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  1. #1
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    Salary Cap Issues upcoming for certain teams?

    Just wondering how some teams are going to make their salary cap situations work.

    How are the clippers going to pay Paul/Griffin/Jordan/Reddick/Moute? Wouldn't that essentially be the same team as now, with zero flexibility and probably the loss of some lesser pieces, what is that next year 7th in west?

    Celtics if they draft Fultz will have him, Bradley, isiah, smart, horford, etc causing a cap crunch next offseason, how does that work?

    Portland is a capped to the moon team that is the wests 8 seed, how do they make any changes if necessary?

    If the cavaliers fall short, who do they move, considering they are capped out?

    Finally Golden State, who is renounced after Durant/Curry sign maxes? And how does that impact a title defense if they win.

    Seems like change is coming. Not hating, I'm a Knicks fan, would rather these problems. We have Joakim Noah.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by nysportsfan23 View Post
    Just wondering how some teams are going to make their salary cap situations work.

    How are the clippers going to pay Paul/Griffin/Jordan/Reddick/Moute? Wouldn't that essentially be the same team as now, with zero flexibility and probably the loss of some lesser pieces, what is that next year 7th in west?
    They'll without a doubt lose Reddick. Moute might stay for the MMLE. Griffin extends this year. CP3 is the wildcard. Blake should sign for 1 and see what CP3 does.

    Quote Originally Posted by nysportsfan23 View Post
    Celtics if they draft Fultz will have him, Bradley, isiah, smart, horford, etc causing a cap crunch next offseason, how does that work?
    This might be one of the easier ones. If they draft Fultz/Ball/Smith JR; extend Bradley, Trade Isaiah, Trade Smart, Trade Crowder. Possibly all three together with the Nets swap for Butler. Then you have the cap to find a PF. Fultz/Ball/Smith-Bradley-Butler-FA PF-Horford.

    Quote Originally Posted by nysportsfan23 View Post
    Portland is a capped to the moon team that is the wests 8 seed, how do they make any changes if necessary?
    Give up picks with Turner and Crabbe to open up cap. Best off finding one stupid team that might take them (cough NO cough)(cough Sacramento cough). That's best hope. The worst case is having to trade CJ or Lillard for a kings ransom.

    Quote Originally Posted by nysportsfan23 View Post
    If the cavaliers fall short, who do they move, considering they are capped out?
    Hope JR is able to be dumped. In reality they need to find a way to move Love for some assets. They spent too much on TT/Love, and they let TT and JR hold them hostage over wanting to keep the team together. They should have really played a hard line with JR this year.

    Quote Originally Posted by nysportsfan23 View Post
    Finally Golden State, who is renounced after Durant/Curry sign maxes? And how does that impact a title defense if they win.
    Lose Iggy, Zaza, and Livingston. Keeping those 4 is going to really hurt them since they haven't exactly drafted great since then. They should really take the best deal they can for Klay to open up space through cheap contracts and picks.

    Quote Originally Posted by nysportsfan23 View Post
    Seems like change is coming. Not hating, I'm a Knicks fan, would rather these problems. We have Joakim Noah.
    Agreed that change is coming.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by nysportsfan23 View Post
    Just wondering how some teams are going to make their salary cap situations work.

    How are the clippers going to pay Paul/Griffin/Jordan/Reddick/Moute? Wouldn't that essentially be the same team as now, with zero flexibility and probably the loss of some lesser pieces, what is that next year 7th in west?

    Celtics if they draft Fultz will have him, Bradley, isiah, smart, horford, etc causing a cap crunch next offseason, how does that work?

    Portland is a capped to the moon team that is the wests 8 seed, how do they make any changes if necessary?

    If the cavaliers fall short, who do they move, considering they are capped out?

    Finally Golden State, who is renounced after Durant/Curry sign maxes? And how does that impact a title defense if they win.

    Seems like change is coming. Not hating, I'm a Knicks fan, would rather these problems. We have Joakim Noah.
    After reading your post, you've worried me about the situations of these unbelievably under pressure owners that can't afford to pay a luxury tax, as they have children to feed.

    Not sure I'll be able to sleep well tonight, as I will be considering these poor abused owners plights.
    Short Cut, Draw Blood

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    .
    Lose Iggy, Zaza, and Livingston. Keeping those 4 is going to really hurt them since they haven't exactly drafted great since then. They should really take the best deal they can for Klay to open up space through cheap contracts and picks.
    Yes they will renounce Iggy and Shaun. Zaza is on a 1 year deal and will either walk or come back for vet min. Iggy prob comes back on a 1 year vet while Shaun walks for a pay day. But even if they all walk we won't deal Klay. Ownership said they don't care about cap. They'll keep the team together. Only thing to break up the 4 will be if Klay wants to be a go to first option. He doesn't strike me as the type to mess with a good thing. We will go over the cap to keep the team together. Comes down to if the 4 want to finish together.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrueFan420 View Post
    Yes they will renounce Iggy and Shaun. Zaza is on a 1 year deal and will either walk or come back for vet min. Iggy prob comes back on a 1 year vet while Shaun walks for a pay day. But even if they all walk we won't deal Klay. Ownership said they don't care about cap. They'll keep the team together. Only thing to break up the 4 will be if Klay wants to be a go to first option. He doesn't strike me as the type to mess with a good thing. We will go over the cap to keep the team together. Comes down to if the 4 want to finish together.
    Iguodala said on the radio that he and Myers have talked and he fully expects to be back. So that's either the vet min or the MLE. Of course it would be nice to have the MLE for someone else, if that's what he wants I'd probably pay it.

  6. #6
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    This is what a salary cap is supposed to do create balance within the teams. Some teams again are just smarter about how they use their cap. If more GM's actually made brighter decisions the wealth would spread even faster. Some executives just can't help themselves when given cap space.


    "Eighteen Twenty-five _______"

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMightyHumph View Post
    After reading your post, you've worried me about the situations of these unbelievably under pressure owners that can't afford to pay a luxury tax, as they have children to feed.

    Not sure I'll be able to sleep well tonight, as I will be considering these poor abused owners plights.
    I don't think the post is about profitability, it's about being able to improve their teams.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    They'll without a doubt lose Reddick. Moute might stay for the MMLE. Griffin extends this year. CP3 is the wildcard. Blake should sign for 1 and see what CP3 does.
    They can pay Reddick, Griffin, and CP3 more than anyone else can ... my guess is they do that and use the MLE and vet minimums to try to make something happen. What they should do is fire Rivers the day after they are out of the playoffs.

    This might be one of the easier ones. If they draft Fultz/Ball/Smith JR; extend Bradley, Trade Isaiah, Trade Smart, Trade Crowder. Possibly all three together with the Nets swap for Butler. Then you have the cap to find a PF. Fultz/Ball/Smith-Bradley-Butler-FA PF-Horford.
    Ainge talks a good game, but I can't see him pulling off that trade, or anything close to it.

    Give up picks with Turner and Crabbe to open up cap. Best off finding one stupid team that might take them (cough NO cough)(cough Sacramento cough). That's best hope. The worst case is having to trade CJ or Lillard for a kings ransom.
    My guess is they essentially stand pat too. Expect young guys to improve.

    Hope JR is able to be dumped. In reality they need to find a way to move Love for some assets. They spent too much on TT/Love, and they let TT and JR hold them hostage over wanting to keep the team together. They should have really played a hard line with JR this year.
    Will anybody trade for their assets? I think the team stays pretty much the same next year except the vet minimum players rotate.

    Lose Iggy, Zaza, and Livingston. Keeping those 4 is going to really hurt them since they haven't exactly drafted great since then. They should really take the best deal they can for Klay to open up space through cheap contracts and picks.
    Iguodala implied he's coming back ... probably for part if not all of the MLE. "haven't exactly drafted great" ... so they traded away the 2013 and 2014 picks in a really stupid deal from 2009 and in the deal to get Iguodala which paid off with a title in Kerr's first year. Since then they've had 2 30th picks in the draft and picked one guy who can't stay healthy and a guy who was DL player of the month as a rookie this year. For the picks they've had they've done a pretty good job. In the same time they acquired and developed Ian Clark, James McAdoo, and most importantly Patrick McCaw (they also traded or lost Justin Holiday and Kent Bazemore). Zaza can go, and Livingston probably will choose to take the money but he may come back, McGee may come back (he said he wants to), and West may retire or come back, and McAdoo and Clark may leave ...

    So,
    Curry/McCaw
    Thompson/??? (Clark/Holiday?)
    Durant/Iguodala
    Green/Looney (McAdoo?)
    West/McGee/Jones

    That seems very workable to me to challenge for another title.



    I wonder what the:

    Jazz are going to do with Hayward, Hill, and Ingles.

    Pistons are going to do with KCP? Max?

    Raptors are going to do with Lowry and Ibaka

    Grizzlies are going to do with Randolph (would anyone else want him in today's NBA?) and JaMychal Green. Is this the end for Tony Allen and Vince Carter?

    Pelicans are going to do with Jrue Holiday

    Heat are going to do with Waiters

    Hawks are going to do with Milsap

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post

    I wonder what the:

    Jazz are going to do with Hayward, Hill, and Ingles.

    Pistons are going to do with KCP? Max?

    Raptors are going to do with Lowry and Ibaka

    Grizzlies are going to do with Randolph (would anyone else want him in today's NBA?) and JaMychal Green. Is this the end for Tony Allen and Vince Carter?

    Pelicans are going to do with Jrue Holiday

    Heat are going to do with Waiters

    Hawks are going to do with Milsap
    You and War did the original list of teams pretty thoroughly, so I'll go through your list and do those teams, then present a few of my own:

    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    Jazz are going to do with Hayward, Hill, and Ingles.
    Utah is currently $40 million under the projected tax line ($122 million is my current projection but it's fluid) and Hayward is in all likelihood going to have a Year 1 salary of just over $30 million. The Jazz are not paying the tax. It's an absolute non-starter for that market. So if they want to retain George Hill, they will likely have to find a way to clear around $10 million. There are a number of ways they could go about that. A Derrick Favors trade for a draft pick (and he'd net a pretty decent one) clears the money. Joe Johnson and/or Alec Burks would be harder to trade, but if absolutely necessary, the stretch provision (which pays players the total value of their contracts over 2x+1 the number of years left) on both would free around 3.5 million on Johnson and around $6 million on Burks, which also gets them to that same basic point. My best guess would be either a Favors trade, or using Dante Exum as bait to get someone to take Johnson or Burks. This also assumes that Boris Diaw's team-option is declined. Joe Ingles will leave unless Hayward does.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    Pistons are going to do with KCP? Max?
    Detroit's situation is predicted largely on Aron Baynes. If he accepts his player option, Detroit has over $95 million committed and a KCP max takes them essentially to the cap (considering they'll have a lottery pick to pay). Would ownership accept the tax on a non-playoff team? If Baynes declines his player option, a KCP max would be workable. We know KCP is getting a max offer. Brooklyn is going to make it, this has been reported widely. But whether or not Detroit can accept will be based largely on that Baynes option, or their ability to trade someone else. Of course, we've heard rumors about how unhappy Stan Van Gundy is with this roster. He might just blow it up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    Raptors are going to do with Lowry and Ibaka
    I wrote extensively about the Raptors cap situation here. The short answer is that if we make the two assumptions that the Raptors are honest in their intent to re-sign both Ibaka and Lowry and that Raptors will aim to stay below the projected luxury tax line, here are the moves I project they would make: trade DeMarre Carroll with a first round pick attached to a team with cap space (likely Brooklyn or Philly), give away Jonas Valanciunas, Cory Joseph, Paskal Siakam and Bebe Nogueira for free and stash their first round pick in Europe. That would give them a roster just below the tax line (with my projected contract numbers which are obviously imperfect) of Lowry, DeRozan, Tucker, Ibaka, Patterson, Powell, Wright and Poeltl with minimum slots/second round pick salaries filling out the rest of the roster.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    Grizzlies are going to do with Randolph (would anyone else want him in today's NBA?) and JaMychal Green. Is this the end for Tony Allen and Vince Carter?
    Aside from the total dollar values, there's also a very real order of operations concern in Memphis. If the Grizzlies wanted to, they could actually operate as a below-the-cap team by stretching Chandler Parsons. That would save them something like $12-13 million in immediate cap space, putting them at around $20 million in space overall if they renounced everyone else. That space would disappear the moment JaMychal Green signed because his minuscule cap hold (190% of $980,000) would be replaced by an actual contract. But if they signed a free agent first, they could keep Green as well with no real cap limitations (so long as his deal didn't launch them past the tax line). Would you rather retain the rights on ZBo, Allen and VC, or go for a free agent in the $20 million range (JJ Redick comes to mind) and hope you can use loyalty to convince one or some of those guys to take the minimum and/or BAE to come back? It's a tough call, especially since it means spending $70 million+ in real money to make Parsons go away. If the Grizzlies chose to simply bring everyone back and do nothing with Parsons, they have around $30 million with which to operate below the tax (which I'd think gets at least three out of the four back, if not all of them). If they attached picks to Parsons to convince someone to take him, they would be able to create max space.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    Pelicans are going to do with Jrue Holiday
    Pelicans will max Jrue out. They have no other recourse. They're looking at around $12 million in cap space this summer pre-Holiday contract, not close to enough to attract even George Hill much less the max guys. They can pay Holiday up to his max no questions asked, but to pay a free agent the same they'd have to stretch Solomon Hill, Omer Asik AND Etwaun Moore, or trade two of them (or one of them plus Alexis Ajinca). So they're basically stuck. Holiday has all of the leverage, and once they sign Boogie to his extension next summer (if he even stays) they'll be in the tax in virtual perpetuity. The lesson here is the be more careful with your contracts. New Orleans has almost $40 million dedicated to the four players listed above and Quincy Pondexter next season. If those contracts didn't exist they could fill both of their wing spots long term or maybe bring in a max guy to play with Boogie and Davis, who are both below market value right now. But those bad deals prevent them from taking advantage of the great value they're getting on their top two. So get ready for a horrible Jrue contract.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    Heat are going to do with Waiters
    I would bet my life on Waiters being gone. Miami will at least meet with whatever superstar free agent seriously considers leaving. I don't know who it will be, but of Curry, Durant, Paul, Griffin, Lowry and Hayward I imagine at least one plays the field a bit. Superstars take time to make their decisions. Players in Waiters' class sign the highest offer they get. It's just going to be a matter of timing, and frankly, 2018 is the first year Miami has real incentive to tank. They lose their pick to Phoenix if it falls outside of the top seven. The Heat may be satisfied with mediocrity this season, but it's fair to assume based on their franchise history that they won't be for long. My guess is that they tank next year to keep that pick and then surrender their unprotected 2019 pick to Phoenix after they've spent money in the 2018 offseason.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    Hawks are going to do with Millsap
    The Al Horford situation is instructive here. Atlanta was willing to give him five years, or they were willing to give him a four-year max, but they would not give him both five years and the max. Despite the Hawks offering him the most total money (and the highest AAV), Horford was so insulted by their refusal to give him the whole max that he left. You know who else Atlanta has insulted? Millsap, through constant trade rumors. He might be out the door already, but in order to keep him, I think we can reasonably say that Atlanta will have to do what they wouldn't with Horford last year and give him the full five-year max. I have serious doubts that they'll be willing to do that just knowing how they operate as a franchise. I expect Millsap to leave for that reason.

    There are two really interesting teams cap-wise that nobody has mentioned yet, and they're interesting for the same reasons: Philly and Minnesota.

    Minnesota has Towns, Wiggins and LaVine contracts upcoming, the latter two being eligible this offseason. This will be their last summer with meaningful cap space, but they'll have max cap space. Do they play with fire and offer someone a big contract to be an actual part of their long term core? Just to spit ball some names, Nikola Mirotic would be a nice stretch-4 for them and Thibs has coached him before, or they'd be a prime candidate for a restricted free agent (Otto Porter makes sense if Minnesota is willing to go smaller). Will Minnesota put themselves in long-term tax trouble to add an impact piece now (and realistically this is at least two years away from coming to fruition)? Or will they be frugal?

    Philly is in the same boat. Embiid is up for his extension now (though he'll probably sign next summer as an RFA) and the rest of the young guys are coming. They aren't in as much of a hurry as Minnesota, but we've all heard the Kyle Lowry rumors. Would Colangelo, who traded for him in Toronto, max him out knowing that the back end of that contract will unequivocally look bad (especially since by then Simmons, Embiid and Saric at least will be on second contracts)?

    Do either of those teams get creative with their cap space and take on someone else's problem? Philly's timeline matches up perfectly to accept Chandler Parsons without even needing to space him (same goes for Evan Turner or Joakim Noah). Minnesota could do that on a shorter deal. I'm just really curious to see how these teams treat their cap space, because right now, it's an actual asset for them. It won't be forever, and it's very much an "if you don't use it, you lose it" situation. I do think Philly pays a veteran point guard, and I think Minnesota signs a free agent they're confident they can flip if necessary (or get someone on a short enough deal it won't matter). But those are the two big wild cards in my eyes.
    Last edited by Quinnsanity; 04-12-2017 at 02:33 AM.
    POOP

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinnsanity View Post
    There are two really interesting teams cap-wise that nobody has mentioned yet, and they're interesting for the same reasons: Philly and Minnesota.

    Philly is in the same boat. Embiid is up for his extension now (though he'll probably sign next summer as an RFA) and the rest of the young guys are coming. They aren't in as much of a hurry as Minnesota, but we've all heard the Kyle Lowry rumors. Would Colangelo, who traded for him in Toronto, max him out knowing that the back end of that contract will unequivocally look bad (especially since by then Simmons, Embiid and Saric at least will be on second contracts)?

    Do either of those teams get creative with their cap space and take on someone else's problem? Philly's timeline matches up perfectly to accept Chandler Parsons without even needing to space him (same goes for Evan Turner or Joakim Noah). Minnesota could do that on a shorter deal. I'm just really curious to see how these teams treat their cap space, because right now, it's an actual asset for them. It won't be forever, and it's very much an "if you don't use it, you lose it" situation. I do think Philly pays a veteran point guard, and I think Minnesota signs a free agent they're confident they can flip if necessary (or get someone on a short enough deal it won't matter). But those are the two big wild cards in my eyes.
    Our situation is easy:

    ~ Turn down the option on Gerald Henderson
    ~ Let Sergio walk.
    ~ Pick up options on Holmes, RoCo, TJ McConnell

    That would leave us close to $80mil in cap space.

    Right now offer Embiid a 4 year $60-70 mil deal, basically a modern cap size version of the contract Curry got. If he says he rather bet on his health, then we match any offer in RFA.

    So that's only taking about $17-18 mil of the cap. Still have $62 mil to spend.

    Max out one of Jrue Holiday, Kyle Lowry, Gordon Hayward. Any one of those three would fit perfectly and we still have $30ish mil to spend. Plus our high pick, potential of LAL high pick, a boatload of 2nds.

    So (health dependent) we could have locked up with cap space to spare:
    Embiid, Simmons, Saric, Lowry/Holiday/Hayward, TLC, Rookie 1, Rookie 2 (potentially)

    Then you count on the cap still going up some, ability to sign over the cap to keep your players (Simmons, Saric, RoCo), incoming 2019 unprotected Kings pick, some overseas assets.

    I think you tried to make it sound a little more tough than it really is.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    Our situation is easy:

    ~ Turn down the option on Gerald Henderson
    ~ Let Sergio walk.
    ~ Pick up options on Holmes, RoCo, TJ McConnell

    That would leave us close to $80mil in cap space.

    Right now offer Embiid a 4 year $60-70 mil deal, basically a modern cap size version of the contract Curry got. If he says he rather bet on his health, then we match any offer in RFA.

    So that's only taking about $17-18 mil of the cap. Still have $62 mil to spend.

    Max out one of Jrue Holiday, Kyle Lowry, Gordon Hayward. Any one of those three would fit perfectly and we still have $30ish mil to spend. Plus our high pick, potential of LAL high pick, a boatload of 2nds.

    So (health dependent) we could have locked up with cap space to spare:
    Embiid, Simmons, Saric, Lowry/Holiday/Hayward, TLC, Rookie 1, Rookie 2 (potentially)

    Then you count on the cap still going up some, ability to sign over the cap to keep your players (Simmons, Saric, RoCo), incoming 2019 unprotected Kings pick, some overseas assets.

    I think you tried to make it sound a little more tough than it really is.
    Maxing Lowry out isn't a good idea he's already over 30. Nobody should give Holiday a max. Haward on the other hand makes sense. But honestly I'd hold tight and continue to trust the process of developing the talent already on the roster.


    "Eighteen Twenty-five _______"

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    Quote Originally Posted by da ThRONe View Post
    Maxing Lowry out isn't a good idea he's already over 30. Nobody should give Holiday a max. Haward on the other hand makes sense. But honestly I'd hold tight and continue to trust the process of developing the talent already on the roster.
    We would have to max any of those guys to get them to come. We have to overpay.

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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    We would have to max any of those guys to get them to come. We have to overpay.
    That's why my personal philosophy is to just wait and cultivate the talent you already have. All those guys are in the same time line and depending on who Philly can get this year as many as 3 may be projected as franchise changing talents.


    "Eighteen Twenty-five _______"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinnsanity View Post
    You and War did the original list of teams pretty thoroughly, so I'll go through your list and do those teams, then present a few of my own: <sniiiiiiiiiiiip>
    Excellent post! Thanks.

    I wonder if teams will be even more shy of the tax now that the cap isn't going up as much as they hoped. The new TV deal is a 9 year deal but there isn't any new big source of revenue on the horizon to increase those numbers. I think that is part of why the league is talking about advertising on jerseys.

    The Jazz might be willing to flirt with the tax with their position as the best up and coming team in the west. Favors has a lot of injury history to net a high draft pick AND a big new contract, so while the Jazz may find a trade partner, I suspect they would not get much in return.

    The 4 players you have the Raps throwing away seem like they would draw more trade interest than "nothing".

    On the Grizz ... if Reddick moved to Memphis the Clippers would essentially HAVE to blow up their team. I get the impression the Grizzlies are just going to keep trying to have a decent team around Conley and Gasol while staying under the tax, so the question is indeed Parsons and Green and how they are valued by the team.

    Waiters should take less to stay in Miami, but he's probably not smart enough to do that. I don't think Miami tanks, but it's not impossible.

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    Philly doesn't have contract problems, they have talent problems.

    The Sixers can stay in The Process and add some mid-grade guards to help them out.

    Darren Collison, Patty Mills, Justin Holiday, CJ Miles ... guys who are just in their primes but not max players, and are solid teammates with decent all-around guard games.

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