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  1. #1
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    Replace MJ's production with Similar Players. Is he still "Greatest of All Time"?

    So over a few threads this past week, there has been discussion(s) that have implied that maybe MJ had benefitted massively from his teammates. I wanted to take a non-joking look at that.

    I'm not really sure how to set up the scenario but if you replace MJ with a "similar" player his the teams he played on, do they exeperience the same amount, more, or comparable success?

    Another way to look at it is if you put MJ on recent Final contending teams, does he lead to a different or similar result?

    1.) So if you replaced MJ with Kobe would the Lakers have 4 in a row? Or if you have Lebon replaced with MJ on his recent finals teams, would MJ have a better or worse record compared to Lebrons 3 Title Wins and 4 Title Losses?

    2.) If you put a similar combination of players on MJ's teams, would he have won at least 6 titles?


    As far as evaluating if you compared Shaq and Mj I guess the easiest way to find 2 similar players would be to add their WinShare (I assume its similar to WAR in baseball? Good on paper but also flawed once you dig into it?).


    So for this, I used WinShare in prime years and looked at his teammates prime years win share.
    Assume for this that instead of having Scottie Pippen for 3 years, you have him 6 and replace his and MJ production of 29.76 (rounded to 36).

    So this is where it gets interesting:

    MJ and Scottie have 29.76 Prime WinShare combined
    Kobe and Lebron have 30.34.

    That is close enough. So assume you have the same other 3 teammates. What tandem would you take.

    I also have the calculations done for the majority contributors on MJ's team in prime years using my judgement, that were on at least 3+ of his title teams.

    All #'s taken from Baskeball Reff.

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-H...ew?usp=sharing


    What do you guys think?
    Last edited by Giannis94; 01-31-2017 at 12:12 PM.
    MTM is my puppet and I am his puppet master.

  2. #2
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    Yes. 37ppg is all you have to say to yourself, then say 6 championships, then say all defensive team 10+ times, then say, playoff leader in ppg, then say 50%fg shooter career as a shooting guard, etc....Hell yeah he's the greatest. Also, ask yourself. What if he didn't retire twice? If that doesn't convince you, then say JORDAN''S...Biggest sports icon ever....
    49ers, lakers, sf giants, la kings fan...but im a mountaineer for life..wv to cali...

  3. #3
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    MJ switched to baseball at the peak of his career because he was too good for the league, Lebron begs for all the help he can get just to squeeze out a ring or two. That should tell you enough about who the GOAT is.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miltstar View Post
    MJ switched to baseball at the peak of his career because he was too good for the league, Lebron begs for all the help he can get just to squeeze out a ring or two. That should tell you enough about who the GOAT is.
    valid point.
    MTM is my puppet and I am his puppet master.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brewer94 View Post
    valid point.
    I don't know why people have such a hard time admitting that LBJ simply has not lived up to his potential and all the hype. Probably the same reason he still can't admit it himself. I'm not saying he's not an all time great, but I honestly believe that Giannis is going to leave a greater legacy, I'm with you on that one.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miltstar View Post
    I don't know why people have such a hard time admitting that LBJ simply has not lived up to his potential and all the hype. Probably the same reason he still can't admit it himself. I'm not saying he's not an all time great, but I honestly believe that Giannis is going to leave a greater legacy, I'm with you on that one.
    It's going to be tough considering Giannis isn't better than LeBron at... well... anything... and hasn't accomplished...well...anything. But good luck.


    Kristaps Porzingis
    Stronger than most 15 year old girls.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoveCaliFan View Post
    Yes. 37ppg is all you have to say to yourself, then say 6 championships, then say all defensive team 10+ times, then say, playoff leader in ppg, then say 50%fg shooter career as a shooting guard, etc....Hell yeah he's the greatest. Also, ask yourself. What if he didn't retire twice? If that doesn't convince you, then say JORDAN''S...Biggest sports icon ever....
    Yeah the OP is such a rambling incoherent post with like 5 different questions that the only response is "Yes. MJ is the goat."


    Kristaps Porzingis
    Stronger than most 15 year old girls.

  8. #8
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    Yep best ever.

  9. #9
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    How he did it is even bigger than the numbers.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldawg View Post
    How he did it is even bigger than the numbers.
    +1

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by KnicksorBust View Post
    It's going to be tough considering Giannis isn't better than LeBron at... well... anything... and hasn't accomplished...well...anything. But good luck.
    Not true, but the NFL Mock has started and I don't want to get banned so I'll sip my tea on this one.You are wrong, though.
    MTM is my puppet and I am his puppet master.

  12. #12
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    there isn't a similar player to replace him with
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brewer94 View Post
    Not true, but the NFL Mock has started and I don't want to get banned so I'll sip my tea on this one.You are wrong, though.
    we have similar personalities, you are not wrong my friend, but shoving your opinion down people's throat is not going to help you. Sip your tea and be peaceful! I respect you.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miltstar View Post
    MJ switched to baseball at the peak of his career because he was too good for the league, Lebron begs for all the help he can get just to squeeze out a ring or two. That should tell you enough about who the GOAT is.
    you sure he left the NBA because he was too good? Might have been another reason....maybe one that got him in trouble with the wrong people...

    Jordan is the GOAT, for many reasons. His front office got him the right help just as he was heading into his peak, and kept his roster support at a chip level for eternity. Jordan himself did what was necessary to keep his legacy where it was, and ended up. But let's not act like a few lucky scenarios didn't roll his way as well.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miltstar View Post
    I don't know why people have such a hard time admitting that LBJ simply has not lived up to his potential and all the hype. Probably the same reason he still can't admit it himself. I'm not saying he's not an all time great, but I honestly believe that Giannis is going to leave a greater legacy, I'm with you on that one.
    LeBron didn't live up to his potential? Top 3 ever when done (top 5-8 now), isn't living up to his potential?

    Yikes

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

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