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  1. #2416
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oefarmy2005 View Post
    I would still trade him for Derozan, if that was on the table. I was speaking, IF he has a breakout season. Before this "breakout season", I'd ship him for about anything more than a bag of peanuts.
    but DeRozan hurts us even more long term. He would add roughly 10 wins, putting us into a lower seed, we get killed (ever see his playoff numbers?), rinse, cycle, repeat. I suppose we are in that spot now, I just fear the Wolves would try and sell us on 2 all stars being paired together like that would mean anything in this scenario.

    I am with you on Wiggins, to a degree. I HATE watching him play, it has seriously made me just stop watching large chunks of the Wolves all together, but we also don't want to compound the problem, or make it worse.

    If Wiggins has a breakout season, his value skyrockets. We then trade him immediately.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  2. #2417
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    but DeRozan hurts us even more long term. He would add roughly 10 wins, putting us into a lower seed, we get killed (ever see his playoff numbers?), rinse, cycle, repeat. I suppose we are in that spot now, I just fear the Wolves would try and sell us on 2 all stars being paired together like that would mean anything in this scenario.

    I am with you on Wiggins, to a degree. I HATE watching him play, it has seriously made me just stop watching large chunks of the Wolves all together, but we also don't want to compound the problem, or make it worse.

    If Wiggins has a breakout season, his value skyrockets. We then trade him immediately.
    You are way overrating Derozan. He doesn't move the needle at all - meaning, we win roughly the same amount of games. 2-3 more maybe, and it's a big maybe.


    PSD Grammar Lesson #1:

    a) their - stands for "belonging to them"
    b) there - means "over there" as in location
    c) they're - short for "they are"

  3. #2418
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oefarmy2005 View Post
    You are way overrating Derozan. He doesn't move the needle at all - meaning, we win roughly the same amount of games. 2-3 more maybe, and it's a big maybe.
    oh I think he adds 10 wins, but that comes with some relative health with the rest of the roster too. But you are correct, in that he isn't a needle mover at all.

    I imagine we are VERY aggressive chasing Russell at the trade deadline, when Klay is easing back and Russell is eligible to be traded. GS simply signed him so they gained an asset, nothing more. He doesn't fit, at all, in their backcourt. It makes no sense to trade for a 30+ year old (Westbrook/DeRozan shortly), and Rosas knows it. Russell may not be elite, but he was really good last year offensively, and will likely get a lil better, and his age coincides with Towns, Culver, etc.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  4. #2419
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    oh I think he adds 10 wins, but that comes with some relative health with the rest of the roster too. But you are correct, in that he isn't a needle mover at all.

    I imagine we are VERY aggressive chasing Russell at the trade deadline, when Klay is easing back and Russell is eligible to be traded. GS simply signed him so they gained an asset, nothing more. He doesn't fit, at all, in their backcourt. It makes no sense to trade for a 30+ year old (Westbrook/DeRozan shortly), and Rosas knows it. Russell may not be elite, but he was really good last year offensively, and will likely get a lil better, and his age coincides with Towns, Culver, etc.
    I think I am done putting any hope on something going right for the Wolves. I feel like 1)Most likely GS will play out the whole year with Curry/Russell 2) Even if they trade Russell it will be for a star level player in the right age group. I think someone like Blake Griffin would be a really nice fit if it's a one-for-one star swap. Otherwise, I also like Russell for Gallinary for them.


    PSD Grammar Lesson #1:

    a) their - stands for "belonging to them"
    b) there - means "over there" as in location
    c) they're - short for "they are"

  5. #2420
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oefarmy2005 View Post
    I think I am done putting any hope on something going right for the Wolves. I feel like 1)Most likely GS will play out the whole year with Curry/Russell 2) Even if they trade Russell it will be for a star level player in the right age group. I think someone like Blake Griffin would be a really nice fit if it's a one-for-one star swap. Otherwise, I also like Russell for Gallinary for them.
    well, GS, if Klay becomes healthy, will need a wing defender badly if they are to contend. We have one we can give them...

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  6. #2421
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    well, GS, if Klay becomes healthy, will need a wing defender badly if they are to contend. We have one we can give them...
    The point of the Derozen swap isn't for Derozen per say. It is in order to get us out from under wiggins contract ASAP. DeRozen has 2 more years remaining compared to Wiggins 4. He would be a nice expiring next year to trade off for a player of Russel or anothers caliber.

    If we are going to trade for DeAngelo I'd prefer not to give up Roco. I'd rather give up Okogie because Roco makes it a pretty decent core for us. In all honesty the reason we do the swap mid season is we have a shot at a better long term and possible playoff run this year.

    Maybe Okogie, Teague and a protected first with some salary filler?

  7. #2422
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twolves88 View Post
    The point of the Derozen swap isn't for Derozen per say. It is in order to get us out from under wiggins contract ASAP. DeRozen has 2 more years remaining compared to Wiggins 4. He would be a nice expiring next year to trade off for a player of Russel or anothers caliber.

    If we are going to trade for DeAngelo I'd prefer not to give up Roco. I'd rather give up Okogie because Roco makes it a pretty decent core for us. In all honesty the reason we do the swap mid season is we have a shot at a better long term and possible playoff run this year.

    Maybe Okogie, Teague and a protected first with some salary filler?
    But to me, getting out of Wiggins deal would be great, but not for a lateral type move, which is what a trade for a DeRozan type would be. Just puts us in a different problem area. But, I do get your reasoning, in that it allows us to clear space quicker. To me, we need a needle moving move, not a lateral move that is pure damage control.


    in a trade for Russell, who do you think GS wants? Okogie, a 2nd year fringe starter who needs to develop, or RoCo, a seasoned wing defender who doesn't need to be part of the offense? We have to think about trades from the other side too, and GS will have zero need for a developing young guy, and salary relief that only brings them down to being WAY over the cap, instead of laughably over the cap. RoCo + Teague probably gets it done though. They do need some cap relief to be able to fill out the roster.


    As far as RoCo, we have to believe Culver is his replacement for 2 reasons. 1-RoCo is our most valuable trade asset, and WILL be shipped out if need be. 2-Culver is said to be an elite defender potentially, but with better offense. RoCo will get paid big time after the 20-21' season, if not before, and we don't need to pay a guy who should be Bruce Bowen $17-20 million a year, which is what he will be seeking.
    Last edited by Hawkeye15; 07-20-2019 at 03:12 PM.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  8. #2423
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    But to me, getting out of Wiggins deal would be great, but not for a lateral type move, which is what a trade for a DeRozan type would be. Just puts us in a different problem area. But, I do get your reasoning, in that it allows us to clear space quicker. To me, we need a needle moving move, not a lateral move that is pure damage control.


    in a trade for Russell, who do you think GS wants? Okogie, a 2nd year fringe starter who needs to develop, or RoCo, a seasoned wing defender who doesn't need to be part of the offense? We have to think about trades from the other side too, and GS will have zero need for a developing young guy, and salary relief that only brings them down to being WAY over the cap, instead of laughably over the cap. RoCo + Teague probably gets it done though. They do need some cap relief to be able to fill out the roster.


    As far as RoCo, we have to believe Culver is his replacement for 2 reasons. 1-RoCo is our most valuable trade asset, and WILL be shipped out if need be. 2-Culver is said to be an elite defender potentially, but with better offense. RoCo will get paid big time after the 20-21' season, if not before, and we don't need to pay a guy who should be Bruce Bowen $17-20 million a year, which is what he will be seeking.

    I'm not saying I entirely disagree with your points. However, it comes down to either your going to have faith in Wiggins or your not. DeRozen might not move the needle but who cares if this season is lost anyways? He becomes a much better trade chip down the road then Wiggins contract ever will be. Let's say Wiggins returns to his rookie form. His defense remains aweful do you really think we will get better value back? Every NBA team knows hes been a career underperformer with a larger contract that wasn't deserved. DeRozen allows us to have a nice trade chip in a year that can be moved for a star player or move up to offer more to free agents.

    The point isn't to go from bottom dweller to NBA contender in a season. The point is to setup future trades by getting better assets then we currently have. Maybe at the deadline someone really wants to have DeRozen because he has a huge year with us. I would bet money on DeRozen being able to snag a better short term haul then Wiggins.

  9. #2424
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twolves88 View Post
    I'm not saying I entirely disagree with your points. However, it comes down to either your going to have faith in Wiggins or your not. DeRozen might not move the needle but who cares if this season is lost anyways? He becomes a much better trade chip down the road then Wiggins contract ever will be. Let's say Wiggins returns to his rookie form. His defense remains aweful do you really think we will get better value back? Every NBA team knows hes been a career underperformer with a larger contract that wasn't deserved. DeRozen allows us to have a nice trade chip in a year that can be moved for a star player or move up to offer more to free agents.

    The point isn't to go from bottom dweller to NBA contender in a season. The point is to setup future trades by getting better assets then we currently have. Maybe at the deadline someone really wants to have DeRozen because he has a huge year with us. I would bet money on DeRozen being able to snag a better short term haul then Wiggins.
    This. We don't have the luxury of waiting to see if wiggins gets better before a trade (spoiler, he won't) so we need to grab what we can. Frozen shows the ability to play consistently. His trade value would be higher because a) he could help a team and b) his contract is only two years. One year of him, to me, is worth getting rid of Wiggins. And, most likely, the best we can do.
    the greatest inequality is the equal treatment of unequal people.

  10. #2425
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twolves88 View Post
    I'm not saying I entirely disagree with your points. However, it comes down to either your going to have faith in Wiggins or your not. DeRozen might not move the needle but who cares if this season is lost anyways? He becomes a much better trade chip down the road then Wiggins contract ever will be. Let's say Wiggins returns to his rookie form. His defense remains aweful do you really think we will get better value back? Every NBA team knows hes been a career underperformer with a larger contract that wasn't deserved. DeRozen allows us to have a nice trade chip in a year that can be moved for a star player or move up to offer more to free agents.

    The point isn't to go from bottom dweller to NBA contender in a season. The point is to setup future trades by getting better assets then we currently have. Maybe at the deadline someone really wants to have DeRozen because he has a huge year with us. I would bet money on DeRozen being able to snag a better short term haul then Wiggins.
    I have no faith in Wiggins, and I have even less faith that trading for a borderline all star player on the back 9 of their career will do less damage, instead, I fear it will do more because if an established player comes in, they take some of what we need KAT to become away from him yet another 1-2 years. We are not contending, may as well let KAT become what he will become, and keep plugging away at the phones to see if someone will trade us younger talent to match KAT's timeline of prime/peak.

    As far as setting ourselves up for better assets, yea dude, I agree with you. And you even said DeRozan himself isn't what you are trying to get at, so I do agree with your overall point, but not this specific trade. It's also why I wanted zero part of Westbrook for example. We should be targeting players who are either all stars, or on their way, and under the age of 25ish in trades (for our splash move(s)).

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  11. #2426
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpagemn View Post
    This. We don't have the luxury of waiting to see if wiggins gets better before a trade (spoiler, he won't) so we need to grab what we can. Frozen shows the ability to play consistently. His trade value would be higher because a) he could help a team and b) his contract is only two years. One year of him, to me, is worth getting rid of Wiggins. And, most likely, the best we can do.
    waiting on Wiggins isn't the point, we all know he is a useless pile of overpaid ****. It's that we don't want to make a move that simply puts a bandaid on an already terrible situation. Trading for a borderline all star in their 29-35 age range years, does nothing. In fact it hurts us more I think, because while TODAY DeRozan holds more value in a trade, he won't in 2 years likely, and as I have stated, I think KAT needs to be given the reigns. Trust me guys, some GM(s) out there still see Wiggins age/size/athleticism, and someone will bite and give us a trade that doesn't have us sending out more assets. But I just don't think it's wise to make a lateral move that may very well be more damaging down the line.

    Look, you all know I despise Wiggins, to the point that I started not watching this team. I want him gone so bad. But I also just got a slap in the face with the Butler ****, you have to be more strategic when upgrading a team.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  12. #2427
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    oh I think he adds 10 wins, but that comes with some relative health with the rest of the roster too. But you are correct, in that he isn't a needle mover at all.

    I imagine we are VERY aggressive chasing Russell at the trade deadline, when Klay is easing back and Russell is eligible to be traded. GS simply signed him so they gained an asset, nothing more. He doesn't fit, at all, in their backcourt. It makes no sense to trade for a 30+ year old (Westbrook/DeRozan shortly), and Rosas knows it. Russell may not be elite, but he was really good last year offensively, and will likely get a lil better, and his age coincides with Towns, Culver, etc.
    Edit: Thought you meant Westbrook. Disregard.
    Last edited by Wisdom Listens; 07-22-2019 at 04:39 PM.

  13. #2428
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    waiting on Wiggins isn't the point, we all know he is a useless pile of overpaid ****. It's that we don't want to make a move that simply puts a bandaid on an already terrible situation. Trading for a borderline all star in their 29-35 age range years, does nothing. In fact it hurts us more I think, because while TODAY DeRozan holds more value in a trade, he won't in 2 years likely, and as I have stated, I think KAT needs to be given the reigns. Trust me guys, some GM(s) out there still see Wiggins age/size/athleticism, and someone will bite and give us a trade that doesn't have us sending out more assets. But I just don't think it's wise to make a lateral move that may very well be more damaging down the line.

    Look, you all know I despise Wiggins, to the point that I started not watching this team. I want him gone so bad. But I also just got a slap in the face with the Butler ****, you have to be more strategic when upgrading a team.
    New regime means new hope, so let's hope they make the right moves. So far I am impressed with the restraint as indecision can sometimes be the best decision.

  14. #2429
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpagemn View Post
    This. We don't have the luxury of waiting to see if wiggins gets better before a trade (spoiler, he won't) so we need to grab what we can. Frozen shows the ability to play consistently. His trade value would be higher because a) he could help a team and b) his contract is only two years. One year of him, to me, is worth getting rid of Wiggins. And, most likely, the best we can do.
    We'll need to offer something else of value other than Wiggins, which is the only reason we should not move him right now. The less time on his contract coupled with the fact he has nowhere to go but up makes the decision obvious. Yeah our FO was looking to move him but probably did not find any offers worth taking. Trading Wiggins is a mistake unless some team way overvalues him. In that case a deal would've already been done.

  15. #2430
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wisdom Listens View Post
    New regime means new hope, so let's hope they make the right moves. So far I am impressed with the restraint as indecision can sometimes be the best decision.
    well, tis the time of the year where optimism runs high...and then my pessimistic *** will chime in once Wiggins is eating up 34 mpg and leading us in shot attempts 20 games in. But, like you said, a new regime is here, and honestly making decisions, so far, I like. Even hiring a recovery/rest doctor, and some guys who are developmental coaches, is such a drastic view change from prior. The biggest issue we have always faced, is we never develop anyone, and relied on a few guys to develop themselves. So annoying. The Spurs could turn Helen Keller into a 3-D rotation player, yet we can't develop anything.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

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