Ingram, KCP, and a throw in contract (say Stephenson) for Beal and filler. Boston gives Brown, Morris, and Smart for Beal and Jeff Green (not to mention 1 of the 4 picks they have). The Kings give Randolph, Bogdanovic, a young guy (not heild, fox, or Bagley), and a first. We can't come close Thon, Donte, and Hill is about the best we can offer and then we likely lose Middleton or Bledsoe next offseason.
    Don't think that GMs consider Ball or Ingram as good investments... Neither the expiring contracts of Marcus Morris or Smart make them attractive to be considered as assets, DDV would be valued higher than all of these on any trade, only Jaylen Brown would be valued as high as DDV... Also, Thon Maker would be valued quite well on a trade, because the modern idea is not to pay "big money" on a center and Maker, other than he is good shooter and defender, won't get a big rise after his rookie contract expires...

    Also... the 1st that the Cavs have, is designed to never convey and then, it becomes 2x2nd on 2014, both of which will be very low given they are coming from the Bucks... not much different than signing two undrafted free agents... The Cavs would happily want to give this pick away...

    Another thing to consider, is that Tony Snell will be valued highly on any trade, because he is one of the better shooters in the league, he is a very good defender, young and with an excellent contract with respect to other 3-D players. Also... the 2 picks the Bucks have out of the Wizzards, will be higher than No 37 given that the only West team that will end with a worst record than East's 7 unqualified teams will be the Suns... In trades this means that the picks won't be valued much lower than low 1sts...

  6. #2421
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    Quote Originally Posted by MILLERHIGHLIFE View Post
    I wouldn't be doing any bets with the news of Gery Woelfel saying 1 of our 4 free agents doesn't want to re-sign next summer. As much as a disagree with Buckalis. If Middleton is the guy that wants out and we pull the trigger then Beal could come into play. I had my sights much lower in a Middleton trade. Beal would be nice. But then that benches Brogdon. Unless Beal plays SF?
    The Bucks won't trade Middleton this season... They'd prefer to let him walk in free agency. First priority for the F.O. is now this season's playoffs... None of the starers will be traded... If we land Beal, the guy that he will replace on the starting roster, will be moved to 6th man...

  7. #2422
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    If one looks at the rotation minutes players get from early December on, it's Brown, Wilson and Hill that are the Bucks prime rotation... Ilyasova is 4th with significantly less minutes than the three mentioned, while Snell's minutes are continuously dropping followed by Maker who either is not used or his minutes are minimal... DDV, Connaughton, Smith & Wood don't take any minutes at all...

    I'm pretty sure that Wood will soon be a major part of the rotation which will then leave no room for Maker... DDV & Connaughton can both be traded, because the Bucks don't have the luxury to wait until they develop their game until they can contribute to the rotation of contending team...

    The good thing is that all DDV, Connaughton and Maker will be valued well from the other side on a trade, because a team on a fast rebuild can hope to have them ready or near ready for next season and all have shown positive signs... Smith OTOH, I'm sure we got him as to use him for salary filler on another trade (this season) or on a three team trade if it is the Wizzards on the other side...

    Given that the Wizzards have been helped a lot by the Bucks this season, but also that the Bucks hold the picks that the Wizzards will want back, the Cavs have got in their hands a 1st and a 2nd picks from the Bucks that are both totally useless and the Wizzards have another 10M of tax penalty to clear, I don't see any other team that can match the Bucks...

    I mean... The Cavs would happily pass to the Wizzards the 1st that they have from the Bucks (the 2nd is totally worthless if they would pass that too) if they were to replace JR Smith with Snell and save the 3M he has under guarantee in his contract, the Wizzards will get 3 worthy picks that are all like late 1sts and will add two (or maybe three if Connaughton will also be included) assets and will save the rest of the tax penalty and finally... The Bucks will keep all the roster depth they are currently using, by only letting Snell go and replace him with much more valuable Beal...

  8. #2423
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    Quote Originally Posted by buckalis View Post
    Don't think that GMs consider Ball or Ingram as good investments... Neither the expiring contracts of Marcus Morris or Smart make them attractive to be considered as assets, DDV would be valued higher than all of these on any trade, only Jaylen Brown would be valued as high as DDV... Also, Thon Maker would be valued quite well on a trade, because the modern idea is not to pay "big money" on a center and Maker, other than he is good shooter and defender, won't get a big rise after his rookie contract expires...

    Also... the 1st that the Cavs have, is designed to never convey and then, it becomes 2x2nd on 2014, both of which will be very low given they are coming from the Bucks... not much different than signing two undrafted free agents... The Cavs would happily want to give this pick away...

    Another thing to consider, is that Tony Snell will be valued highly on any trade, because he is one of the better shooters in the league, he is a very good defender, young and with an excellent contract with respect to other 3-D players. Also... the 2 picks the Bucks have out of the Wizzards, will be higher than No 37 given that the only West team that will end with a worst record than East's 7 unqualified teams will be the Suns... In trades this means that the picks won't be valued much lower than low 1sts...
    You're insane if you think DDV is valued anywhere near the same as Ingram. Same with Tony snell. Outside of shooting efficiency, Ingram does everything signifcsntly better than snell and he's 6 years younger. Ingram this year is averaging more pts, assist, rebounds, steals, and blocks than snell ever has for any one season. Snell is having his best season from a PER perspective and Ingram has been better than that in 2 of his 3 years so far.

    DdV is a year older than Ingram and has been worse at everything as well. You can keep telling yourself what you want, but we dont have valuable assets. The only guy who's really built value this year is Wilson. Thon continues to watch his stock plummet as he can't even get into the games.

    Unless we find a team that loves Middleton, we are unlikely to make a significant deal. Teams want draft picks, cap flexibility or young players with significant upside. We can't really offer any of that. Our young guys, like thon, DDV and brown project to be 6th men types at best. Maybe 1 of them could be a 5th starter. But that's not the type of young guy teams give up real assets for. Wilson has a little more upside, but even he is not good enough to be the focal point of a trade that nets us a player who's anywhere near Beal quality.

  9. #2424
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    I agree DDV has a lot to prove before he's considered a worthy trade asset. Also DDV getting injured didn't help him. Beginning of season he was decent. Now he lost minutes to Brown. At this point DDV is a mild throw in with tiny upside. Maker barely worth a second round pick at this point. All in all our young pieces don't have much of any value.

  10. #2425
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    Quote Originally Posted by MILLERHIGHLIFE View Post
    I agree DDV has a lot to prove before he's considered a worthy trade asset. Also DDV getting injured didn't help him. Beginning of season he was decent. Now he lost minutes to Brown. At this point DDV is a mild throw in with tiny upside. Maker barely worth a second round pick at this point. All in all our young pieces don't have much of any value.
    I assure you that most teams would take Maker over Valanciounas or Kanter any day... Reason is the cost and that he can shoot behind the arc... No one wants to pay real money for an CF... Maker would be valued highly by any team...

    Look... things are simple, teams try to balance their financials for guards and wings... you simply can't have an expensive center if you plan to go somewhere... Look at GSW or how the Lakers are trying to put things together... If you are to have guards and wings that cost 30-40M, you can't afford to pay a center... Nobody buys Whiteside... think about it...

  11. #2426
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    Maker has one more season before RFA. Doubt anyone wants him. If he's not hitting threes he sucks. Lousy hands and piss poor rebounder as well. Seems to be a spazz mainly for defense. Also a tooth pick that can be pushed around in the paint. Most the time he gets lost chasing players for blocks and gives up a easy basket or defense rebound. At this point he's a mild throw in. Just another botched draft pick like Vaughn.

    Luckily Wilson shown a bit the season. Other wise 3 wasted picks. Jury still out on DDV. DDV show mild flashes first couple weeks then got injured and now buried on the pine with Pat. But I don't mind trading Maker,DDV,Pat for better option in the rotation for playoffs. Since rotations will be shortened for playoffs anyway. But them 3 wont get you much in return. I hope i'm wrong though.

  12. #2427
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    Quote Originally Posted by MILLERHIGHLIFE View Post
    Maker has one more season before RFA. Doubt anyone wants him. If he's not hitting threes he sucks. Lousy hands and piss poor rebounder as well. Seems to be a spazz mainly for defense. Also a tooth pick that can be pushed around in the paint. Most the time he gets lost chasing players for blocks and gives up a easy basket or defense rebound. At this point he's a mild throw in. Just another botched draft pick like Vaughn.
    Nope... you are wrong mate... You see him like this, because you are looking at your team... Just ask a Clippers fan what he thinks of Gortat, a Knicks fan what he thinks of Kanter and you can see what Celtics fans think about Hortford in their page... This is just to name a few... the list is endless...

    Quote Originally Posted by MILLERHIGHLIFE View Post
    Luckily Wilson shown a bit the season. Other wise 3 wasted picks. Jury still out on DDV. DDV show mild flashes first couple weeks then got injured and now buried on the pine with Pat. But I don't mind trading Maker,DDV,Pat for better option in the rotation for playoffs. Since rotations will be shortened for playoffs anyway. But them 3 wont get you much in return. I hope i'm wrong though.
    You are wrong... DDV has shown enough for a rookie with no experience as to be considered a valuable asset on a trade... The other teams have seen that the Bucks are contenders and also have amazing roster depth... They know that you don't trade for Hill and expect DDV to retain his roster spot... DDV will be valued very high on any deal...

  13. #2428
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    I'd kind of take the middle of the road in this discussion about the value of Bucks players like DVD, Maker, Connaughton and Tony Snell. I believe that each has some value, but not what you'd need to acquire a Beal type player. Sure 2 of these guy's are completely out of the rotation and the other 2 are at the end of the rotation, but this rotation is the best team in Basketball right now. The reason we are the best is because of the quality depth we have. Our bench is inconsistent and average scoring wise, but defensively they are fantastic for a bench unit.

    Bottom line is, nobody has 9th, 10th and 11th man quality like the Bucks, not even Boston. On almost any other team all of these guy's could be getting minutes and if someone goes down from our current 2nd unit, we'll still keep winning games because the next guy up can play too.

  14. #2429
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    Quote Originally Posted by HacksawButch View Post
    I'd kind of take the middle of the road in this discussion about the value of Bucks players like DVD, Maker, Connaughton and Tony Snell. I believe that each has some value, but not what you'd need to acquire a Beal type player. Sure 2 of these guy's are completely out of the rotation and the other 2 are at the end of the rotation, but this rotation is the best team in Basketball right now. The reason we are the best is because of the quality depth we have. Our bench is inconsistent and average scoring wise, but defensively they are fantastic for a bench unit.

    Bottom line is, nobody has 9th, 10th and 11th man quality like the Bucks, not even Boston. On almost any other team all of these guy's could be getting minutes and if someone goes down from our current 2nd unit, we'll still keep winning games because the next guy up can play too.
    But no one is that hungry for depth. Beal is a #2 player on a good roster. Teams aren't trading a #2 guy for a bunch of #8, 9 and 19 types. And even though those guys are young, they still have #5 or 6 upside at best. These guys aren't completely devoid of value, but no team is giving you anywhere near an even borderline level all star talent for that unless you're throwing in significant draft assets, which we can't.

    I don't think anyone is arguing that we don't havd good depth. And depth is great. It loses some value in the playoffs though too. With regular scheduled off days and the higher value of the games, starters play more minutes and your rotations tighten up. So depth is valuable, but people aren't paying a premium for depth guys in trades. And that's really all we have to offer right now.

  15. #2430
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    Quote Originally Posted by crewfan13 View Post
    But no one is that hungry for depth. Beal is a #2 player on a good roster. Teams aren't trading a #2 guy for a bunch of #8, 9 and 19 types. And even though those guys are young, they still have #5 or 6 upside at best. These guys aren't completely devoid of value, but no team is giving you anywhere near an even borderline level all star talent for that unless you're throwing in significant draft assets, which we can't.

    I don't think anyone is arguing that we don't havd good depth. And depth is great. It loses some value in the playoffs though too. With regular scheduled off days and the higher value of the games, starters play more minutes and your rotations tighten up. So depth is valuable, but people aren't paying a premium for depth guys in trades. And that's really all we have to offer right now.
    I have explained that to you before... The Wizards won't trade Beal because they want to... They trade him because they can't do otherwise... They have 117M in their books for next season salaries for only six roster spots... it means they have to sign another 9 roster spot and save another 9.8M of tax penalty this season... Things are simple with maths, no magic is required for one to figure it out... Not even a Wizard can get out of this!

    And then picks and rookie contracts are the best they can hope for... 3 picks no 28-38 nobody else can give them, nor any other can give them two rookie contracts... The Wizzards won't take Snell because he has he has this and another two seasons in his contract... They want expiring for money fillers (JR Smith)... For them two rookie contracts and three picks, means that they fill five roster spots out of the 10 they will have empty after they trade Beal... They will therefore sell O. Porter too, so that they can fill the rest of the roster spots and still have the capital required to "hit hard" in this up coming free agency...

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