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  1. #121
    Join Date
    May 2007
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    51,018
    I do see the disconnect here though. You're comparing the '20 team to the '17 team, whereas I'm just talking in general about their dropoff this year.

    PSD: where the moderators consistently cave to crybaby tattletales and it's a lot safer to be openly racist, hateful, and ignorant than to be a little rude to the racist, hateful, and ignorant

  2. #122
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    5,678
    I preempted ďonly player to miss significant timeĒ by stating this...

    ďHere are the OPSís and games played for the six ďstarĒ players from the 2017 teamď

    Again, you brought up pitching. All of my arguments refer to the offense of the carryover players from 2017 to now.

    You can call me butthurt all you want, I donít care lol. That part is true, otherwise I wouldnít be in here...

    But I came into a forum where the last thing written was about this very debate, for the very purpose of following up on this very debate with the benefit of hindsight. Thatís not trolling, thatís absolutely relevant to the topic and to the Astros.

    What did you come in here for?
    "There is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world. To me, it underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly with one another, and to preserve and cherish the pale blue dot, the only home we've ever known.Ē

    - Carl Sagan


  3. #123
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    51,018
    Again, we're basically having two separate conversations here. You're comparing the '17 Astros team to the '20 team and I'm talking about the Astros drop-off this year in general.

    You can frame it any way you want but the reason both you and every other Dodger fan came in here originally was to gang up on and troll the one active Astros poster on this site. Last night you came in to do the same and since this entire Astros forum is a ghost town, I figured I'd do you a solid and give you the attention you were craving. We both have some valid points (even though we're not on the same page) despite not really having a valid reason to be in this forum discussing this particular matter. The MLB forum aka neutral ground would be a more suitable place for such a conversation.

    Have a good one, Gibby. I know many of the most active Dodgers fans on this site see me as public enemy number one (and you're simply falling in line there because you've only really seen me in the middle of mindless exchanges with posters like ciaban) but I can honestly say, this conversation aside, I actually think you are a fairly intelligent and respectable poster....especially compared to your fellow PSD Dodger fans that I am more familiar with.

    PSD: where the moderators consistently cave to crybaby tattletales and it's a lot safer to be openly racist, hateful, and ignorant than to be a little rude to the racist, hateful, and ignorant

  4. #124
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    51,018
    One last thing: if you're really trying to have an honest conversation here, why would you be comparing the Astros offense in 2017 to 45 games in 2020? If you think 2017 was the only year they cheated, 2018 would be the better comparison. If you think they were cheating all the way through 2019, comparing that season to 2020 would be the better comparison.

    As is, it seems much more like you're cherry picking. Three years is a long time when it comes to the overall performance of a pro sports team.

    PSD: where the moderators consistently cave to crybaby tattletales and it's a lot safer to be openly racist, hateful, and ignorant than to be a little rude to the racist, hateful, and ignorant

  5. #125
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    5,678
    Quote Originally Posted by spliff(TONE) View Post
    One last thing: if you're really trying to have an honest conversation here, why would you be comparing the Astros offense in 2017 to 45 games in 2020? If you think 2017 was the only year they cheated, 2018 would be the better comparison. If you think they were cheating all the way through 2019, comparing that season to 2020 would be the better comparison.

    As is, it seems much more like you're cherry picking. Three years is a long time when it comes to the overall performance of a pro sports team.
    Firstly, Iím not cherry picking anything, all of the statistics are available (I typically use Baseball Reference and/or Fangraphs) to anyone who wants to make a counter argument. It doesnít matter what statistics I use, itís easy for you to say Iím ďcherry pickingĒ when youíre not providing a counter argument. There are so many statistics out there, you could literally say that about any stats one uses.

    Secondly, I used 2017 because I was responding to a comment about the 2017 team being competitive regardless of whether or not they were cheating. I used 2020 because this is the year we can be most certain they arenít cheating since they just got caught.

    Thirdly, itís funny you mention 2018, because the vast majority of their players had a tremendous drop that year as well after Cora took his scheme to Boston (incidentally, the team that won it all in 2018).

    In 2019, many around the league raised suspicions about the Astrosí cheating as they were actually performing better than they did in 2017 only to lose in the WS to a team that caught on and frequently changed their signs.

    And again, in 2020, their biggest names from the 2017 team are in the tank. Itís not cherry picking and itís not coincidence.

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