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  1. #1
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    Cavs dysfunction

    I'm not a LeBron "hater" ... I can see that he's one of the greatest players ever to play the game.

    But pretty much everything going wrong in Cleveland can be dropped right at his feet.

    Gilbert gets the blame for Griffin I think.

    It looks like LeBron wants out, everyone seems to know it, but he's maneuvering his way to having the fans blame Gilbert, blame Kyrie, blame KD, etc.

    Does anybody believe LeBron was "shocked" and "blindsided" by the things happening this off-season when fans were not? We knew Gilbert had never extended a GM and Griffin hadn't worked out a new deal despite trying a year ago to get an extension. We knew Kyrie was unhappy and talking about trades months ago. Billups said "no" because LeBron didn't offer any support. LeBron, who can be a great recruiter when he wants to be did nothing this offseason to improve the team.

    It sure looks like it's the worlds worst kept secret that LeBron wants to build his 3rd super team with Magic in LA. He was even courtside cheering Lonzo in summer league ... I didn't watch them all, but I didn't see him courtside for the 2 Cavs summer league games I watched.

    LeBron is the most powerful man in the NBA ... and I can't help but think things are going the way he wants them to go.

  2. #2
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    i don't agree with any of it. i do believe he was blindsided, why wouldn't he be? Kyrie Irving is a player with obvious limitations who has thrived next to James. he had a ticket to the finals as long as james was healthy. and while you may blame james for not trying to drag others to cleveland, if he truly doesn't see himself there after this season that is a strong character move, not something to be blamed for.
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  3. #3
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    CLE was all-in to win now with absolutely zero regard for the long-term... then GS happened and now that all-in to win now team has basically no chance to win now. It's sent the team spinning.

    CLE to GS is now essentially like BOS/TOR/WAS/IND/CHI have been to Lebron's Heat/Cavs teams in the East. Good enough to be #2 but no real path to being #1. And now there's a combination of guys who want more, the team scrambling to make moves with star players for even better stars and then a guy in Kyrie saying "**** it, I have my ring I'd rather be the man elsewhere compared to #2 on a team that won't win it all". It's thrown everything into disarray.


    NE Patriots Forum HOF (Class of 2011)

  4. #4
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    Agree with OP. Lebron was allowed to be too involved, got everything he wanted, and ran this franchise right back into the ground.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by RowBTrice View Post
    Agree with OP. Lebron was allowed to be too involved, got everything he wanted, and ran this franchise right back into the ground.
    Without lebron Cavs were at dumpster level.

    Sent from my Z981 using Tapatalk

  6. #6
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    Nah, Scoots. You're wrong on some of that.

    Gilbert gets full blame regarding Griffin. He should've locked him up asap. That was the first huge miscue and it sort of snowballed from there. The Cavs then rushed and signed Jose Calderon and Jeff Green which were BAD moves, especially considering that there were better available pieces still on the market. Again, I'm fine with the Kyle Korver re-signing because he has an offensive gravity that is 2nd to only LeBron on this team, even though fans fail to see that.

    The failure of acquiring Paul George (despite being sooooo close) might be put on Gilbert as well, because if Griffin was there then he might've been able to come through with that trade.

    No one knew months ago that Kyrie wanted out. Not you, me, or anyone else. I've always felt that he wasn't as happy being second fiddle but not to the extent that he would demand a trade. I've also always knew that he and LeBron were never buddy-buddy/bestfriends off the court either. Still, there was nothing to indicate Kyrie was at his breaking point and he often played mediator during the on-court spats between LeBron and TT/Love.

    Billups primarily said no because he got low-balled. Even if LeBron was hyping him up and trying to recruit, he still would have said no because Gilbert only offered 1.5 million and wouldn't budge. Chauncey came out and said he was low-balled and he actually makes more money as an ESPN analyst.

    The LeBron to LA crap is so overblown that it's ridiculous. No one knows where he's going or if he's leaving Cleveland at all. The media is mind-****ing everyone right now and getting them to believe LeBron is definitely gonna be in LA. Sounds familiar? Because IIRC LeBron was supposed to be playing for the Knicks a long time ago, and there was FAAAAR more support/signs for that than this Lakers stuff.

    If you guys want to entertain LeBron to LA as a possibility or even likelihood, by all means - I won't argue against you. But acting like it's guaranteed is behaving like all the mindless idiots that burst their load every single time an unsubstantiated report about LeBron surfaces. You're better than that.

    Now, where I DO agree with you is the fact that LeBron's non-committment, yet again, seems to warp the offseason and progression of the team he's on. However, I'm starting to blame LeBron less and less for this. Everyone has these huge expectations for him to commit and he does the same thing plenty of other stars do - say absolutely nothing. Yet, unlike other stars, his silence drives the media and fans crazy and they begin nit-picking him excruciatingly (zomg he didn't post on twitter at 1:43pm it means he's angry and joining the Warriorz!!!!).

    I honestly believe he's not throwing out support because he did that his first time around in Cleveland and was heavily blamed for the front office making certain moves right before he left (like the much criticized acquisition of Antawn Jamison). I'm guessing right now he doesn't know if he's leaving or not and simply doesn't want to get involved.

    And while I agree he would've helped the Cavs improve if he would just commit and am tired of his non-commitment, I can't really fault him for being quiet about it. It's his life, his future, and he's within his right to wait until the contract ends before making a decision.
    The Baker has come. Believe the hype.


  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    I'm not a LeBron "hater" ... I can see that he's one of the greatest players ever to play the game.

    But pretty much everything going wrong in Cleveland can be dropped right at his feet.

    Gilbert gets the blame for Griffin I think.

    It looks like LeBron wants out, everyone seems to know it, but he's maneuvering his way to having the fans blame Gilbert, blame Kyrie, blame KD, etc.

    Does anybody believe LeBron was "shocked" and "blindsided" by the things happening this off-season when fans were not? We knew Gilbert had never extended a GM and Griffin hadn't worked out a new deal despite trying a year ago to get an extension. We knew Kyrie was unhappy and talking about trades months ago. Billups said "no" because LeBron didn't offer any support. LeBron, who can be a great recruiter when he wants to be did nothing this offseason to improve the team.

    It sure looks like it's the worlds worst kept secret that LeBron wants to build his 3rd super team with Magic in LA. He was even courtside cheering Lonzo in summer league ... I didn't watch them all, but I didn't see him courtside for the 2 Cavs summer league games I watched.

    LeBron is the most powerful man in the NBA ... and I can't help but think things are going the way he wants them to go.
    Excuse me but you are a hater just from your responses and to say you are not a hater makes you a liar . Lebron never indicated that he is leaving so you are making assumptions like most every other hater that he is leaving to make him look bad! He has little intention of leaving the state he was born and raise along with the huge support he garnered from going back home which is why Kyrie wants out cause he really wants to be "THE MAN" like your Barnes. If Lebron was planning on leaving, why would Kyrie when he will be THE MAN after next season and another final appearance to beat our Dubs! The owner or his cronies most likely leaked out that info cause he doesn't want to look like the bad guy by trying to trade him more discretely that will make him look like the bad guy but to make Kyrie look selfish which he is .

    We already know you're a Jackson hater so adding the Lebron hater to your credits seem justifiable. Just not sure why you tend to deny them which is a bad habit but you're not the only one. Just the only mod that does it...



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  8. #8
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    What specific incidents are you blaming on Lebron? Kyrie wanting to leave?

  9. #9
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    I think there's blame to go all around. Gilbert, lebron, Grif, Kyrie. Etc.

    Why does everyone think Griffin is a good gm? He made a few minor moves that helped a bit. Building a team to win now hurts the team no and foreseeable future. It was always going to end like this. The cavs did win a championship so maybe it was all worth it.

    Griffins track record as cavs gm off the top of my head:

    Resigned verajao to that awful 3y for 30m
    Traded 2 first round picks for Moszgov
    Traded a first for frye
    Traded a first for Korver
    Resigned shump 4y for 40m
    Resigned JR 4y for 57m

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiecballer View Post
    i don't agree with any of it. i do believe he was blindsided, why wouldn't he be? Kyrie Irving is a player with obvious limitations who has thrived next to James. he had a ticket to the finals as long as james was healthy. and while you may blame james for not trying to drag others to cleveland, if he truly doesn't see himself there after this season that is a strong character move, not something to be blamed for.
    LeBron and Kyrie both hinted at their working relationship being work a year ago. Kyrie talked about leaving the Cavs before the finals. I think Griffin may have been the only one holding it together.

  11. #11
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    Cavs dysfunction

    Ya I think there are many people who can take some blame. Cavs fo and the griffin situation, lebron being so non committal, kyrie wanting to be the main star and opportunity to shine individually etc.

    Like someone else has said I don't think this is as big of an issue pre this new gs team. Maybe kyrie still wants to be the man but then they just trade him in a decent package and can still compete possibly keeping lebron. Now the gap is just huge so why shouldn't kyrie look for his own personal best situation and no matter who they get back it seems odds of truly having a shot for a title are pretty low etc.

  12. #12
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    To be clear ... I think LeBron's (apparently warranted) distrust of Gilbert is a big part of the problem too.

    I like the theory that this was all a big LeBron ploy to screw Gilbert for the open letter from when he left

    I don't think anyone is certain of anything, about what happened when and who said what exactly when and where exactly everyone wants to go and when and how.

    What we know is that things in Cleveland are a mess and if LeBron really didn't know that shows a pretty severe level of isolation since Brian Windhorst and Zach Lowe were talking about Kyrie leaving at the beginning of July. So maybe LeBron is innocent of everything other than lack of commitment and his usual passive aggressive comments ... but he's smart enough to know what the results of those things are going to be by now.

    I don't know that anyone is saying Griffin is a great GM ... I think a lot of his moves were "demanded" by LeBron and I don't think anyone can argue that Griffin didn't pull some magic to assemble the 3 time finalist Cavs.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by RowBTrice View Post
    Agree with OP. Lebron was allowed to be too involved, got everything he wanted, and ran this franchise right back into the ground.
    Quote Originally Posted by cheetos185 View Post
    Without lebron Cavs were at dumpster level.

    Sent from my Z981 using Tapatalk
    Yes, I'm aware. But Lebron should of been able to sustain long term success at least at some level for this organization. That's not going to happen. It was s dumpster fire before him, he came back and used the franchise, owner, GM, and frankly his city like a pawn, and will very shortly leave, running it right back into the ground as I said initially.

  14. #14
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    I think yes, ultimately it's all Lebron's fault. He knew that Gilbert was a turd of an owner, but decided to go back anyways. You can't go back with your Ex, knock her up (Championship), and expect that all of a sudden things are going to be different. She's the same psycho as she was when you left her the first time. Now you're reminiscing of the good days you had with the one that got away (Miami) on instagram.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by hugepatsfan View Post
    CLE was all-in to win now with absolutely zero regard for the long-term... then GS happened and now that all-in to win now team has basically no chance to win now. It's sent the team spinning.

    CLE to GS is now essentially like BOS/TOR/WAS/IND/CHI have been to Lebron's Heat/Cavs teams in the East. Good enough to be #2 but no real path to being #1. And now there's a combination of guys who want more, the team scrambling to make moves with star players for even better stars and then a guy in Kyrie saying "**** it, I have my ring I'd rather be the man elsewhere compared to #2 on a team that won't win it all". It's thrown everything into disarray.


    I disagree with this. Of course GS is the favorite but cant an injury or move put Clev right back at the top. They were dropping 50 point quarters in the finals. seems like another LeBron generation narrative
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