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  1. #586
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    Nasty's approach to being shown evidence that doesn't jive with his outlook on life and the world around him:


  2. #587
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    Quote Originally Posted by spliff(TONE) View Post
    Nasty's approach to being shown evidence that doesn't jive with his outlook on life and the world around him:

    Yeah, pretty much.
    "Ain't got the call no more. Got a lot of sinful idears Ė but they seem kinda sensible...."

  3. #588
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    Ha!

    Well, to be fair, atheism and science often, but not always, go hand in hand. They don't always have to. Many scientists are firm believers in the almighty. Krauss as you correctly point out is not. Similar to me, he was raised a non observant Jew and was Bar Mitzvahed. At this point, i don't think he even identifies as a Jew, unlike me.

    Regardless, a belief in God and the supernatural really have no role in science, And that's where Dr. Krauss, a theoretical physicist and a cosmologist, is coming from.

    As for you saying his ideas having no basis in reality, that's kind of ironic considering you, not he, is positing a supernatural solution to the first cause problem. And as I would hope you will be the first to admit, the supernatural can never be demonstrated in this reality. But to reiterate, Dr. Krauss is only presenting it as a possibility. He has no proof or demonstration behind it. Not even a theory. Just an untestable hypothesis at this point. But it is based on demonstrable science, as he explained.

    If you chose to listen. Which I'm not sure you did.
    Ok, my bad for saying he has no basis in reality. He does. And his idea is actually pretty impressive in regards to MATTER, not energy. If the first law was conservation of MATTER then yes, it would apply to what he is saying, but it is conservation of ENERGY. And so the equal and opposite MATTER and anti matter he talks about is arising from already existing ENERGY.

    That is to say, no his idea does not address the first law of thermodynamics in any way, shape, or form.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

  4. #589
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    Quote Originally Posted by spliff(TONE) View Post
    Nasty's approach to being shown evidence that doesn't jive with his outlook on life and the world around him:

    To be fair... I think most of us do that.

  5. #590
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    Can science study the supernatural? Or only the natural? By that I mean once an answer or theory is developed for something that was once unexplainable, does it become part of the natural world and therefore no longer supernatural?

  6. #591
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    Quote Originally Posted by The20thK View Post
    Can science study the supernatural? Or only the natural? By that I mean once an answer or theory is developed for something that was once unexplainable, does it become part of the natural world and therefore no longer supernatural?
    It depends on what you're calling the Supernatural. If you're calling the Supernatural the unexplainable, then you're only moving the goal posts. So many things are known to us now through science that were once inq the realm of the unknown that we attributed to an Almighty God: Thunder, rain, gravity, tides, sun up and down, etc.

    What I believe we are calling the Supernatural is that which does not occur in nature, i..e outside the natural realm. Science only can seek to find out what happens in the natural realm so science can never prove God if indeed God created the world. It's a never ending quest. There will always be more to learn.

    Scientists never say "God did it."

  7. #592
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    Ok, my bad for saying he has no basis in reality. He does. And his idea is actually pretty impressive in regards to MATTER, not energy. If the first law was conservation of MATTER then yes, it would apply to what he is saying, but it is conservation of ENERGY. And so the equal and opposite MATTER and anti matter he talks about is arising from already existing ENERGY.

    That is to say, no his idea does not address the first law of thermodynamics in any way, shape, or form.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    Ok. That's a common misperception. Thing is, energy can become matter and matter can become energy.

    I know, pretty wild stuff.
    Last edited by fanofclendennon; 04-10-2020 at 06:51 AM.

  8. #593
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    It depends on what you're calling the Supernatural. If you're calling the Supernatural the unexplainable, then you're only moving the goal posts. So many things are known to us now through science that were once inq the realm of the unknown that we attributed to an Almighty God: Thunder, rain, gravity, tides, sun up and down, etc.

    What I believe we are calling the Supernatural is that which does not occur in nature, i..e outside the natural realm. Science only can seek to find out what happens in the natural realm so science can never prove God if indeed God created the world. It's a never ending quest. There will always be more to learn.

    Scientists never say "God did it."
    So youíre saying that science doesnít seek to answer anything that isnít in the physical natural realm?

  9. #594
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    Quote Originally Posted by The20thK View Post
    So youíre saying that science doesnít seek to answer anything that isnít in the physical natural realm?
    EXACTLY!!!!!

    Science doesn't say there is no God. Science doesn't set out to prove whether or not there is a God. It takes an agnostic, apathetic approach to the question. It doesn't concern itself with God because it is limited to the Natural world.

    So if there is a God, science wouldn't be able to tell you about it.

    Now, if we do see things that would violate what we know about natural laws, like dead people speaking, people becoming invisible, the Mets winning a World Series, etc, science would take note of that too.

    But anything outside of the natural realm cannot be studied scientifically.

  10. #595
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    Quote Originally Posted by The20thK View Post
    So in the beginning time moved much faster than it does now? Thatís what youíre saying because isnít the distance between objects, and the rate at which theyíre currently moving, how measure time in the universe?

    If thatís true then time isnít a constant? And if thatís true, then how do we know the actual age?
    Great explanation of the speed of light speed limit problem. The speed of light is the speed limit for onjects traveling through space. There is no such speed limit for space itself, though, which is what (allegedly)!occurred at the early moments of the Big Bang as space itself expanded rapidly many times the speed of light.

    https://youtu.be/dr6nNvw55C4

  11. #596
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    Ok. That's a common misperception. Thing is, energy can become matter and matter can become energy.

    I know, pretty wild stuff.
    I know, this is my point, this is the reason the first law of thermodynamics does NOT apply to Krauss's idea at all. Because he is showing us a new form of energy arising from an already existing form. But he is trying to sell it as energy forming of its own volition, that way he can make more money.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

  12. #597
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    Quote Originally Posted by The20thK View Post
    Can science study the supernatural? Or only the natural? By that I mean once an answer or theory is developed for something that was once unexplainable, does it become part of the natural world and therefore no longer supernatural?
    Science can only study the natural. The only way to demonstrate something supernatural is to demonstrate its impossibility in the natural world.

    This is something that cannot be positively proven, only negatively

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

  13. #598
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    Quote Originally Posted by The20thK View Post
    To be fair... I think most of us do that.
    Some do it much more often and much more aggressively than others.

  14. #599
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    Science can only study the natural. The only way to demonstrate something supernatural is to demonstrate its impossibility in the natural world.

    This is something that cannot be positively proven, only negatively

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    It's going to take me a few minutes to unpack this.

    The only way to demonstrate something supernatural is to demonstrate its impossibility in the natural world
    Ok, you need to rewrite this. As written it makes no sense. As written, you're saying that anything that can be demonstrated as impossible in the natural world is a demonstration of the supernatural.

    Yeah, that so doesn't work.
    "Ain't got the call no more. Got a lot of sinful idears Ė but they seem kinda sensible...."

  15. #600
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    It's going to take me a few minutes to unpack this.



    Ok, you need to rewrite this. As written it makes no sense. As written, you're saying that anything that can be demonstrated as impossible in the natural world is a demonstration of the supernatural.

    Yeah, that so doesn't work.
    I said the only way to demonstrate the supernatural is by demonstrating it as the only possible answer. That is, to eliminate any natural possibility.

    This is the only way to demonstrate something supernatural.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

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