Roster Update/Discussion #3

[topdog]

At least Fox News reports alternative facts! lol

My point is that Rubio's lack of finishing at the rim and overall poor shooting % is what drove the narrative...Not the media.

And mine is that many in the media did not pay attention to the actual games in Minnesota and so pedaled the same worn-out narrative that Ricky could not score and that is why he passed. Certainly Rubio has improved his shot, but he also is in a situation now where his team needs him to score unlike the past where he was down on the list of options.

Obviously we all know that Ricky was the worst shooter in league history. That's a fact. Somehow he still managed to do things like get to the line and open up lanes for crisp assists though.

[Hawkeye15]

And mine is that many in the media did not pay attention to the actual games in Minnesota and so pedaled the same worn-out narrative that Ricky could not score and that is why he passed. Certainly Rubio has improved his shot, but he also is in a situation now where his team needs him to score unlike the past where he was down on the list of options.

Obviously we all know that Ricky was the worst shooter in league history. That's a fact. Somehow he still managed to do things like get to the line and open up lanes for crisp assists though.

that is why Ricky is a stat dork's nightmare. He defies the odds and still churns out positive plus/minus every single year, regardless of situation, and flat out makes teams better.

As for scoring, the biggest problem has always been, he REFUSES to even try. When Ricky had his pockets of 30 games where he looked to score, even if he wasn't very efficient, it benefited the team. If he has finally learned that he needs to push the issue to create respect from the defense, while scoring at an acceptable efficiency clip, than we clearly made a terrible trade/signing. But it doesn't matter now...

Rubio is the best I have ever seen at creating passing angles. I watched Magic during the tail end of his career, Stockton, Kidd, Nash, and Paul. Rubio is better than any of them at creating passing angles, his timing is unmatched (where he gets the defense to lull or sway just perfectly), and his delivery is on point every single time. It's a gift we won't see for a very, very long time. I already miss our guys getting uncontested dunks and layups. Teague is straight up as regular as you get when it comes to distribution. Which isn't a negative, it's just the way it is. Teague scores the ball exponentially better, but is worse at literally everything else on the basketball floor.

[topdog]

that is why Ricky is a stat dork's nightmare. He defies the odds and still churns out positive plus/minus every single year, regardless of situation, and flat out makes teams better.

As for scoring, the biggest problem has always been, he REFUSES to even try. When Ricky had his pockets of 30 games where he looked to score, even if he wasn't very efficient, it benefited the team. If he has finally learned that he needs to push the issue to create respect from the defense, while scoring at an acceptable efficiency clip, than we clearly made a terrible trade/signing. But it doesn't matter now...

Rubio is the best I have ever seen at creating passing angles. I watched Magic during the tail end of his career, Stockton, Kidd, Nash, and Paul. Rubio is better than any of them at creating passing angles, his timing is unmatched (where he gets the defense to lull or sway just perfectly), and his delivery is on point every single time. It's a gift we won't see for a very, very long time. I already miss our guys getting uncontested dunks and layups. Teague is straight up as regular as you get when it comes to distribution. Which isn't a negative, it's just the way it is. Teague scores the ball exponentially better, but is worse at literally everything else on the basketball floor.

I've always wondered about that with Rubio's refusal to try more often to be a scorer whether it is a mentality which had been instilled within him since age 14 and so was hard to overcome or whether it was the reactions of particular teammates where he felt he was upsetting them if he were to take more. And of course confidence comes into play especially with the latter.

Ricky was great fun to watch and I hope that he does have a notable and memorable career. I do like Teague. I think that that gets lost in these discussions. The biggest issue with him obviously is that his strength doesn't fit as the theoretical 4th option. Thibs maybe is seeing that in having him play with the bench a bit to be more assertive and get more shots.

On that note, I'm still wondering how Wiggins and Butler are supposed to work together. They are too similar except for where it most counts - desire.

[Hawkeye15]

I've always wondered about that with Rubio's refusal to try more often to be a scorer whether it is a mentality which had been instilled within him since age 14 and so was hard to overcome or whether it was the reactions of particular teammates where he felt he was upsetting them if he were to take more. And of course confidence comes into play especially with the latter.

Ricky was great fun to watch and I hope that he does have a notable and memorable career. I do like Teague. I think that that gets lost in these discussions. The biggest issue with him obviously is that his strength doesn't fit as the theoretical 4th option. Thibs maybe is seeing that in having him play with the bench a bit to be more assertive and get more shots.

On that note, I'm still wondering how Wiggins and Butler are supposed to work together. They are too similar except for where it most counts - desire.

agreed. They are very similar players offensively. Could it work? Sure, but we need to add shooting badly to open the floor for them. Whether that comes from within, or elsewhere, idk. If I am other teams, I just pack it in and force us to win from the outside.

[specialiststeve]

Luol Deng said he and his agent have been working with the Lakers on a potential buyout or trade.

"It definitely hurts," Deng said of being completely out of the rotation. "But the only answer for me now is to prove myself away from LA. I'm not asked to play, I'm not in the rotation so I can't prove myself here." Deng has one of the worst contracts in the NBA and is owed about $54 million over the next three season, so it's going to be almost impossible for them to find a trade partner.

Source: ESPN

No way we trade for him but if he gets bought out? Not sure what I would think but I am guessing Tib's would have some interest.

[DW3421]

It may be an upgrade over Bazz!

[Hawkeye15]

we can't even absorb his deal without sending out the same amount of salary. No thanks unless he is bought out, but why would the Lakers do that? He would need to take a huge cut from his salary to get released.

But, ever since I saw Joe Johnson traded, I realized anything can happen in the NBA, there are stupid GM's everywhere.

[specialiststeve]

^^^^

As I said no way in a trade but if we could get him for the minimum after a buyout. Would lengthen our bench even more. I would guess he would be interested in reuniting with Tib's.

[PurpleJesus]

Just came to post about Deng. Wolves should be all over him after a buyout. Would be a great addition.

[DW3421]

Just came to post about Deng. Wolves should be all over him after a buyout. Would be a great addition.

My sentiments exactly!

[topdog]

My best guess is that LA salary dumps Deng with a pick or young player ala Mozgov/Russell. Congratulations, Lakers. You've finally found out what everyone's known for a year and a half - you lost free agency 2016.

[ellington19]

The facts laid out say a multitude of things, your point being one of them. Another obvious point, that you seem to not understand is the flip side, that Wiggins was in the league at a much younger age than Jimmy because he was much better. You are holding against Wigg for being in the league longer when him being in the league earlier and garnering starter minutes, should be your focal point as to why he is a beast. But again nothing I say will convince you Ell. I understand you clearly. Just don't think you are right. Time will tell.

Furthermore, butler did not improve his first 3 years from 22-24 and during that season at the age of 24 he was arguably worse than 19 year old rookie Wiggins.!?

I'd love to hear you make a point about why we should give up on Wiggins that doesn't contradict not giving up on Butler...since I don't understand, and that's OK.

This is my last talk on the matter, because everyone else is probably sick of seeing it.

When you say that nothing you say will convince me, that's not true - I'm absolutely up for hearing your reasoning, but at the moment it's baseless. You just saying 'Wiggins is a beast' is not providing any facts or stats.

I'm not sure exactly what you're getting at there, but Butler obviously did improve in his first three years in the league..? He then won MIP in his fourth year (you're again discounting the importance of opportunity/experience here - when he got his chance, Butler shone).

With your last statement, I didn't say we should 'give up' on Wiggins. What I've been suggesting (neither you nor me can be right or wrong at this point), is that based on what he has shown so far, he is looking less and less likely to live up to his $150m contract.

With a point guard who can actually score and an all star wing added to our roster, he's now a 20ppg scorer who doesn't bother on defense. He has a helluva long way to go before he's deserving of the kind of money he's on.

With Butler, I was just using him as an example to show that age is not everything.

I get that Wiggins flashed a lot of potential as a rookie - I am in no way denying that. But he is seriously only slightly better on offense four years later (with three full seasons as a no.1 option) and if anything, he is worse defensively (maybe not 'worse', but he's just not putting the time nor energy in at that end of the floor). The argument with Butler is that he showed huge improvement year to year, in line with an increase in usage/minutes/etc.

Right now, Wiggins projects to be a Rudy Gay-type. He similarly burst onto the scene, but hasn't really improved a whole lot from his first three years in the league. And I reiterate, there's nothing wrong with Gay or Wiggins. They're good players. Perhaps great, offensively. But Wiggins should not be paid 30% of our salary cap. He does not currently project to be worth it.

[IKnowHoops]

This is my last talk on the matter, because everyone else is probably sick of seeing it.

When you say that nothing you say will convince me, that's not true - I'm absolutely up for hearing your reasoning, but at the moment it's baseless. You just saying 'Wiggins is a beast' is not providing any facts or stats.

I'm not sure exactly what you're getting at there, but Butler obviously did improve in his first three years in the league..? He then won MIP in his fourth year (you're again discounting the importance of opportunity/experience here - when he got his chance, Butler shone).

With your last statement, I didn't say we should 'give up' on Wiggins. What I've been suggesting (neither you nor me can be right or wrong at this point), is that based on what he has shown so far, he is looking less and less likely to live up to his $150m contract.

With a point guard who can actually score and an all star wing added to our roster, he's now a 20ppg scorer who doesn't bother on defense. He has a helluva long way to go before he's deserving of the kind of money he's on.

With Butler, I was just using him as an example to show that age is not everything.

I get that Wiggins flashed a lot of potential as a rookie - I am in no way denying that. But he is seriously only slightly better on offense four years later (with three full seasons as a no.1 option) and if anything, he is worse defensively (maybe not 'worse', but he's just not putting the time nor energy in at that end of the floor). The argument with Butler is that he showed huge improvement year to year, in line with an increase in usage/minutes/etc.

Right now, Wiggins projects to be a Rudy Gay-type. He similarly burst onto the scene, but hasn't really improved a whole lot from his first three years in the league. And I reiterate, there's nothing wrong with Gay or Wiggins. They're good players. Perhaps great, offensively. But Wiggins should not be paid 30% of our salary cap. He does not currently project to be worth it.

All do respect, Wiggins looked better in his first three years than Jimmy did and at a younger age. Go look at Jimmy's first 3 years. They were worse than Wiggins and at a younger age.

[specialiststeve]

I think we all know where we stand with Wigs. Let's just let this play out.... silly to debate something that is as they... is say what it is....

[PurpleJesus]

Come up with your best roster plan to beat the Warriors this year...choose any current roster in the NBA to do so.

I think its impossible.

I would first think to choose the Bucks, but what are they going to trade, now that they used assets to get Bledsoe?

All eyes on Cleveland I guess. They have to move Love for someone.

Either way, GSW is running away with this. Time for a new lockout.