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  1. #31
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    That guy beating that horse is fricken hilarious, still my favorite.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by mightybosstone View Post
    I'm not going to go through and find links to all of these things. They exist, and you can Google them:

    - The Red Sox and Yankees cheating in 2017.
    - The Red Sox getting busted in 2018.
    - Alex Cora's blatant reference in that press conference to the Yankees cheating in 2018 based on their acquisition of Beltran. I believe he used the phrase "We need to clean up our details."
    - The report that said Astros officials have evidence of like 7-8 other teams in baseball who are likely using technology to steal signs.
    - Reports that the Yankees used illegal video to cheat in years prior to 2017.
    - The fact that Carlos Beltran has played or consulted for other franchises (primarily the Yankees and Rangers).
    - Multiple former players coming forward to say their teams cheated or they know that teams used video to steal signs more than a decade before the Astros scandal.


    And yet apparently that's enough to condemn them for hypothetical buzzers everyone is claiming they used in 2019.


    Yes, because it's already out there. Everyone knows about it, and there was a thorough investigation into it where players and personnel all had to be honest. If MLB did a thorough investigation into every ball club, I don't know that they'd find the level of cheating that they found in Houston. But I guarantee other teams are breaking the rules.



    It's really easy to publicly bash others when the spotlight is solely focused on them and no one is investigating you. Are all the players who publicly called out the Astros guilty of cheating at any point in their careers? I have no idea. Maybe. Maybe not. But I'm willing to bet they're not all innocent. Clearly these guys have never heard the phrase "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." There are apparently a lot of choir buys playing MLB in 2020.

    And before you say "Why would someone who's guilty publicly criticize others who are guilty," I'd ask you to look at Astros players and personnel. In the last few years, they accused other teams of cheating. Verlander has accused MLB of juicing baseballs and has been as vocal as anyone about the possibility of cheating in the past. So, do I think cheaters would publicly criticize other cheaters? I absolutely do, because I've literally witnessed it first-hand.
    There is nothing that you will hear or see that will change your opinion that the Astros have been unfairly singled out in this situation, and at the end of the day, they are just victims of some effort to target them, and only them for something that is widespread throughout the sport. You're willing to side with admitted cheaters and liars and blindly assume all of their successes are pure and organic. At the same time, the rest of the world is wrong, players, coaches, fans, sportswriters, even other Astros fans. Maybe MLB will come out and eventually release an apology for how badly the Astros have been treated in this. I wouldn't hold your breath for that day though, Chief.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonofdad View Post
    There is nothing that you will hear or see that will change your opinion that the Astros have been unfairly singled out in this situation, and at the end of the day, they are just victims of some effort to target them, and only them for something that is widespread throughout the sport. You're willing to side with admitted cheaters and liars and blindly assume all of their successes are pure and organic. At the same time, the rest of the world is wrong, players, coaches, fans, sportswriters, even other Astros fans. Maybe MLB will come out and eventually release an apology for how badly the Astros have been treated in this. I wouldn't hold your breath for that day though, Chief.
    I too, cannot believe that the astros are being treated like this. Clearly every team was using center field cameras, banging trash cans, smoke signals, whistling, buzzers and midgets. I don't know why the astros are the only team being treated like this but it's time to stop. Altuve's already short and has a bad tattoo so leave him alone. Obviously all of the crazy false allegations that the commissioner has said are true are completely without merit. When will the world see?

  4. #34
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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bmu15 View Post
    I too, cannot believe that the astros are being treated like this. Clearly every team was using center field cameras, banging trash cans, smoke signals, whistling, buzzers and midgets. I don't know why the astros are the only team being treated like this but it's time to stop. Altuve's already short and has a bad tattoo so leave him alone. Obviously all of the crazy false allegations that the commissioner has said are true are completely without merit. When will the world see?
    Not to mention my man LeBron went in on y'all and I don't blame LBJ for going off on the Astros hell I already want to especially since LeBron is right in everything he said

    Aaron Judge said y'all didn't earn it so it holds no value

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonofdad View Post
    There is nothing that you will hear or see that will change your opinion that the Astros have been unfairly singled out in this situation, and at the end of the day, they are just victims of some effort to target them, and only them for something that is widespread throughout the sport.
    Nope. Putting words in my mouth again (you love doing that, btw). They were not unfairly targeted, nor are they victims. They deserved to be investigated, and they deserved to be punished, and they should feel crappy about the whole thing as should their fans (as I can assure you we do).

    That doesn't mean, though, that other teams don't still deserve some kind of investigation of their own. I'm not frustrated by the Astros punishment or even the public's skepticism of their success. I'm frustrated by the lack of accountability by baseball to address this issue on a broader scale and to look at the other 29 clubhouses with even one-tenth the level of the investigation they gave the Astros.

    They cheated. They were punished. They are criticized. And they deserve all of it. But the investigation should not stop there, and the fact that it has when there's plenty of evidence out there to suggest the problem goes far deeper than one team is what I can't get over.

    You're willing to side with admitted cheaters and liars and blindly assume all of their successes are pure and organic.
    All of their successes? No. The vast majority of them? Yes. And there's plenty of evidence out there to suggest they were a good baseball team with good players regardless of any sign stealing they benefited from. Here's a good article from back in November that backs this up:
    https://www.theringer.com/mlb/2019/1...wins-advantage

    At the same time, the rest of the world is wrong, players, coaches, fans, sportswriters, even other Astros fans. Maybe MLB will come out and eventually release an apology for how badly the Astros have been treated in this. I wouldn't hold your breath for that day though, Chief.
    It's crazy how much of your replies to my comments are all straw man arguments. You take my own opinions, twist them to the point where you can easily pick apart opinions I don't actually hold and then proceed to belittle me based on things I've never said or thought. Are you a lawyer, by any chance?


  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by mightybosstone View Post
    Nope. Putting words in my mouth again (you love doing that, btw). They were not unfairly targeted, nor are they victims. They deserved to be investigated, and they deserved to be punished, and they should feel crappy about the whole thing as should their fans (as I can assure you we do).

    That doesn't mean, though, that other teams don't still deserve some kind of investigation of their own. I'm not frustrated by the Astros punishment or even the public's skepticism of their success. I'm frustrated by the lack of accountability by baseball to address this issue on a broader scale and to look at the other 29 clubhouses with even one-tenth the level of the investigation they gave the Astros.

    They cheated. They were punished. They are criticized. And they deserve all of it. But the investigation should not stop there, and the fact that it has when there's plenty of evidence out there to suggest the problem goes far deeper than one team is what I can't get over.


    All of their successes? No. The vast majority of them? Yes. And there's plenty of evidence out there to suggest they were a good baseball team with good players regardless of any sign stealing they benefited from. Here's a good article from back in November that backs this up:
    https://www.theringer.com/mlb/2019/1...wins-advantage


    It's crazy how much of your replies to my comments are all straw man arguments. You take my own opinions, twist them to the point where you can easily pick apart opinions I don't actually hold and then proceed to belittle me based on things I've never said or thought. Are you a lawyer, by any chance?
    It seems like you think that every team was cheating to the extreme of the astros. I personally don't think there are any other teams that used technology the way the astros did. That's just me. Yes every team steals signs when it comes to baserunner on second type of stuff. Not some non baseball player in slacks sitting by the hallway relaying what type of pitch is coming from your own personal center field camera. Huge difference between the two. astros fans don't have to like it but it may just be the reality of it. You probably wouldn't be happy if they did investigate every team and found nothing to the extent of the astros. What would you say then, or would they be lying?

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bmu15 View Post
    It seems like you think that every team was cheating to the extreme of the astros.
    Nope. I don't think that at all, actually. Here's another great straw man argument.

    I personally don't think there are any other teams that used technology the way the astros did. That's just me. Yes every team steals signs when it comes to baserunner on second type of stuff. Not some non baseball player in slacks sitting by the hallway relaying what type of pitch is coming from your own personal center field camera.
    https://nypost.com/2020/01/17/tony-l...jack-mcdowell/

    Huge difference between the two. astros fans don't have to like it but it may just be the reality of it. You probably wouldn't be happy if they did investigate every team and found nothing to the extent of the astros. What would you say then, or would they be lying?
    If baseball was as thorough with Houston as they were with every other team and clubhouse, sure, maybe I'd feel differently about this situation in terms of my skepticism of the other 29 teams and the guilt of the Astros. But it's a moot point, because those investigations will never happen. MLB doesn't want them to take place, because if there was an investigation and they found half a dozen teams or more were doing this, it makes them look like the whole sport is corrupt and they've managed the whole thing incompetently (which they absolutely have). They have their scapegoat in the Astros, they can act like they dealt with the problem by brushing it under the rug and save face.

    And I'm not necessarily saying that the Astros didn't take this a step further than most teams. I have no doubt that, while the majority of teams have probably used some kind of questionable sign stealing tactics over the years, the Astros took this further than most. But I also find it extremely hard to believe they're the first team in the history of baseball to steal signs with video equipment and relay information to hitters.

    What they were doing was incredibly obvious. You can't watch those videos now and not hear the bangs, and pitchers have been quoted as saying they knew what was happening. If that's the case, why did no one say anything outside of the Astros organization? Probably because they know this stuff has happened and was happening, possibly even to some degree in their own clubhouses.


  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tg11 View Post
    Not to mention my man LeBron went in on y'all and I don't blame LBJ for going off on the Astros hell I already want to especially since LeBron is right in everything he said

    Aaron Judge said y'all didn't earn it so it holds no value
    I love Lebron's game and will always root for the guy, but I lost all respect for the man's opinion on issues outside of basketball after he refused to stand up for Morey and tucked his tail between his legs on China. The man is as vocal as the opinion could impact his bottom line. It's fine to comment about stealing signs in baseball, but apparently commenting about political corruption, tyranny and genocide in another country is totally off limits.


  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bmu15 View Post
    It seems like you think that every team was cheating to the extreme of the astros. I personally don't think there are any other teams that used technology the way the astros did. That's just me. Yes every team steals signs when it comes to baserunner on second type of stuff. Not some non baseball player in slacks sitting by the hallway relaying what type of pitch is coming from your own personal center field camera. Huge difference between the two. astros fans don't have to like it but it may just be the reality of it. You probably wouldn't be happy if they did investigate every team and found nothing to the extent of the astros. What would you say then, or would they be lying?
    They had an intern who invented an algorithm that broke down a pitcher’s signs and relayed them to the dugout - that is cutting edge.

    Anyone suggesting that everyone was cheating to the same level as the Astros this is out of their minds.

    No other team has suggested another team did any of the following...

    (A) Using a “code breaker” algorithm
    (B) Using a live camera and monitor feed in the dugout to decode signs in real time during the game
    (C) Using a system of sounds - and, allegedly, electronic devices - to relay the pitches to batters FROM THE DUGOUT — IN REAL TIME — regardless of the situation.

    Correa’s BS about “not cheating” in the World Series is beyond ridiculous. “It’s too important, everyone is changing signs every pitch” - Not if no one is on base! The only pitcher who said he changed signs on every pitch regardless of situation was Alex Wood and he dominated the Astros in Houston - go figure. Hell, there’s video evidence of whistling in the 2017 World Series that correlate to the coming pitches; “charge” whistle for a fastball, standard whistle for offspeed.

    Altuve and Reddick didn’t cheat? GTFOH.

    At best, this might be a half-truth - Altuve and Reddick (Reddick especially) had career years in 2017. Additionally, and at minimum, they undoubtedly reaped the benefits of having more guys on base when they were hitting, and guys who knew what was coming when they got on themselves.

    Given his really weird “shirt change” incident, I’m assuming that Altuve’s cheating has been off and on, and largely on during high stakes games and including playoffs with - one can safely assume as the Astros do not get benefit of the doubt - buzzers.

    #tainted
    #somuchremorse
    #jackoffemoji

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by mightybosstone View Post
    I love Lebron's game and will always root for the guy, but I lost all respect for the man's opinion on issues outside of basketball after he refused to stand up for Morey and tucked his tail between his legs on China. The man is as vocal as the opinion could impact his bottom line. It's fine to comment about stealing signs in baseball, but apparently commenting about political corruption, tyranny and genocide in another country is totally off limits.
    *cough-cough* straw man *cough*
    *cough* poisoning the well *cough*

    Two logical fallacies in one post?

    Who cares if you lost respect for him? I didn’t like it either and he deserves criticism for it...

    But that has nothing to do with this, and on this, he’s right.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by mightybosstone View Post
    If baseball was as thorough with Houston as they were with every other team and clubhouse, sure, maybe I'd feel differently about this situation in terms of my skepticism of the other 29 teams and the guilt of the Astros. But it's a moot point...


    The logical fallacies abound with you...

    I’m sure you feel super justified in supporting your team as the prime living example of the Dunning-Krueger effect, but no...

    Let’s see if we can apply this concept to an example... Quoted above is the similar to saying; “sure, OJ brutally murdered people, but until they investigate Ron Goldman and Nicole Brown as thoroughly as they’re investigating him for murders they don’t yet stand accused of, then I just don’t see how you can single him out”

    Great logic. Well played, H-town.

  13. #43
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    Sure, knowing what pitch is coming doesn’t help at all

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/brobibl...s-kershaw/amp/

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by mightybosstone View Post
    Aww.... Your trolling attempts are adorable. You're the PSD trolling equivalent of a chihuahua. Continue barking, but I'm still not going to get angry or take you seriously.
    Bang on description right here.




    "there's no scraps in my scrapbook"

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bmu15 View Post
    It's kinda funny that the 2017 world series trophy is only valid in houston. To the rest of the world it might as well be made of popsicle sticks. Until they cheated I had no idea Manfred was from houston. It certainly explains the generosity.
    Manfred is from New York actually but don't let that get in the way of your charming little "poor, poor Dodgers" approach to this topic.

    "there's no scraps in my scrapbook"

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