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  1. #1681
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    Quote Originally Posted by beasted86 View Post
    Well, rapper Lil B "The Based god" was voted for on ballots to be the current president. Though I wouldn't consider him a presidential candidate.

    But I guess if you're using that basic criteria, how can I really argue? I'm sure Kyrie will get a few votes but finish outside the top 3, and with no realistic shot of actually winning it. He will also likely finish with less than 10% of the votes of the actual winner.

    Nonetheless what any of this had to do with defense? I'm not sure. Poor defense is poor defense, period.
    You're comparing an open election to a closed one. Only a select number of people have ballots for the MVP votes. Kyrie was in the top 3 in the race and won't be in the end because of the injury. Again, I was explaining why his poor defense was often forgiven by fans. Wiggins will not get the same treatment.

    You used to be a quality poster, but lately you've been harping on any and everything to pick and argument with someone. Passing your pessimism off as some sort of realism. Maybe it's time you took a break, there's perhaps too much emotional investment on your part for a .500 ball club.

    Good day sir.

  2. #1682
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    Quote Originally Posted by AllBall View Post
    You're comparing an open election to a closed one. Only a select number of people have ballots for the MVP votes. Kyrie was in the top 3 in the race and won't be in the end because of the injury. Again, I was explaining why his poor defense was often forgiven by fans. Wiggins will not get the same treatment.

    You used to be a quality poster, but lately you've been harping on any and everything to pick and argument with someone. Passing your pessimism off as some sort of realism. Maybe it's time you took a break, there's perhaps too much emotional investment on your part for a .500 ball club.

    Good day sir.
    Actually quite the opposite. I find myself missing complete games or watching only the 2nd half of about 75% of HEAT games. No investment at all.

    It's actually just baffling more people are content with this mediocrity and would not want a 24yr old potential perennial all-star. It's quite shocking.

    I also find it confusing the logic applied in this case. It's an illogical argument. I just consider overall positive benefit. Good defense, bad defense, good offense, bad offense. Just will X player move the needle forward over Y player.

  3. #1683
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    Quote Originally Posted by beasted86 View Post
    Actually quite the opposite. I find myself missing complete games or watching only the 2nd half of about 75% of HEAT games. No investment at all.

    It's actually just baffling more people are content with this mediocrity and would not want a 24yr old potential perennial all-star. It's quite shocking.

    I also find it confusing the logic applied in this case. It's an illogical argument. I just consider overall positive benefit. Good defense, bad defense, good offense, bad offense. Just will X player move the needle forward over Y player.
    I agree
    [/CENTER]

  4. #1684
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    Kyrie Irving is a stud and a star. If he had kept up his defensive intensity like he did in the beginning of the year when he was actually very good, he'd be more entrenched in the MVP conversation. The fact of the matter is, players like Lillard, Kyrie and Steph aren't that great defensively but they're still great athletes with their fair share of steals and what do their teams have in common? Top of the standings and in the top of the defensive standings as far as a team. Maybe they're the weak link defensively one on one, but there are ways to mask it with team defense and also their offense more than makes up for it. It's very difficult to play great defense and also put up 25-30 points a game. If Wade played every game like he does when we play LeBron and the Cavs, he'd still be worth a 15-20M a year contract, but he gets tired and would burn out. Same could be said for Kyrie and Curry. If you want them to play their heart out defensively they more than likely won't be as effective offensively.

    ANYWAY. Should actually focus these conversations on players we can actually get or trade for. I think we're going to be stuck in mediocrity for another couple years. We need a star. Wade in his prime for example along with Dragic and Whiteside and our pieces would work. This team right now will continuously make it to the 5th-8th seed in the East and just keep falling short. And with Tyler's salary going up and JJ getting older and Waiters needing new ankles. I just don't see us getting over the hump. And we have no draft picks because Riley is allergic to them and trades them like a hot potato.
    BRUH

  5. #1685
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    Quote Originally Posted by LRizzle View Post
    Kyrie Irving is a stud and a star. If he had kept up his defensive intensity like he did in the beginning of the year when he was actually very good, he'd be more entrenched in the MVP conversation. The fact of the matter is, players like Lillard, Kyrie and Steph aren't that great defensively but they're still great athletes with their fair share of steals and what do their teams have in common? Top of the standings and in the top of the defensive standings as far as a team. Maybe they're the weak link defensively one on one, but there are ways to mask it with team defense and also their offense more than makes up for it. It's very difficult to play great defense and also put up 25-30 points a game. If Wade played every game like he does when we play LeBron and the Cavs, he'd still be worth a 15-20M a year contract, but he gets tired and would burn out. Same could be said for Kyrie and Curry. If you want them to play their heart out defensively they more than likely won't be as effective offensively.

    ANYWAY. Should actually focus these conversations on players we can actually get or trade for. I think we're going to be stuck in mediocrity for another couple years. We need a star. Wade in his prime for example along with Dragic and Whiteside and our pieces would work. This team right now will continuously make it to the 5th-8th seed in the East and just keep falling short. And with Tyler's salary going up and JJ getting older and Waiters needing new ankles. I just don't see us getting over the hump. And we have no draft picks because Riley is allergic to them and trades them like a hot potato.
    You've just made a very solid case against us being able to draft high or trade our stable of role players for an established all-star.

    So what does that leave on the table for improving the team? My common sense tells me that only leaves 3 options:

    A) trading for sleepers
    B) late-drafed/walk-on sleepers
    C) existing player breaking out

    Out of those options A sounds most realistic, but all season long the majority here has gone hard at making sure to shoot down trade ideas for #1 scorer caliber guys who are tarnished just enough for a trade to be feasible (Cousins, Evsns, Wiggins, etc).

    Is it better to gamble on improvement or stay steady on the path of 6-8 seeds and pray no significant injury happens?

  6. #1686
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    You know, Whiteside's public complaining will not help in the recruiting process this offseason. I hope Wade still has some pull. If Riley doesn't bring in star (disgruntled or not) between the summer and next all star break, then I don't see hope to contend for championships until long after Riley and Wade are retired.

  7. #1687
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    Quote Originally Posted by AllBall View Post
    You know, Whiteside's public complaining will not help in the recruiting process this offseason. I hope Wade still has some pull. If Riley doesn't bring in star (disgruntled or not) between the summer and next all star break, then I don't see hope to contend for championships until long after Riley and Wade are retired.
    Recruiting? How are they recruiting anyone when we will be way over the cap and a luxury tax team?

    Are you talking about recruiting with the tax-payer MLE? Because that's all we'll have.

    Option "B" above includes free agency using the tax payer MLE.

  8. #1688
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    Quote Originally Posted by beasted86 View Post
    Recruiting? How are they recruiting anyone when we will be way over the cap and a luxury tax team?

    Are you talking about recruiting with the tax-payer MLE? Because that's all we'll have.

    Option "B" above includes free agency using the tax payer MLE.
    Like some media personalities have stated....

    Miami needs a star player to tell their organization that they want to be traded to Miami and only Miami. Pat has put together a roster to facilitate a trade like that.

    Said by windhorst and others.

    And as you can see, by the recent trades of star players, Miami has more then enough to get am All Star player.

    And lets not get into, well the organization can trade that player anywhere please. And soon as that player agents leaks, that his player will not be re-signing with another team, but the team he wants to be traded too, no deal would be made.

    Public perception would have token over by that point.







    Quote Originally Posted by IKnowHoops View Post
    As a rookie Micheal Beasley averaged 13.9pts per game on .472 shooting. Do you know how many times Kobe Bryant or Tracy Mcgrady shot at that percent or better? Never in there whole careers. If Beas can be what he was when he was a rookie (he won't hell be better) then the heat are coming away with another steal.

  9. #1689
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    Hasn't happened, look at how Paul George and Kyrie were not shipped to their preferred destination.

  10. #1690
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  11. #1691
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    hotdalton18 is offline Jags&Heat&Dodgers&Gators
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    Roster Speculation Thread XX

    Has anyone thought about how well Dragic/J-Rich/Ellington/KO fit with Bron?

    Like extremely well

    Use guys like Whiteside, JJ and Waiters to fetch pieces that fit more with Bron...we have our 2019 1st we can trade this off season to

    Whiteside to Dallas for Barnes

    Add our 1st to cap dump JJ and Waiters

    Dragic/Winslow
    J-Rich/TJ
    Bron/Ellington
    Barnes/
    KO/Bam



    2015-16 DPOY


    Hassan Whiteside

  12. #1692
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dade County View Post
    Like some media personalities have stated....

    Miami needs a star player to tell their organization that they want to be traded to Miami and only Miami. Pat has put together a roster to facilitate a trade like that.

    Said by windhorst and others.

    And as you can see, by the recent trades of star players, Miami has more then enough to get am All Star player.

    And lets not get into, well the organization can trade that player anywhere please. And soon as that player agents leaks, that his player will not be re-signing with another team, but the team he wants to be traded too, no deal would be made.

    Public perception would have token over by that point.
    You make a valid point.

    I'm just really leery that Wade on the cliff of retirement 36 years old, 32 year old Dragic, and Whiteside on a (possible) expiring contract would draw anyone significant.

    At least when Dragic requested the trade we had Bosh in his prime along with Wade with gas left in the tank.
    Last edited by beasted86; 04-09-2018 at 02:46 PM.

  13. #1693
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotdalton18 View Post
    Has anyone thought about how well Dragic/J-Rich/Ellington/KO fit with Bron?

    Like extremely well

    Use guys like Whiteside, JJ and Waiters to fetch pieces that fit more with Bron...we have our 2019 1st we can trade this off season to

    Whiteside to Dallas for Barnes

    Add our 1st to cap dump JJ and Waiters

    Dragic/Winslow
    J-Rich/TJ
    Bron/Ellington
    Barnes/
    KO/Bam
    Whiteside isn't going anywhere ... lol

    I am sure, Pat has bigger plans then this, he has to put together a team that can beat GS & OKC (I didn't add Houston because I feel that they are a regular season team, like all of Mike D'Antoni teams).


    Quote Originally Posted by beasted86 View Post
    You make a valid point.

    I'm just really leery that Wade on the cliff of retirement 36 years old, 32 year old Dragic, and Whiteside on a (possible) expiring contract would draw anyone significant.

    At least when Dragic requested the trade we had Bosh in his prime along with Wade with gas left in the tank.
    It would have to be guys like...

    Tj, JRich, JJ, KO & Whiteside.







    Quote Originally Posted by IKnowHoops View Post
    As a rookie Micheal Beasley averaged 13.9pts per game on .472 shooting. Do you know how many times Kobe Bryant or Tracy Mcgrady shot at that percent or better? Never in there whole careers. If Beas can be what he was when he was a rookie (he won't hell be better) then the heat are coming away with another steal.

  14. #1694
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    We need to stop trading away draft picks and just build around J-Rich and Bam. Winslow has been looking much better lately, must admit. Although his shot lacks so much touch it hurts. He either swishes it or it hits off the rim and rockets 10 feet into the air.

    We're going to have to make some funky trades to make things happen and build toward the future but it's going to be very tough. We need Waiters to get back to his last years form or take a Oladipo-esque leap. JJ and Winslow both played far better these past few weeks than in the first half of the season. I honestly don't know what will happen. And not only do we not have a 1st in this years draft, we don't even have a 2nd round pick either. Need to stop trading away the future and all these picks just to get a player 6-12 months earlier. Gave up so much to get Dragic.
    BRUH

  15. #1695
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    Quote Originally Posted by LRizzle View Post
    We need to stop trading away draft picks and just build around J-Rich and Bam. Winslow has been looking much better lately, must admit. Although his shot lacks so much touch it hurts. He either swishes it or it hits off the rim and rockets 10 feet into the air.

    We're going to have to make some funky trades to make things happen and build toward the future but it's going to be very tough. We need Waiters to get back to his last years form or take a Oladipo-esque leap. JJ and Winslow both played far better these past few weeks than in the first half of the season. I honestly don't know what will happen. And not only do we not have a 1st in this years draft, we don't even have a 2nd round pick either. Need to stop trading away the future and all these picks just to get a player 6-12 months earlier. Gave up so much to get Dragic.
    Not really. We had no cap space to sign Dragić outright, we had to trade.

    So far the deal is:

    Granger (bad contract), Cole, #16 pick + Unknown For Dragić.

    Pretty good deal so far. But I understand some prefer the opposite (not saying that's necessarily you). Without Dragić we'd probably be a bottom 10 team and some would rather have that than be middle pack headed to the playoffs.

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