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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by BRAVE KID View Post
    This is 2015 all over again. "Give up on Peyton, lets see what we have in Brock...we're wasting this defense anyway."

    If they listened to what you said...we would of never won a Superbowl. Bottom line mg, you DON'T WASTE defensive talent when you have it.

    Hell, I just saw power rankings that had us as a top 10 team...and that's solely on defensive prowess.

    Meaning if we get just an average production from offense. We're a bonifide contender. Top 5 team.

    2013 was the greatest offense that never won a title. 2015 was one of the worst offenses that won a title....both cases due to defense.

    In both of his starts Siemian has improved. I've said all along that this system fits Siemian very well. I'm simply intrigued to see what he can do when McCoy gets to real game calling/planning.

    Of course he's going to still struggle reading a defense/adjusting at the line. It's his SECOND year playing. What QB has it all figured out by his second year starting? That stuff requires TIME. Whats' important is...is he building off of it? Is he showing improvement? Frankly, he is. It may not be as flashy as you want but he is doing everything in a respectable manner considering the circumstances.
    Imo he is not showing nor building on any thing, this 9er game he took a step back after a great week of practice too. His "highlights" consisted of nothing but 5 yard throws and Tebow ish runs. That's not building on his 1st preseason game. I'm not gonna call him a bust because something could click in another year maybe 2 with coaching consistency. Right now tho he doesn't look much better than slotter albeit they are facing different levels of defense but slotter at least looks competent and composed. Hopefully he can turn it around but I pray siemian doesn't get hurt.

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  2. #62
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    i thought trevor played well but talking with a few of my sources in the FO you would have thought we lost. They aren't excited about either guy at all. I guess we will see what happens. Siemian will have a short leash. If offense or team is struggling, they are going to go with Lynch because I was told TS leash will be short. If neither guys shows needed progress this year, expect Elway to be very active.

    Sidebar... told Elway still pissed at the Cowboys and Jerry Jones... you wouldn't believe how close a trade was to getting done for Romo.

    #GoHawkeyes #FightForIowa #ANF

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncsinmo View Post
    I'll take that chance when compared to the other option.

    If you're okay with wasting this defense this year, that's you're choice. I'm not good with that, and starting Lynch would have zero positive net benefit. Zero. This guy is Brock 2.0, whom you also championed to replace Manning.

    Lynch is not good. That is clear.
    It's a waste no matter what lol. Trevor isn't going to magically turn into a top 10 QB. Even with Siemian, we're likely sitting on the outside of the playoffs.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by BRAVE KID View Post
    I rather be rhomboidal.

    I watched enough football to know that there is such a thing as a hidden gem. And that a franchise QB is very very hard to find/develop.

    We had to wait till Peyton Manning...an already established QB to fall into our laps in order to get a true franchise QB.

    It's risky business to tank for one...it's risky business to give up all your assets for someone that you think can be one.

    If you don't have a squad that can compete any time soon...then sure..tank away. Get "your" guy. 76er it to your hearts content. You'll lose all the respect though.

    We win from now on. Tanking does not apply.
    Siemian is a hidden gem. He's just not ever going to be starter material. We aren't making the playoffs this year, so after 2 years of not making the playoffs, it's hard to say "Win from now on".

    Just because it's hard to find a franchise QB, doesn't mean you don't even try. You don't just give up and go with a below average QB. Siemian isn't the answer and never will be.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by BRAVE KID View Post
    This franchise QB or bust mentality is exactly how you become the Browns. And that's your biggest issue. There is no such thing as a sure thing franchise QB. You have to either develop them or be fortunate enough to be able to buy one if they are available.

    In both cases you're going to need a TEAM in order to be legit contenders year after year.

    With the team that we have right now...I do believe we are fully capable of making the play-offs. Once you get in there...anything goes.
    How in the world do you look at this team and think playoffs? There's way too many variables to even think about playoffs. Let's run them down.

    -Does our defense stay dominant with a new DC?
    -Does our run defense improve greatly from last year?
    -Does VJ know how to be a head coach even though it's his first year as one and only has 1 year as a DC?
    -Does Siemian take a big step forward this year?
    -Is our offensive line much better than last year?
    -Can our running backs stay healthy?
    -Do we have any major injuries?
    -Can our offense score 20+ ppg?
    -Does our special teams take a step back with a new ST coordinator?


    All of those questions need to go in the Broncos favor to make the playoffs.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by BRAVE KID View Post
    This is 2015 all over again. "Give up on Peyton, lets see what we have in Brock...we're wasting this defense anyway."

    If they listened to what you said...we would of never won a Superbowl. Bottom line mg, you DON'T WASTE defensive talent when you have it.

    Hell, I just saw power rankings that had us as a top 10 team...and that's solely on defensive prowess.

    Meaning if we get just an average production from offense. We're a bonifide contender. Top 5 team.

    2013 was the greatest offense that never won a title. 2015 was one of the worst offenses that won a title....both cases due to defense.

    In both of his starts Siemian has improved. I've said all along that this system fits Siemian very well. I'm simply intrigued to see what he can do when McCoy gets to real game calling/planning.

    Of course he's going to still struggle reading a defense/adjusting at the line. It's his SECOND year playing. What QB has it all figured out by his second year starting? That stuff requires TIME. Whats' important is...is he building off of it? Is he showing improvement? Frankly, he is. It may not be as flashy as you want but he is doing everything in a respectable manner considering the circumstances.
    So much wrong here. First you compared Siemian to Manning lololol. Second, I was absolutely right when I said Manning was done. He threw 18 picks in a half a season. The reason that we won the Super Bowl with Manning was his ability to read a defense and make adjustments.... Two things Siemian still can't do. Manning also was able to make big throws with the game on the line... Another thing Siemian has never done.

    Preseason power rankings as an argument now? We know how accurate those tend to be...

    Who's better Russell Wilson or Trevor Siemian? Who's better Peyton Manning or Trevor Siemian? Both teams that won a Super Bowl with a dominant defense had a QB who could make big throws, convert 3rd downs, and keep drives alive.

    Siemian played against the second team on Saturday lol. Of course he's going to look better. Frankly, a guy who started a whole season should have put up 20+ points on the second team of one of the worst teams in the NFL... In a quarter and a half.

    It's his 3rd year in the NFL BK. It's time for the kid gloves to come off. How many QB's can read a defense in their 3rd year? All the good ones.

    He's not showing improvement BK. He's been meh all camp, and he was meh in his first preseason game. Everyone who's watched practice said he looks exactly the same as last year so I'm curious how you've come to the conclusion that he's somehow improving.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Cyanide 28 View Post
    i thought trevor played well but talking with a few of my sources in the FO you would have thought we lost. They aren't excited about either guy at all. I guess we will see what happens. Siemian will have a short leash. If offense or team is struggling, they are going to go with Lynch because I was told TS leash will be short. If neither guys shows needed progress this year, expect Elway to be very active.

    Sidebar... told Elway still pissed at the Cowboys and Jerry Jones... you wouldn't believe how close a trade was to getting done for Romo.
    He didn't really play all that well though. If you just look at the stat sheet and don't use context, you could come to that conclusion. That TD throw to Taylor was pathetic. That's likely a pick against a starting NFL defense, but luckily the corner didn't react when the ball was in the air. The safety was too deep and late as well.

    The fact that Siemian only scored one TD against an awful team's second and third string defense shouldn't be looked at as anything but concerning. The guy has been a starter for an entire season now, and is in his third year playing.... He's not a young guy anymore. He's a vet. He should have eaten the 49ers for lunch.

  8. #68
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    I'm gonna call you out for straight hate MG, if that was Aaron Rodgers making throw you would not be saying that. That was a money throw and catch yeah maybe the corner **** the bed on the coverage but Taylor stopped on a dime to come back and get an on point ball. That was a great throw. Haha

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  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by tmacsc2 View Post
    I'm gonna call you out for straight hate MG, if that was Aaron Rodgers making throw you would not be saying that. That was a money throw and catch yeah maybe the corner **** the bed on the coverage but Taylor stopped on a dime to come back and get an on point ball. That was a great throw. Haha

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
    It was not a great throw at all. Easily defended if it's a starting defense.

    But yes it's known I don't like Siemian the same way I didn't like Orton, Alex Smith, Sam Bradford, etc. I don't like gutless QB's who are too damn scared to make a play when it matters.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by mgjohnson7851 View Post
    Siemian is a hidden gem. He's just not ever going to be starter material. We aren't making the playoffs this year, so after 2 years of not making the playoffs, it's hard to say "Win from now on".

    Just because it's hard to find a franchise QB, doesn't mean you don't even try. You don't just give up and go with a below average QB. Siemian isn't the answer and never will be.
    It's not known we're not going to make the play-offs this year. We were ONE game away from the play-offs last year even with all the craptastic play. Let the season play out. Talent and coaching go a long way.

    Your method of finding a franchise QB is exactly how you lose a fanbase, lose credibility, and it is directly against what Pat Bowlen has built. We will not tank.

    Quote Originally Posted by mgjohnson7851 View Post
    How in the world do you look at this team and think playoffs? There's way too many variables to even think about playoffs. Let's run them down.

    -Does our defense stay dominant with a new DC?
    -Does our run defense improve greatly from last year?
    -Does VJ know how to be a head coach even though it's his first year as one and only has 1 year as a DC?
    -Does Siemian take a big step forward this year?
    -Is our offensive line much better than last year?
    -Can our running backs stay healthy?
    -Do we have any major injuries?
    -Can our offense score 20+ ppg?
    -Does our special teams take a step back with a new ST coordinator?


    All of those questions need to go in the Broncos favor to make the playoffs.
    Talent, understanding of scheme, coaching, and scouting.

    Sure the Broncos have always had a lot of questions to answer but if the talent is there...we have a chance. We have a shot whether folks want to believe it or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by mgjohnson7851 View Post
    So much wrong here. First you compared Siemian to Manning lololol. Second, I was absolutely right when I said Manning was done. He threw 18 picks in a half a season. The reason that we won the Super Bowl with Manning was his ability to read a defense and make adjustments.... Two things Siemian still can't do. Manning also was able to make big throws with the game on the line... Another thing Siemian has never done.

    Preseason power rankings as an argument now? We know how accurate those tend to be...

    Who's better Russell Wilson or Trevor Siemian? Who's better Peyton Manning or Trevor Siemian? Both teams that won a Super Bowl with a dominant defense had a QB who could make big throws, convert 3rd downs, and keep drives alive.

    Siemian played against the second team on Saturday lol. Of course he's going to look better. Frankly, a guy who started a whole season should have put up 20+ points on the second team of one of the worst teams in the NFL... In a quarter and a half.

    It's his 3rd year in the NFL BK. It's time for the kid gloves to come off. How many QB's can read a defense in their 3rd year? All the good ones.

    He's not showing improvement BK. He's been meh all camp, and he was meh in his first preseason game. Everyone who's watched practice said he looks exactly the same as last year so I'm curious how you've come to the conclusion that he's somehow improving.
    Holy hell....didn't even compare Siemian to PFM. It's the same situation that you are falling victim to. Your proclamation of "we're wasting this defense anyway, **** it...we're not going to win anything."

    I was absolutely right when I kept harping that PFM gave us the BEST CHANCE to WIN. And you go with that chance...always. You, as you're doing right now, went ahead and said there is no point...we're not going to win anything so give it up and see what Brock can do. I don't throw in the white flag that easily. Especially when there is talent that can be utilized.

    Siemian is in his 3rd year. 2nd year now starting. 2nd offensive scheme he is now learning. 2nd coaching staff he is now going through. This implying that "he should get it by now" is completely ludicrous.. ESPECIALLY, since you don't hold the same standard to Paxton Lynch.

    Oh Paxton was always a project, he can throw a ball farther than uncle rico, look how amazeballz he's running around but his ceiling is so higher than the sky.

    There's more to playing QB than being big, throwing far, and running around mg.

    Quote Originally Posted by mgjohnson7851 View Post
    He didn't really play all that well though. If you just look at the stat sheet and don't use context, you could come to that conclusion. That TD throw to Taylor was pathetic. That's likely a pick against a starting NFL defense, but luckily the corner didn't react when the ball was in the air. The safety was too deep and late as well.

    The fact that Siemian only scored one TD against an awful team's second and third string defense shouldn't be looked at as anything but concerning. The guy has been a starter for an entire season now, and is in his third year playing.... He's not a young guy anymore. He's a vet. He should have eaten the 49ers for lunch.
    MG, it is clear as day that you will do ANYTHING to downplay or discredit any success Siemian has. Bro, you're claiming you're using context...you're not...you have an agenda. And you're following it to a key.

    You want to look into that play more? How about the fact that there was a free blitzer coming straight at him from his blindside. He had two seconds to get the ball off, he not only got it off, but he recognized his WR's route and the DB's positioning. So, he had to get the ball out quick, put it in a spot only his WR can get, and he got a TD out of it.

    Last year, Siemian would of waited till Taylor was more open to get that ball off thus he would of taken the sack. Not to mention this was directly after a TD was wiped off due to a holding penalty. So he was backed up even more and still took his shot. Improvement dude. It's easy to spot it.

    How about the out route to the RIGHT sideline to Marlon Brown. Ty Sambrailo got beat in two seconds with a rip move inside, Siemian saw it, had to get the ball out and hit Brown on a 10 yard gain. If you paid attention he actually went through his progression, saw the defense, knew the route, put the ball in only a spot where Brown could catch it.

    THIS is quarterbacking. This is improvement. He's been working on his release and the ball is coming out quickly and on a crisp.

    If you're actually paying attention you'd be seeing it but all you're focusing on is that he will never be more than a career backup...that because it is his 3rd year in the league..he should have it all figured out by now.
    You got an agenda mg...it's painfully evident.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by mgjohnson7851 View Post
    It was not a great throw at all. Easily defended if it's a starting defense.

    But yes it's known I don't like Siemian the same way I didn't like Orton, Alex Smith, Sam Bradford, etc. I don't like gutless QB's who are too damn scared to make a play when it matters.
    I'm absolutely with ya man I hated hated hated Kyle Orton, dude always did the same **** throw short of the sticks or scramble short of the sticks. Never put his body on the line to extend a drive. Drove me nuts. Siemian did the same **** with his throws last year. Drove me nuts. Last year was a mess tho. o-line bottom 10 in the league in running and pass protection. Run game was non existent and the coaching staff apparently had 3 dudes calling a whole game.

    I'm still saying siemian isn't all that great I don't think he is the answer either and unless he comes cheap on his next contract I don't want him. With improved line play, run game and coaching (we have 2 offensive coordinators who both know how to cater to a qb and show off their strengths)
    Siemian should have a lot better of a season.

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  12. #72
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    The biggest mistake was not trading Trevor and just going with Paxton. He needs GAME experience plan and simple. No offense to Trevor I will give him all the credit in the world he took this competition from Paxton with his play. But if Elway had. Been smart he'd have just traded Trevor

  13. #73
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    The last thing Paxton needs is game experience at this point. What he needs is more time. More time to develop proper throwing fundamentals so he doesnt end up like Bortles and time in the film room to study so he doesnt end up like he has been these first 2 preseason games. Throwing him into the fire would have stopped any sort of development he could make because he is clearly much too raw to be under center in the NFL. He's not a bust yet, he still has the highest ceiling of the QB's drafted last year, he just needs to keep working hard at it. Siemian was the correct and easy choice to go into this season as the starter

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by BRAVE KID View Post
    It's not known we're not going to make the play-offs this year. We were ONE game away from the play-offs last year even with all the craptastic play. Let the season play out. Talent and coaching go a long way.

    Your method of finding a franchise QB is exactly how you lose a fanbase, lose credibility, and it is directly against what Pat Bowlen has built. We will not tank.

    Talent, understanding of scheme, coaching, and scouting.

    Sure the Broncos have always had a lot of questions to answer but if the talent is there...we have a chance. We have a shot whether folks want to believe it or not.

    Holy hell....didn't even compare Siemian to PFM. It's the same situation that you are falling victim to. Your proclamation of "we're wasting this defense anyway, **** it...we're not going to win anything."

    I was absolutely right when I kept harping that PFM gave us the BEST CHANCE to WIN. And you go with that chance...always. You, as you're doing right now, went ahead and said there is no point...we're not going to win anything so give it up and see what Brock can do. I don't throw in the white flag that easily. Especially when there is talent that can be utilized.

    Siemian is in his 3rd year. 2nd year now starting. 2nd offensive scheme he is now learning. 2nd coaching staff he is now going through. This implying that "he should get it by now" is completely ludicrous.. ESPECIALLY, since you don't hold the same standard to Paxton Lynch.

    Oh Paxton was always a project, he can throw a ball farther than uncle rico, look how amazeballz he's running around but his ceiling is so higher than the sky.

    There's more to playing QB than being big, throwing far, and running around mg.

    MG, it is clear as day that you will do ANYTHING to downplay or discredit any success Siemian has. Bro, you're claiming you're using context...you're not...you have an agenda. And you're following it to a key.

    You want to look into that play more? How about the fact that there was a free blitzer coming straight at him from his blindside. He had two seconds to get the ball off, he not only got it off, but he recognized his WR's route and the DB's positioning. So, he had to get the ball out quick, put it in a spot only his WR can get, and he got a TD out of it.

    Last year, Siemian would of waited till Taylor was more open to get that ball off thus he would of taken the sack. Not to mention this was directly after a TD was wiped off due to a holding penalty. So he was backed up even more and still took his shot. Improvement dude. It's easy to spot it.

    How about the out route to the RIGHT sideline to Marlon Brown. Ty Sambrailo got beat in two seconds with a rip move inside, Siemian saw it, had to get the ball out and hit Brown on a 10 yard gain. If you paid attention he actually went through his progression, saw the defense, knew the route, put the ball in only a spot where Brown could catch it.

    THIS is quarterbacking. This is improvement. He's been working on his release and the ball is coming out quickly and on a crisp.

    If you're actually paying attention you'd be seeing it but all you're focusing on is that he will never be more than a career backup...that because it is his 3rd year in the league..he should have it all figured out by now.
    You got an agenda mg...it's painfully evident.
    You're wrong. Sitting with a QB that leads your team into NFL purgatory is what kills a fan base. We were fortunate on the injury front last year, had a very good defensive coordinator, had a offense in its second season of a system, and had an easier schedule than this year. Playoffs aren't likely with this team and more specifically with these QB's.

    It wasn't a white flag. Peyton threw 18 interceptions in a half a season. If you think we win the Super Bowl without Brock, you're mistaken. Sure he's a trash QB now, but he did some good for us and helped us win games that I'm confident Manning would not have won.

    I don't hold Lynch to the same standard because he's got one whole less year of NFL experience than Siemian. He's got 12 fewer NFL starts than Siemian. Good grief BK. It's not that hard to understand.

    I agree that there's more to playing QB then what Lynch has shown. But there's also more to it then what Siemian has shown. You can't be afraid to win the game with your arm. You can't be afraid to run if needed. You can't be afraid of the first down stick when it's 3rd down. You can't be afraid to put the ball in the end zone.

    I don't have an agenda. I was just happy when Orton left Denver, and now we have his reincarnated form playing for us again.

    So you want your QB just throwing up a prayer when under pressure? He was scared, threw the ball to his first read, and got lucky on that play.... That's all there was to it.

    Lol BK in midseason form already.... Continually ripping on the line to prop his boy up. When Siemian fails again this year, are you going to use the line as Siemian's crutch again?

    I've got an agenda but you're using a guy's (Who STARTED all last season) performance against a second and third team where he still only scored 1 TD as some sort of validation that he's the guy you hope he is.... Ok. Cool that he looked good against backups. That fits exactly what I've been arguing. He's a high level backup who will never be a long term answer as a starter.

    I'll tell you what BK. If Siemian proves to me that he's not nearly as gutless as he was last year, I'll flip on him. But right now he's just a Check Down Charlie who would rather punt the football than throw for 5 yards on a third and four. I'll recognize him as a decent QB when we are not one of the worst 3rd down teams in the league. My view of him will change when our red zone offense isn't a disaster. You can blame it on the line, or the coaching, or whatever excuse you can find to try and justify Siemian's play. But at the end of whatever augment you want to choose, you have to realize that Siemian is the guy with the ball in his hands that failed to deliver.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by nykol View Post
    The last thing Paxton needs is game experience at this point. What he needs is more time. More time to develop proper throwing fundamentals so he doesnt end up like Bortles and time in the film room to study so he doesnt end up like he has been these first 2 preseason games. Throwing him into the fire would have stopped any sort of development he could make because he is clearly much too raw to be under center in the NFL. He's not a bust yet, he still has the highest ceiling of the QB's drafted last year, he just needs to keep working hard at it. Siemian was the correct and easy choice to go into this season as the starter
    This. The biggest mistake was not getting a starting QB this year. It makes sense now that we wanted Romo so badly. We don't have a starting QB on this roster right now.... Now that's scary.

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