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  1. #16
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    May 2009
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    2,069
    I would temper my optimism as cautiously optimistic for next years forward group based on what it appears it will be. I think Weal has added a good ingredient to this lineup and I'd be OK with projecting him as a guy who can take over a forward spot. I know we tend to like a lot of these guys individually and there is enough talent there to give us the perception that we have very good options and potential. However, in the end the numbers don't lie and the fact is we just don't score enough. You can blame the coach, the system, bad luck, a fluke year......but in the end, finishers find a way to finish. So my hesitation is that we have enough guys who appear talented enough, enough high profile players with experience......but do we have enough guys who finish and bury the goal when they have the opportunity at key moments in the game.

    So I have some reservations that way. I like Weal but can he stay consistent over a full NHL schedule? How will Lindblom transition into the NHL? With Lindblom, Weal, TK, Raffl, Vecchione that's 5 of our top 12 with limited NHL experience. I am OK with that and we have to do that at this point but it's not ideal. Raffl has been in and out so I still consider him to not exactly be experienced as much.

    But the upside.....if Giroux and Ghost can start out next year physically where they finished that itself is a huge boost to the offense. Give me a full year of Raffl, Vecchione and PEB on the fourth line and this is cause for encouragement over previous years. Then you can mix and match the other 9 in several different combinations to be effective.

  2. #17
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    May 2009
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    2,069
    And based on where we are youth wise, I don't think there are truly a lot of BOLD choices Hextall has to make. Because essentially if all he does is bring up the Defense prospects, bring back Weal, Bring up Lindblom then everyone in the fanbase and hockey world is pretty satisfied. Those are pretty safe moves so in order for Hextall to get a passing grade in the off-season all he HAS to do is make the moves everyone expects him to make.

    But the one area that is going to be what he's judged on is the goaltending. On paper there isn't a wrong way to go between either somehow re-signing Mason or rolling with Stolarz as the #1 and Neuvy as the back up. But truthfully he can't be judged on that until December next year when we see how it's working out. But I don't think either thought process is bad at this point.

    The more I think the more Hextall's grade will come in December......we will find out two things about him. 1. Whether whichever way he goes on goaltending worked out 2. Hakstol...whether after getting two years in the NHL put him in a spot to make the on ice product work or if we are underperforming if Hexy makes the decision to pull the plug.

    I think we play it relatively safe and by the book over the summer..........December is the true mark of how we go from there. I think once we get to December that missing the playoffs again won't be an acceptable option for this team and changes will be made.

  3. #18
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    Jul 2008
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    7,874
    Quote Originally Posted by phillyeaglesman View Post
    Given the injuries I'd be surprised to see Rubtsov in the AHL next year. Who knows, maybe he impresses enough to earn that, but it wouldn't shock me to see Hextall send him back and give him a Provorov/Hart-esque mission to be the best forward in junior hockey next season.


    Leier frankly just may not have a spot on the team. Think of all the players that are going to be in the bottom 6 next year. Where does he fit? Who does he beat out (lets just assume PEB and Weise are locks)?

    Picture this as a forward group:

    Konecny-Giroux-Simmonds

    Weal-Filppula-Voracek

    Lindblom-Couturier-Schenn

    Raffl-Vecchione-Weise/PEB


    That's not even including Read if he somehow returns. Where does Leier fit? Or even Cousins for that matter? How about the forgotten men Laughton and NAK? I don't see VandeVelde coming back with this group in place.


    I actually really like the Flyers forward group going into next season the more I look at it. Having 3 centers allows you to play Weal pretty much anywhere and not have to be "the guy" on a line. I like Weise as a 4th liner to give them some scoring punch and Raffl would be one of the best 4th liners in the league with his shot suppression and play driving ability. Vecchione has some speed and could add some scoring, too. And in a small sample he's done well in FOs.


    I'm totally fine with trading Schenn to upgrade 5v5 scoring if possible, but if you can't, this group is pretty deep.
    lets assume we lose Filppula via trade and Weal to UFA/expansion

    TK-G-Simmonds
    Lindblom -- Voracek
    Raf Couturier Schenn
    PEB-Vechionne-Weise

    What happens then? I think that is a decent % we could lose Weal and Filppula

    What are thoughts about...

    TK-G-Simmonds
    Lindblom-Couturier-Voracek
    Raf-Vechionne-Schenn
    Leier-PEB-Weise
    Or
    Leier-Cousins-Weise/PEB

  4. #19
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    Jul 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by castan_b View Post
    lets assume we lose Filppula via trade and Weal to UFA/expansion

    TK-G-Simmonds
    Lindblom -- Voracek
    Raf Couturier Schenn
    PEB-Vechionne-Weise

    What happens then? I think that is a decent % we could lose Weal and Filppula

    What are thoughts about...

    TK-G-Simmonds
    Lindblom-Couturier-Voracek
    Raf-Vechionne-Schenn
    Leier-PEB-Weise
    Or
    Leier-Cousins-Weise/PEB
    Probably should use that filpulla money on a Rick Nash type then.. otherwise I don't know where that 5 mil Is in this scenario

  5. #20
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    Feb 2009
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    3,312
    Quote Originally Posted by txravis12 View Post
    Probably should use that filpulla money on a Rick Nash type then.. otherwise I don't know where that 5 mil Is in this scenario
    Hell no to Rick Nash or a Rick Nash type. There is nobody to get unless we actually DO trade Giroux. I don't want that to happen, but there is a possibility there. I couldn't imagine where we would send him though....Edmonton?

  6. #21
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    Jul 2010
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    8,645
    Quote Originally Posted by LLMunchie619 View Post
    Hell no to Rick Nash or a Rick Nash type. There is nobody to get unless we actually DO trade Giroux. I don't want that to happen, but there is a possibility there. I couldn't imagine where we would send him though....Edmonton?
    Why?

    You're not going to be paying him $7.8M if he's bought out. He'll get prove it deal like Eric Staal or Thomas Vanek ($3M AAV, 1-2 years).

    Nash is a physical winger and an exceptional scorer. He's exactly what Giroux needs on his wing to maximize his talents.

    I'd love to see a line of Nash - Giroux - Voracek....that would be one line that's near impossible to stop.

  7. #22
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    Feb 2010
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    If he is bought out, sure I'll take him at around 3 mil aav on a 1-2 deal.

  8. #23
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    Jan 2010
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    California
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    9,133
    Quote Originally Posted by castan_b View Post
    lets assume we lose Filppula via trade and Weal to UFA/expansion

    TK-G-Simmonds
    Lindblom -- Voracek
    Raf Couturier Schenn
    PEB-Vechionne-Weise

    What happens then? I think that is a decent % we could lose Weal and Filppula

    What are thoughts about...

    TK-G-Simmonds
    Lindblom-Couturier-Voracek
    Raf-Vechionne-Schenn
    Leier-PEB-Weise
    Or
    Leier-Cousins-Weise/PEB
    ya I would assume that if Flip is gone to expansion, then Couts will slot back to 2nd line and Vecchione would be the new 3rd line C. That would open up a spot for leier/laughton/cousins or even weal to stay somewhere. Not many options anywhere in FA for centers. I hope they don't take Flip

  9. #24
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    Feb 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ace23 View Post
    Why?

    You're not going to be paying him $7.8M if he's bought out. He'll get prove it deal like Eric Staal or Thomas Vanek ($3M AAV, 1-2 years).

    Nash is a physical winger and an exceptional scorer. He's exactly what Giroux needs on his wing to maximize his talents.

    I'd love to see a line of Nash - Giroux - Voracek....that would be one line that's near impossible to stop.
    If he's bought out, yeah, I could see that. He would have to take somewhere in that Vanek/Staal range. I wasn't aware of that happening though? Is this a thing?

  10. #25
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    Jul 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by LLMunchie619 View Post
    Hell no to Rick Nash or a Rick Nash type. There is nobody to get unless we actually DO trade Giroux. I don't want that to happen, but there is a possibility there. I couldn't imagine where we would send him though....Edmonton?
    Why no? 6'4" pwf who can skate, and score are few an far between in this league.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace23 View Post
    Why?

    You're not going to be paying him $7.8M if he's bought out. He'll get prove it deal like Eric Staal or Thomas Vanek ($3M AAV, 1-2 years).

    Nash is a physical winger and an exceptional scorer. He's exactly what Giroux needs on his wing to maximize his talents.

    I'd love to see a line of Nash - Giroux - Voracek....that would be one line that's near impossible to stop.
    This. Exactly this.

    Quote Originally Posted by CasperX22 View Post
    If he is bought out, sure I'll take him at around 3 mil aav on a 1-2 deal.
    What's wrong with Nash on a 1 year deal for 7? The rags need to shed salary somewhere this off-season. Girardi and staal are almost unmovable at this point.

    Nash could probably be had for pennies on the dollar, and he fits a legitimate need. He's also only a 1 year deal, and if flip is moved (which is doubtful) the money is there. No risk, yet a perfect plug and play #1 LW who could probably score 30 beside Giroux. Even this version of G.

  11. #26
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    Jul 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by txravis12 View Post
    Why no? 6'4" pwf who can skate, and score are few an far between in this league.



    This. Exactly this.



    What's wrong with Nash on a 1 year deal for 7? The rags need to shed salary somewhere this off-season. Girardi and staal are almost unmovable at this point.

    Nash could probably be had for pennies on the dollar, and he fits a legitimate need. He's also only a 1 year deal, and if flip is moved (which is doubtful) the money is there. No risk, yet a perfect plug and play #1 LW who could probably score 30 beside Giroux. Even this version of G.
    Honestly, Giroux is fine. He had off-season hip surgery. Every doctor and medical website says that it takes at least a year to get back to 100%. This is nothing new. This isn't conjecture. This is the inevitable conclusion reached by reading reams and reams medical data...and this isn't a hip surgery-only phenomenon: you see the same type of recovery period for reconstructive knee surgery, lis franc surgery, achilles surgery, Tommy John surgery, etc.

    Giroux went under the knife in June, 2016.

    Based on that, I'd expect him to be around 75-80% in March, 2017. Lo and behold, he started scoring at (roughly) a 0.85 PPG pace in March.

    That lines up exactly with what we thought Giroux is: an 80-95 point player when healthy.

    All that said, was this season a disappointment? Absolutely. Was Giroux's production sub-par? No question. Does he need to be better? Damn right.

    But before the sky falls, let's remember: (1) Giroux played on one leg for most of the season; (2) Giroux had about 8 different LWs, none of whom were particularly adept at scoring; (3) the entire team sucked; (4) the system is definitely not conducive to facilitating creative plays and (5) we were playing from behind wayyyyyy too much.

  12. #27
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    Feb 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by txravis12 View Post
    Why no? 6'4" pwf who can skate, and score are few an far between in this league.



    This. Exactly this.



    What's wrong with Nash on a 1 year deal for 7? The rags need to shed salary somewhere this off-season. Girardi and staal are almost unmovable at this point.

    Nash could probably be had for pennies on the dollar, and he fits a legitimate need. He's also only a 1 year deal, and if flip is moved (which is doubtful) the money is there. No risk, yet a perfect plug and play #1 LW who could probably score 30 beside Giroux. Even this version of G.
    If you give Ghost a new long term contract this off-season Nash with a 7.8m cap hit becomes impractical unless you have no plans of signing Cousins, Weal, Veccione, etc.

  13. #28
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    Jul 2007
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    2,084
    Weal is an unrestricted free agent.

  14. #29
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
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    South Jersey
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    Filppula still has his NMC, it was transferred over, therefore he must be protected in the expansion draft.

    And I'm more than ok with that. He brings balance to the lineup and 5v5 production. Not sure why you'd want to get rid of a guy who fills a clear hole and you're only tied to for next season. He's the perfect stopgap.


    In other news:
    - MDZ noted today at the locker clean out that Hexy basically told him the organization is moving in another direction and will be looking to add youth to the blue line.
    - Mason said he had a very candid conversation with Hextall today about a goalie tandem not working and that he felt he should have been the #1 all along. He said there needs to be a clear distinction between the #1 and the backup. He said he wants to return and Hextall told him that door is not closed; Mase would just like to know soon so he can plan accordingly.
    - Ghost said he started playing better when he just started to go out and have fun and try to make mistakes without worrying about getting yelled at.
    - Couts said he tweaked his knee a few times after he came back from injury and it took him a little while to feel right again. He also mentioned he feels he has had chemistry with Schenn since the lockout year with the Phantoms and hopes they stay together next year.
    - Voracek was not happy with his production this season. He noted that he knows if this team doesn't perform well next season that he feels the team will get blown up, that only winning 1 playoff round in his tenure is unacceptable.

    Also, Hextall has chosen Hakstol as an assistant coach for Canada at the Worlds, so any idea that he may be fired before the season can be put to rest.

  15. #30
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    Feb 2015
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    Seoul
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    289
    Just want to piggyback off of a couple of the earlier posts:

    Giroux isn't the same Giroux from 2011 but he's still a damn good center. If he puts up similar numbers next year while he's healthy, then I start to get worried. I think he puts up around 70 points next year. I think it's crazy there's been this much talk about trading him (not just in this forum).

    I'd definitely give Nash a look if he's bought out. If he's not, I'd look at him next offseason when we should have more cap space. He's exactly what this lineup needs to give us legitamite scoring depth. Those top three lines could be something special.

    I doubt flip moves. I love that he's on a one year contract. It's ideal.

    From what I've read, mason could come back. It would be amazing if Vegas took neuvy in the expansion. The projected roster with mason/ stolarz in net could make for a fun season.

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