OT thread NOT intended for political discussion.

[spliff(TONE)]

So....three pointers don't count?

[Kinkotheclown]

So....three pointers don't count?

For sure.

My point was more that Bronbron gets to play in an era where no one will knock him down. No one ever did it. There was no Barkley, Malone, Oakley... who would challenge him in the paint.
He's the benefactor of longevity because of rule changes, as is Brady. Both games are far, far less physical and allow for healthier careers.
It isn't a bad thing. It just changes how people should look at their numbers.

[metswon69]

For sure.

My point was more that Bronbron gets to play in an era where no one will knock him down. No one ever did it. There was no Barkley, Malone, Oakley... who would challenge him in the paint.
He's the benefactor of longevity because of rule changes, as is Brady. Both games are far, far less physical and allow for healthier careers.
It isn't a bad thing. It just changes how people should look at their numbers.

To be fair to Lebron, he also kept himself in far better shape than a lot of his predecessors. I mean Michael Jordan was playing with a pot belly at 38 years old. Lebron spends millions of dollars on his body every year to be in excellent physical condition. Same with Brady although one could argue Brady had some suspect friends when it came to his conditioning. No doubt their longevity was helped by a softer league but its not just that.

To me, Lebron is the 2nd best player in league history. People can fault him for the 6 Finals losses but the fact that he's made 10 finals, won a title with 3 different teams and will hold so many statistical records puts him only behind Jordan imo.

[Kinkotheclown]

To be fair to Lebron, he also kept himself in far better shape than a lot of his predecessors. I mean Michael Jordan was playing with a pot belly at 38 years old. Lebron spends millions of dollars on his body every year to be in excellent physical condition. Same with Brady although one could argue Brady had some suspect friends when it came to his conditioning. No doubt their longevity was helped by a softer league but its not just that.

To me, Lebron is the 2nd best player in league history. People can fault him for the 6 Finals losses but the fact that he's made 10 finals, won a title with 3 different teams and will hold so many statistical records puts him only behind Jordan imo.

I think LeBron is behind a few guys because of his lack of drive in the final moment.
Russel never lost a game seven or a one and done. He willed his teams to victory.
Jordan would have smoked LeBron on every level.
I personally think Kobe in his prime would have smoked Lebron

I think Lebron is too concerned with brand and not enough with winning.

[metswon69]

I think LeBron is behind a few guys because of his lack of drive in the final moment.
Russel never lost a game seven or a one and done. He willed his teams to victory.
Jordan would have smoked LeBron on every level.
I personally think Kobe in his prime would have smoked Lebron

I think Lebron is too concerned with brand and not enough with winning.

Thats a fair criticism but I do think LeBron wanted to win earlier in his career. The only dud he had in the finals was in 2011 against the Mavericks. He's been great in the finals otherwise. The Heat and Cavs ran into better teams imo in those other 5 finals losses. The Warriors had to beg Durant to come to California to beat LeBron and some of those Heat teams weren't as good of teams as the Spurs. If he has 6 or 7 finals wins as opposed to 4, no one would argue that he was basically the 1st or 2nd best player in league history. It just didn't work out that way.

[Kinkotheclown]

Thats a fair criticism but I do think LeBron wanted to win earlier in his career. The only dud he had in the finals was in 2011 against the Mavericks. He's been great in the finals otherwise. The Heat and Cavs ran into better teams imo in those other 5 finals losses. The Warriors had to beg Durant to come to California to beat LeBron and some of those Heat teams weren't as good of teams as the Spurs. If he has 6 or 7 finals wins as opposed to 4, no one would argue that he was basically the 1st or 2nd best player in league history. It just didn't work out that way.

Good points. The difference to me is that LBJ passed the ball to teammates in crunch time. He did it all the time. It's like he didn't want he ball.
MJ wanted the ball.
Russel wanted the ball
Kobe wanted the ball

LBJ seemed to shy away from that light.
If he didn't and he had that killer instinct? It's probably not even an argument for him being number 1

[goingfor28]

For sure.

My point was more that Bronbron gets to play in an era where no one will knock him down. No one ever did it. There was no Barkley, Malone, Oakley... who would challenge him in the paint.
He's the benefactor of longevity because of rule changes, as is Brady. Both games are far, far less physical and allow for healthier careers.
It isn't a bad thing. It just changes how people should look at their numbers.

The Bad Boy Pistons 30 for 30 is one of my favorite sports shows I've ever seen. I wish the NBA was still that physical.

LeBron wouldn't have survived in that era. Zero chance. The guy acts like he just got shot whenever someone breathes on him. Softest 6'8 250 ever created.

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

[Kinkotheclown]

The Bad Boy Pistons 30 for 30 is one of my favorite sports shows I've ever seen. I wish the NBA was still that physical.

LeBron wouldn't have survived in that era. Zero chance. The guy acts like he just got shot whenever someone breathes on him. Softest 6'8 250 ever created.

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

100%

Just like every time Brady gets hit or throws and incompletion, he holds up his arms to petition a penalty

[metswon69]

The Bad Boy Pistons 30 for 30 is one of my favorite sports shows I've ever seen. I wish the NBA was still that physical.

LeBron wouldn't have survived in that era. Zero chance. The guy acts like he just got shot whenever someone breathes on him. Softest 6'8 250 ever created.

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

If Magic Johnson could succeed in that era, so could have LeBron. He just would have played PG for most of his career as opposed to being a point forward. Its hard to compare eras anyways. LeBron's athleticism when he was in his prime was arguably second to nobody. He would have taken a beating but he could have run circles around guys like Oakley, Laimbeer, Barkley, etc. Nobody would have been able to adequately defend him.

[ShadyOne]

I do think that if he was playing all along, in that time, he would have played like they do, and he would be a more physical player. Growing up learning to play in todays style, he plays the way he does

[metswon69]

I do think that if he was playing all along, in that time, he would have played like they do, and he would be a more physical player. Growing up learning to play in todays style, he plays the way he does

Yup. If LeBron had played in the late 80s to the turn of the century, he would have been a more physical player and given his build/athleticism, he would have been almost impossible to stop. His talent translates to any era and he's arguably the most talented player in NBA history. How many guys have LeBron's passing vision, his scoring talent, the ability to get to the basket, etc?

[ShadyOne]

Yup. If LeBron had played in the late 80s to the turn of the century, he would have been a more physical player and given his build/athleticism, he would have been almost impossible to stop. His talent translates to any era and he's arguably the most talented player in NBA history. How many guys have LeBron's passing vision, his scoring talent, the ability to get to the basket, etc?

I don’t think he’s “most talented in NBA history”. I think the blend of athletic ability, and court IQ, is what makes him what he is. That IQ IMO is his greatest asset, and what separates him from the other greats.

I’d have a hard time not putting him #2 overall. I will say, though, that someone like Bird would have been devastating in todays game. Basically would be like Luka, but tougher, and a better shooter. Bird was basically the blueprint for the “point forward” that everyone wants now. I mean, even then, he had a long stretch at being the dominant player in the league. Imagine now, being encouraged to handle the ball more, and shoot a lot of 3s

[spliff(TONE)]

I do think that if he was playing all along, in that time, he would have played like they do, and he would be a more physical player. Growing up learning to play in todays style, he plays the way he does

Bingo

[metswon69]

I don’t think he’s “most talented in NBA history”. I think the blend of athletic ability, and court IQ, is what makes him what he is. That IQ IMO is his greatest asset, and what separates him from the other greats.

I’d have a hard time not putting him #2 overall. I will say, though, that someone like Bird would have been devastating in todays game. Basically would be like Luka, but tougher, and a better shooter. Bird was basically the blueprint for the “point forward” that everyone wants now. I mean, even then, he had a long stretch at being the dominant player in the league. Imagine now, being encouraged to handle the ball more, and shoot a lot of 3s

I said "arguably". There are guys more dominant and more clutch than LeBron but its hard to find players with all the skills he possesses.

[ShadyOne]

I said "arguably". There are guys more dominant and more clutch than LeBron but its hard to find players with all the skills he possesses.

I guess it depends what you define as talent. When I think talent, I think actual skills. Like shooting, handling, moves, etc..

Lebron is more a physical attributes guy, with that mental/IQ aspect as well. I’m not saying it as a negative at all. Like, I’d consider current guys like Jokic, Embiid, Luka, KD, as more talented. Not better, though, if that makes sense. Where as Giannis is another of the “physical attribute” guys, that’s also at worst “on par” with Lebron in that aspect.