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  1. #2821
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    May 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burrzy View Post
    You have summed that up perfect. The only thing I am saddened about is that this upcoming draft was hyped up so much and I just don't see it. I don't see a Ja Morant/ John Wall/Chris Paul type PG where it is a can't miss player. I like Evan Mobley but I don't know how great of a fit that would be. Overall I am just very disappointed this season.
    I am not sure about a can't miss player but the draft was supposed to have a few higher potential talents in it. Cade Cunningham/Jalen Suggs are guys I would add in that top tier with Mobley (both can be PG too). Along with that as something a bit different, two of the projected players around the top 5 in Green/Kuminga are doing the G-league route so we haven't really gotten to see them in action.

    I am disappointed in the season as well but I feel a bit differently about the draft. I am not sure they match the pre draft hype of a Wall but I think a couple will be capable/have a decent chance of being better players long term in the NBA than he has. It will be a while before we can see, hopefully we get a top 3 pick and aren't stuck with little options for improvement come the offseason/give up a top 5ish pick to Warriors.

  2. #2822
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    Nov 2020
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    34
    This post is going to be formatted like ****, sorry.

    Random thought that I've been thinking today....instead of having Russell and KAT would you rather have a combination of non-max salary players below that equaled their $58,079,250 a year? This is a hypothetical, I sorted by this year's salary(I took out some obvious players who were on rookie deals or extensions that probably don't fit this exercise but left some of those in if I thought they could be traded for). There are probably some salary cap nuances that would make this difficult but again just hypothetical.

    Here is the pool of players I came up with that you could pick from to add to the current roster(minus KAT and Russell):

    Harrison Barnes SAC $22,215,909
    Fred VanVleet TOR $21,250,000
    Victor Oladipo HOU $21,000,000
    Malcolm BrogdonIND $20,700,000
    Danilo Gallinari ATL $19,500,000
    Zach LaVine CHI $19,500,000
    Gary Harris DEN $19,160,714
    Jerami Grant DET $19,047,619
    Tim Hardaway Jr.DAL $18,975,000
    Terry Rozier CHO $18,900,000
    Julius Randle NYK $18,900,000
    Aaron Gordon ORL $18,136,364
    Myles Turner IND $18,000,000
    Bogdan BogdanovicATL$18,000,000
    Goran Dragic MIA $18,000,000
    Bojan BogdanovicUTA $17,850,000
    Gorgui Dieng MEM $17,287,640
    Domantas SabonisIND$17,187,500
    Ricky Rubio MIN $17,000,000
    Evan Fournier ORL $17,000,000
    Eric Bledsoe NOP $16,875,000
    Eric Gordon HOU $16,869,276
    Caris LeVert IND $16,203,704
    Joe Harris BRK $16,071,429
    James Johnson DAL $16,047,100
    Clint Capela ATL $16,000,000
    Dennis SchroederLAL $15,500,000
    Cody Zeller CHO $15,415,730
    Danny Green PHI $15,365,854
    Jonas ValanciunasMEM$15,000,000
    Andre Iguodala MIA $15,000,000
    Marcus Morris LAC $14,883,721
    Kelly Oubre Jr. GSW $14,375,000
    Dejounte MurraySAS $14,285,714
    Rudy Gay SAS $14,000,000
    Taurean Prince CLE $13,942,308
    Will Barton DEN $13,920,000
    Davis Bertans WAS $13,793,103
    Thaddeus Young CHI $13,545,000
    Terrence Ross ORL $13,500,000
    Marcus Smart BOS $13,446,428
    Patrick Beverley LAC $13,333,333
    Patty Mills SAS $13,285,714
    Christian Wood HOU $13,015,874
    J.J. Redick NOP $13,013,700
    Justise Winslow MEM $13,000,000
    Trevor Ariza OKC $12,800,000
    Brook Lopez MIL $12,697,675
    Dion Waiters MEM $12,650,000
    Cory Joseph SAC $12,600,000
    Markelle Fultz ORL $12,288,697
    Kelly Olynyk MIA $12,198,243
    Tony Snell ATL $12,178,571
    Robert CovingtonPOR $12,138,345
    Kentavious Caldwell-PopeLAL$12,073,020
    Jusuf Nurkic POR $12,000,000
    T.J. Warren IND $11,750,000
    Larry Nance Jr. CLE $11,709,091
    Jordan Clarkson UTA $11,500,000
    Spencer DinwiddieBRK$11,454,048
    Dillon Brooks MEM $11,400,000
    Lonzo Ball NOP $11,003,782
    Norman Powell TOR $10,865,952
    Joe Ingles UTA $10,863,637
    Josh Richardson DAL $10,800,000
    Jeremy Lamb IND $10,500,000
    DeAndre Jordan BRK $10,375,678
    Dwight Powell DAL $10,185,185
    Rodney Hood POR $10,047,450
    Tomas Satoranksy CHI $10,000,000
    Paul Millsap DEN $10,000,000
    Meyers Leonard MIA $9,756,098
    Al-Farouq AminuORL $9,720,900
    Dante Exum HOU $9,600,000
    George Hill OKC $9,590,602
    Kyle Anderson MEM $9,505,100
    Derrick Jones Jr. POR $9,268,293
    Jae Crowder PHO $9,258,000
    Derrick Favors UTA $9,258,000
    Montrezl Harrell LAL $9,258,000
    Tristan Thompson BOS $9,258,000
    Serge Ibaka LAC $9,258,000
    Delon Wright DET $9,000,000
    Marvin Bagley IIISAC $8,963,640
    Cedi Osman CLE $8,750,000
    Dario Saric PHO $8,333,333
    Thomas Bryant WAS $8,333,333
    Maxi Kleber DAL $8,250,000
    RJ Barrett NYK $8,231,760
    Jakob Poeltl SAS $8,101,852
    Royce O'Neale UTA $8,035,714
    Mason Plumlee DET $8,000,000
    Lou Williams LAC $8,000,000
    P.J. Tucker HOU $7,969,537
    Tyus Jones MEM $7,965,100
    Seth Curry PHI $7,813,953
    De'Anthony MeltonMEM$7,812,500
    Derrick Rose DET $7,682,927
    Cristiano Felicio CHI $7,529,020
    Rajon Rondo ATL $7,500,000
    Jonathan Isaac ORL $7,362,566
    Doug McDermottIND $7,333,333
    Robin Lopez WAS $7,300,000
    JaMychal Green DEN $7,199,760
    Nemanja Bjelica SAC $7,150,000
    Ivica Zubac LAC $7,000,000
    Darius Miller OKC $7,000,000
    Aron Baynes TOR $6,975,610
    Lauri MarkkanenCHI $6,731,508
    D.J. Augustin MIL $6,666,667
    Jabari Parker SAC $6,500,000
    Chris Boucher TOR $6,490,385

  3. #2823
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
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    710
    Quote Originally Posted by MadCowKG View Post
    This post is going to be formatted like ****, sorry.

    Random thought that I've been thinking today....instead of having Russell and KAT would you rather have a combination of non-max salary players below that equaled their $58,079,250 a year? This is a hypothetical, I sorted by this year's salary(I took out some obvious players who were on rookie deals or extensions that probably don't fit this exercise but left some of those in if I thought they could be traded for). There are probably some salary cap nuances that would make this difficult but again just hypothetical.

    Here is the pool of players I came up with that you could pick from to add to the current roster(minus KAT and Russell):

    Harrison Barnes SAC $22,215,909
    Fred VanVleet TOR $21,250,000
    Victor Oladipo HOU $21,000,000
    Malcolm BrogdonIND $20,700,000
    Danilo Gallinari ATL $19,500,000
    Zach LaVine CHI $19,500,000
    Gary Harris DEN $19,160,714
    Jerami Grant DET $19,047,619
    Tim Hardaway Jr.DAL $18,975,000
    Terry Rozier CHO $18,900,000
    Julius Randle NYK $18,900,000
    Aaron Gordon ORL $18,136,364
    Myles Turner IND $18,000,000
    Bogdan BogdanovicATL$18,000,000
    Goran Dragic MIA $18,000,000
    Bojan BogdanovicUTA $17,850,000
    Gorgui Dieng MEM $17,287,640
    Domantas SabonisIND$17,187,500
    Ricky Rubio MIN $17,000,000
    Evan Fournier ORL $17,000,000
    Eric Bledsoe NOP $16,875,000
    Eric Gordon HOU $16,869,276
    Caris LeVert IND $16,203,704
    Joe Harris BRK $16,071,429
    James Johnson DAL $16,047,100
    Clint Capela ATL $16,000,000
    Dennis SchroederLAL $15,500,000
    Cody Zeller CHO $15,415,730
    Danny Green PHI $15,365,854
    Jonas ValanciunasMEM$15,000,000
    Andre Iguodala MIA $15,000,000
    Marcus Morris LAC $14,883,721
    Kelly Oubre Jr. GSW $14,375,000
    Dejounte MurraySAS $14,285,714
    Rudy Gay SAS $14,000,000
    Taurean Prince CLE $13,942,308
    Will Barton DEN $13,920,000
    Davis Bertans WAS $13,793,103
    Thaddeus Young CHI $13,545,000
    Terrence Ross ORL $13,500,000
    Marcus Smart BOS $13,446,428
    Patrick Beverley LAC $13,333,333
    Patty Mills SAS $13,285,714
    Christian Wood HOU $13,015,874
    J.J. Redick NOP $13,013,700
    Justise Winslow MEM $13,000,000
    Trevor Ariza OKC $12,800,000
    Brook Lopez MIL $12,697,675
    Dion Waiters MEM $12,650,000
    Cory Joseph SAC $12,600,000
    Markelle Fultz ORL $12,288,697
    Kelly Olynyk MIA $12,198,243
    Tony Snell ATL $12,178,571
    Robert CovingtonPOR $12,138,345
    Kentavious Caldwell-PopeLAL$12,073,020
    Jusuf Nurkic POR $12,000,000
    T.J. Warren IND $11,750,000
    Larry Nance Jr. CLE $11,709,091
    Jordan Clarkson UTA $11,500,000
    Spencer DinwiddieBRK$11,454,048
    Dillon Brooks MEM $11,400,000
    Lonzo Ball NOP $11,003,782
    Norman Powell TOR $10,865,952
    Joe Ingles UTA $10,863,637
    Josh Richardson DAL $10,800,000
    Jeremy Lamb IND $10,500,000
    DeAndre Jordan BRK $10,375,678
    Dwight Powell DAL $10,185,185
    Rodney Hood POR $10,047,450
    Tomas Satoranksy CHI $10,000,000
    Paul Millsap DEN $10,000,000
    Meyers Leonard MIA $9,756,098
    Al-Farouq AminuORL $9,720,900
    Dante Exum HOU $9,600,000
    George Hill OKC $9,590,602
    Kyle Anderson MEM $9,505,100
    Derrick Jones Jr. POR $9,268,293
    Jae Crowder PHO $9,258,000
    Derrick Favors UTA $9,258,000
    Montrezl Harrell LAL $9,258,000
    Tristan Thompson BOS $9,258,000
    Serge Ibaka LAC $9,258,000
    Delon Wright DET $9,000,000
    Marvin Bagley IIISAC $8,963,640
    Cedi Osman CLE $8,750,000
    Dario Saric PHO $8,333,333
    Thomas Bryant WAS $8,333,333
    Maxi Kleber DAL $8,250,000
    RJ Barrett NYK $8,231,760
    Jakob Poeltl SAS $8,101,852
    Royce O'Neale UTA $8,035,714
    Mason Plumlee DET $8,000,000
    Lou Williams LAC $8,000,000
    P.J. Tucker HOU $7,969,537
    Tyus Jones MEM $7,965,100
    Seth Curry PHI $7,813,953
    De'Anthony MeltonMEM$7,812,500
    Derrick Rose DET $7,682,927
    Cristiano Felicio CHI $7,529,020
    Rajon Rondo ATL $7,500,000
    Jonathan Isaac ORL $7,362,566
    Doug McDermottIND $7,333,333
    Robin Lopez WAS $7,300,000
    JaMychal Green DEN $7,199,760
    Nemanja Bjelica SAC $7,150,000
    Ivica Zubac LAC $7,000,000
    Darius Miller OKC $7,000,000
    Aron Baynes TOR $6,975,610
    Lauri MarkkanenCHI $6,731,508
    D.J. Augustin MIL $6,666,667
    Jabari Parker SAC $6,500,000
    Chris Boucher TOR $6,490,385

    Can I get a Fred Vanvleet, lavine, Domantas Sabonis combo?

    That's right in that range. That is a super sick 3 players to setup around.

  4. #2824
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    Nov 2020
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    34
    Quote Originally Posted by Twolves88 View Post
    Can I get a Fred Vanvleet, lavine, Domantas Sabonis combo?

    That's right in that range. That is a super sick 3 players to setup around.
    Sure! I posted this more as a general guideline of what the team would look like if you didn't have max contracts and if it would be a better team?
    Last edited by MadCowKG; 01-27-2021 at 10:23 AM.

  5. #2825
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    Jan 2013
    Posts
    109
    Replace Saunders with John Calipari? Energized KAT as well as the fans?

    https://www.yahoo.com/sports/video/c...231416530.html

  6. #2826
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    May 2010
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    11,247
    I think we need to be praying for a top 3 pick so that we keep it this season, our future relies heavily on luck at this point. If we can keep the pick this season due to it being top 3 we will be in great shape. If we got Cade for example I think Culver/Okogie/Juan/Layman/Naz etc. types can be moved with future picks for a nice PF (main goal Siakim given fall off/Raptors play).

    If we lose the pick this year in the 4-7 range and don't make any other moves that will be quite rough imo.

  7. #2827
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    Jul 2007
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    Maple Grove, MN
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    This may be blasphemy, but I am ready to trade KAT and D'lo.

    How about KAT & D'lo for Ayton, CP3 and Bridges?


    PSD Grammar Lesson #1:

    a) their - stands for "belonging to them"
    b) there - means "over there" as in location
    c) they're - short for "they are"

  8. #2828
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oefarmy2005 View Post
    This may be blasphemy, but I am ready to trade KAT and D'lo.

    How about KAT & D'lo for Ayton, CP3 and Bridges?
    A case could be made to trade KAT and DLO.

    I think that KAT and DLO are good players(KAT obviously is on another level)but paying two max players on a team that isn't going to make the playoffs anytime soon probably isn't smart. Consistently being young and rebuilding isn't the answer either. Why not sell out for 3-4 solid NBA players and make a run at the playoffs next season, see what you have in ANT and play that game for a while? Be an average team that sneaks into the playoffs once every few years and then maybe get lucky in the draft in the really down years?

    Counterpoint: We need to actually see DLO and KAT healthy and playing together before making this conclusion.

    My trade idea: KAT and DLO to the pacers for Brogdon, Sabonis, and Turner
    Last edited by MadCowKG; 02-01-2021 at 04:11 PM.

  9. #2829
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    KAT is now well past his 2 week COVID time. I know the off-season was hard on him. Is it possible behind the scenes he's asking to be traded?

  10. #2830
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    Quote Originally Posted by m_witter2003 View Post
    KAT is now well past his 2 week COVID time. I know the off-season was hard on him. Is it possible behind the scenes he's asking to be traded?
    I was listening to "In The Zone" this past Saturday and TT said he thinks Karl may be done for good. I really hope he is wrong about that, but the more time goes by the more realistic is seems.


    PSD Grammar Lesson #1:

    a) their - stands for "belonging to them"
    b) there - means "over there" as in location
    c) they're - short for "they are"

  11. #2831
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadCowKG View Post
    A case could be made to trade KAT and DLO.

    I think that KAT and DLO are good players(KAT obviously is on another level)but paying two max players on a team that isn't going to make the playoffs anytime soon probably isn't smart. Consistently being young and rebuilding isn't the answer either. Why not sell out for 3-4 solid NBA players and make a run at the playoffs next season, see what you have in ANT and play that game for a while? Be an average team that sneaks into the playoffs once every few years and then maybe get lucky in the draft in the really down years?

    Counterpoint: We need to actually see DLO and KAT healthy and playing together before making this conclusion.

    My trade idea: KAT and DLO to the pacers for Brogdon, Sabonis, and Turner
    I don't understand all the hate for DLO from Minnesota fans, the same way I don't understand it for Cousins. Dlo is a really good player, but our system/coaching(or lack there of) have done him ZERO favors. Man, Okogie has been a huge disappointment. I really, really thought his shot was coming along. I don't get how a guy with such good form(his form seriously is good) can be such a bad jump shooter.


    PSD Grammar Lesson #1:

    a) their - stands for "belonging to them"
    b) there - means "over there" as in location
    c) they're - short for "they are"

  12. #2832
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oefarmy2005 View Post
    I don't understand all the hate for DLO from Minnesota fans, the same way I don't understand it for Cousins. Dlo is a really good player, but our system/coaching(or lack there of) have done him ZERO favors. Man, Okogie has been a huge disappointment. I really, really thought his shot was coming along. I don't get how a guy with such good form(his form seriously is good) can be such a bad jump shooter.
    I think a big part is the price the two you initially mention cost. He has a lower RPM and WS/48 and ORTG than Wiggins this year and we are paying him similar $ while also had moved a potential top 5 pick for what was supposed to be a large upgrade. I won't go too in depth on Cousins here but the record 3 years prior were better before and his salary is a major reason (along with his play in certain situations/at certain times even if overall above average).

    Russell, I hope, can play much better than this. Without Towns we have needed him to step up but honestly Beasley is our best player overall so far imo. He isn't a bad player but especially if we lose the pick this year it looks like a questionable trade based off his play and his expectations are going to be higher than what he has shown. I agree with you on part of the improvement needed can come from coaching. I agree with what you quoted saying the counterpoint is lets see them actually all player together. I do think either way Russell needs to step it up quite a bit though.

  13. #2833
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    I think a big part is the price the two you initially mention cost. He has a lower RPM and WS/48 and ORTG than Wiggins this year and we are paying him similar $ while also had moved a potential top 5 pick for what was supposed to be a large upgrade. I won't go too in depth on Cousins here but the record 3 years prior were better before and his salary is a major reason (along with his play in certain situations/at certain times even if overall above average).

    Russell, I hope, can play much better than this. Without Towns we have needed him to step up but honestly Beasley is our best player overall so far imo. He isn't a bad player but especially if we lose the pick this year it looks like a questionable trade based off his play and his expectations are going to be higher than what he has shown. I agree with you on part of the improvement needed can come from coaching. I agree with what you quoted saying the counterpoint is lets see them actually all player together. I do think either way Russell needs to step it up quite a bit though.
    KAT being in the lineup masks a ton of issues. If he plays in half of the games he has missed so far they probably are an 8-10 win team right now. They looked pretty dang good in games 1 and 2 with him and they have looked good in other games too, just needed a superstar punch to get them to a win.

    That is my ducky and bunny take, my harsh take is that you can't be this inept without him. Okogie and Culver have been absolutely terrible without KAT in their careers and we don't really have a clue how Russell looks with him. Rubio and Juancho might be cooked but probably look better with KAT as well.

    Beasley and the rest of the squad have actually been pretty fun/serviceable lately(including Layman and Davis), but you can't win a lot of games with just a 3rd option(Beasley), role players, and exciting young players playing well.

  14. #2834
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    What a f-ing Sh show this wolves team is. Just damn. I think its time to totally trade everything for picks and try again. We are in per gators with two max players...might as well be in purgatory with 3 first round picks a year for the next 4 years and just say f it. Trade Kat for a huge 4 year first round pick hall. Trade D lo for 2 first round picks. Trade Beasley for a first round pick. Give edwards 40 min a game as our starting 2 and let the tank fest begin.

  15. #2835
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadCowKG View Post
    KAT being in the lineup masks a ton of issues. If he plays in half of the games he has missed so far they probably are an 8-10 win team right now. They looked pretty dang good in games 1 and 2 with him and they have looked good in other games too, just needed a superstar punch to get them to a win.

    That is my ducky and bunny take, my harsh take is that you can't be this inept without him. Okogie and Culver have been absolutely terrible without KAT in their careers and we don't really have a clue how Russell looks with him. Rubio and Juancho might be cooked but probably look better with KAT as well.

    Beasley and the rest of the squad have actually been pretty fun/serviceable lately(including Layman and Davis), but you can't win a lot of games with just a 3rd option(Beasley), role players, and exciting young players playing well.
    Ya, I think we are like 2-2 with KAT so it isn't unreasonable at all to think we have closer to 8-10 wins with him right now if he had played a bit more.

    While we shouldn't be this inept I think we all are agreeing some of it is coaching. On top of that Edwards is very young and Russell hasn't quite played up to his abilities yet. That's two of our top 3 outside of Towns so it isn't surprising we have struggled given everything. Culver/Okogie have been disappointing overall. Rubio I never expected much from tbh, at draft time I was of the opinion we should have kept the pick when people were praising the move. Juancho kinda the same but I don't mind resigning cheaper.

    Beasley has looked great, I noted when we signed him it was only 3 years at likely under 45 mil guaranteed and that's looking like a steal. I really liked Mcdaniels in the draft and I legitimately think he has shown the skill set we would love to see at the 4 long term. He has a ton of development needed but I still really like this late pick. Edwards has looked better than I thought, he has star potential. Will he get there is the question but talent wise he has been impressive. Naz has also been impressive in his hard work/improvements. If we get Towns (and Russell) going, Beasley stays who he is, these young guys keep improving and Layman/Davis/Nowell etc. play their roles it shouldn't look quite as bad as it has imo.

    If we keep our pick this offseason we will be set up very nicely imo. If we miss out on the pick we probably develop into a .500 team that is missing another key piece or two. Imagine landing Cade then making a big move with Rubio expiring/Culver/Okogie/Juancho and rights to swap our 23 and 24 firsts for... Siakim (my dream 4 for us lol). Russell/Beasley/Edwards/Siakim/Towns with a stud like Cade off the bench developing. Oh well, my point is before we completely blow it up lets see if we have any luck left first and see what this team actually has (by letting get healthy, improving coaching, letting develop a season and see what offseason brings).

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