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  1. #1501
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    With options on culver/okogie for like 10 mil or a little over I think it was and then account for picks we make next couple seasons too as another 10. That would put us at the 103 # I came to


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    Its pretty sad that we have to discuss 2021 because we let a caveman take over as our GM. So many assets gone and only Teague to show for it.

  2. #1502
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    I tried some things on the trade machine after watching the game with the Pelicans.
    First scenario that worked Wiggins, Teague for Jrue and Reddick.
    Second scenario that worked Teague, Dieng again for Jrue and Reddick.
    Add picks at will, it won't happen anyway.
    (God I am down on the Wolves right now)

  3. #1503
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    Quote Originally Posted by DW3421 View Post
    Its pretty sad that we have to discuss 2021 because we let a caveman take over as our GM. So many assets gone and only Teague to show for it.
    Well, RoCo as well.


    PSD Grammar Lesson #1:

    a) their - stands for "belonging to them"
    b) there - means "over there" as in location
    c) they're - short for "they are"

  4. #1504
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oefarmy2005 View Post
    Well, RoCo as well.
    True

  5. #1505
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    Quote Originally Posted by DW3421 View Post
    Its pretty sad that we have to discuss 2021 because we let a caveman take over as our GM. So many assets gone and only Teague to show for it.
    Ya thibs really hurt us with the way he used our assets for non long term pieces. I was complaining about him from basically 2 weeks into his first season and throughought.

    It sucks this is where we are at in just kinda a middle spot. We need another talent like towns (or better) without the assets to get one or likely to get high draft pick.

    We all knew this would be a tough year given the situation. We started hotter than expected but this is where we are really at. We can either make moves for 21 fa or try and hit on a mid round stud


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  6. #1506
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    I am going to start this post with the question that got me into writing it. Did we once again build a really competent bench or is the picture altered because of the extended time and role that these players normally would not get?

    Now let’s have a look at our bench players, and in this I include the players that might start now but we all know they are bench players. I am going to start with Dieng cause I really like him despite his contract. Efficient, hard working and low key. We have a decent back up PG in Bazz, Okogie which is for many of us one of our favorite players, Layman who is a capable role player, I’ll put Culver here cause he is not yet an NBA starter caliber player and maybe Vonleh cause he has shown glimpses of a decent role player.
    We even have some good third string options in Reid, KPD and Graham. Nowell, Bell and K.Martin have not convinced me yet for various reasons and Teague is a foreign body to this team for me.

    That is a decent bench for every NBA team IMO, lacking only in a microwave scorer and some more 3p shooting. Interestingly enough KBD is our best 3p shooter of the bunch with Layman coming second and…Reid third.

    Looking at our “starters” is where our problems begin. Let’s be honest Wiggins is the cancer of this team. His contract, his lack of consistent effort, the fact that if we are lucky to find a dynamic PG (like the modern NBA dictates) his output will fall even more, make him a burden and untradeable. My mind always goes back to one of Hawks’ posts when we gave him a max he said that this was the end. I agreed with him from the start but could not see how severe the situation is.

    Towns is who he is. At some aspects of the game he is one of the best players in the NBA. But for me he lacks the mentality. He has not put it together yet. Both as a leader and his Bball IQ (as I said in some aspects). From his side and if he wants to be a top NBA player he needs to figure out how to dominate the games consistently and how he can translate his efforts in D to results. From the teams side, they need to build a team around him that compliments his virtues and hide his weaknesses. Easier said than done.

    Covington I love and respect and he is more than a good player (playing out of position this year). He is a locker room leader, a teacher and a role model. But he is a third or fourth option in a really good team and we all should keep that in our heads.

    Now unfortunately I can come up with a ton of trade scenarios to fix the situation but the reality is that IMO we should first and foremost find a way to get rid of Wiggins. I do not see a way to move forward with him on our team. Add first round picks, add any player not named Towns to him, just find a way to get rid of him.
    As I said, ideally we should find a dynamic PG. A Russell, a Jrue Holiday, heck a Brogdon would have been good. But if you take the ball away from Wiggins he would regress even more. Or let’s say we try to acquire a good player like Bogdanovic, Wiggins contract would not allow us to re-sign him. So what I am saying is first and foremost let’s get rid of him and get healthy and then rebuild.

    And…at some point we need to address the matter of our head coach. Because as much as I would like it not to be the case, I do not think Saunders Jr. is the solution.

    As for the quality of the bench, the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. But it won’t help us in anything unless we fix the starting line up.

  7. #1507
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverson View Post
    I am going to start this post with the question that got me into writing it. Did we once again build a really competent bench or is the picture altered because of the extended time and role that these players normally would not get?

    Now let’s have a look at our bench players, and in this I include the players that might start now but we all know they are bench players. I am going to start with Dieng cause I really like him despite his contract. Efficient, hard working and low key. We have a decent back up PG in Bazz, Okogie which is for many of us one of our favorite players, Layman who is a capable role player, I’ll put Culver here cause he is not yet an NBA starter caliber player and maybe Vonleh cause he has shown glimpses of a decent role player.
    We even have some good third string options in Reid, KPD and Graham. Nowell, Bell and K.Martin have not convinced me yet for various reasons and Teague is a foreign body to this team for me.

    That is a decent bench for every NBA team IMO, lacking only in a microwave scorer and some more 3p shooting. Interestingly enough KBD is our best 3p shooter of the bunch with Layman coming second and…Reid third.

    Looking at our “starters” is where our problems begin. Let’s be honest Wiggins is the cancer of this team. His contract, his lack of consistent effort, the fact that if we are lucky to find a dynamic PG (like the modern NBA dictates) his output will fall even more, make him a burden and untradeable. My mind always goes back to one of Hawks’ posts when we gave him a max he said that this was the end. I agreed with him from the start but could not see how severe the situation is.

    Towns is who he is. At some aspects of the game he is one of the best players in the NBA. But for me he lacks the mentality. He has not put it together yet. Both as a leader and his Bball IQ (as I said in some aspects). From his side and if he wants to be a top NBA player he needs to figure out how to dominate the games consistently and how he can translate his efforts in D to results. From the teams side, they need to build a team around him that compliments his virtues and hide his weaknesses. Easier said than done.

    Covington I love and respect and he is more than a good player (playing out of position this year). He is a locker room leader, a teacher and a role model. But he is a third or fourth option in a really good team and we all should keep that in our heads.

    Now unfortunately I can come up with a ton of trade scenarios to fix the situation but the reality is that IMO we should first and foremost find a way to get rid of Wiggins. I do not see a way to move forward with him on our team. Add first round picks, add any player not named Towns to him, just find a way to get rid of him.
    As I said, ideally we should find a dynamic PG. A Russell, a Jrue Holiday, heck a Brogdon would have been good. But if you take the ball away from Wiggins he would regress even more. Or let’s say we try to acquire a good player like Bogdanovic, Wiggins contract would not allow us to re-sign him. So what I am saying is first and foremost let’s get rid of him and get healthy and then rebuild.

    And…at some point we need to address the matter of our head coach. Because as much as I would like it not to be the case, I do not think Saunders Jr. is the solution.

    As for the quality of the bench, the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. But it won’t help us in anything unless we fix the starting line up.
    I think the moving Wiggins ship has sailed as he has regressed to an inefficient 13PPG scorer from a somewhat efficient 25PPG scorer. I would break our roster down as follows:
    Players We Have to Move
    1) Wiggins - Enough has been said. He is unmovable, but I would move him for anything, including Chris Paul's contract.
    2) Teague - He has to go. I cringe every time he passes up open 3pt shots and dribbles the air out of the basketball. If you can't find a deal for him, just waive him and let him go to a contender.
    3) RoCo - I like him, a lot, but he isn't what this team needs right now. He has good value in the league, so move him for an asset or two.
    4) Dieng - I don't think he is unmovable, but we would have to take a similar contract back in return, ideally for a lead guard. I will not be terribly upset if he stays. He is a good player, has shown the will to play the modern game and is just a consummate pro.

    Players We Have To Keep
    1) Towns - I, personally, am ready to move on if you can get a really good return for him, but realistically, he isn't going anywhere. Boston/Brooklyn come to mind as good destinations.
    2) Culver - I think he has shown the intangibles to be quite good down the line, but his shot is awful and that will prevent him from developing into an All-Star caliber player.
    3) Okogie - I think it's no secret that he is a fan favorite. He has good shot mechanics, just lacks consistency. If he could shore up his insanely loose handle, he'd be a borderline All-Star caliber player. The instincts, motor and even BBall IQ(to a point) are clearly there.
    4) Naz - I think he will be, really, really good in a few years.
    5) KBD - I thought he was a great pick last year, and his play this year only solidified that notion. He is going to be a very good 3-D wing in this league for years to come.
    6) Layman - The dude is pretty good for what is considered an NBA scrub.
    7) Bell - I just really like the guy. I don't know what it is, but I want him on my team.

    Players That Don't Move The Needle
    1) Napier - I definitely like him more than Teague and he is a decent backup, but I don't see anything special.
    2) Vonleh - Money ball move that hasn't payed out. He definitely has the ability, but it may be that his lack of BBall IQ that's keeping him from reaching his potential, especially with this team.
    3) Graham - I think he is decent for an end of the bench piece.
    4) Nowell - I personally think he can be a pretty good off-guard down the line, ceiling - Eric Gordon, floor - Wayne Ellington.
    5) Martin - He's been better than I expected. TBH, I wouldn't mind keeping him around.

    As far as coaching goes, I think our staff is fine. I think Saunders is more than capable. There are a few games where I question his rotation, but I don't think anyone would do much better with what we currently have.
    Last edited by Oefarmy2005; 01-16-2020 at 11:30 AM.


    PSD Grammar Lesson #1:

    a) their - stands for "belonging to them"
    b) there - means "over there" as in location
    c) they're - short for "they are"

  8. #1508
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    It's hard to figure out what we are planning to do this off-season. But my mind keeps turning back to this question.
    Are 2 vets who can organise the D (let's say JJ is one for example) and 2-3 high energy defenders (Okogie, Culver style) enough to shape up our D in order to be competitive?

  9. #1509
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverson View Post
    It's hard to figure out what we are planning to do this off-season. But my mind keeps turning back to this question.
    Are 2 vets who can organise the D (let's say JJ is one for example) and 2-3 high energy defenders (Okogie, Culver style) enough to shape up our D in order to be competitive?
    I think Beasley is a decent defender, at least most of the time.


    PSD Grammar Lesson #1:

    a) their - stands for "belonging to them"
    b) there - means "over there" as in location
    c) they're - short for "they are"

  10. #1510
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oefarmy2005 View Post
    I think Beasley is a decent defender, at least most of the time.
    I think he is too, but if we ride him as an offensive primary option, that takes away from his D. But, with Towns back, and dribble happy Russell, Beasley aint seeing the usage he had here to date again. We really need an athletic defender at the PF who can guard a couple of positions, or at least hold perimeter guys temporarily on switches.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  11. #1511
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    I would also put him on the high energy defenders but barely.
    And yes I agree with Hawk on the PF defender. But I also think we need vocal leaders in D. Like KG, Gibson and Covington were (To varying degrees).

  12. #1512
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverson View Post
    I would also put him on the high energy defenders but barely.
    And yes I agree with Hawk on the PF defender. But I also think we need vocal leaders in D. Like KG, Gibson and Covington were (To varying degrees).
    If you mean we need a defensive captain, I agree. And they are typically bigs who are behind the defense seeing it all.

    I imagine our free agency money will be eaten up by Beasley, and perhaps Hernangomez. Which means we will need to upgrade via trade (and obvi the draft).

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  13. #1513
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    If you mean we need a defensive captain, I agree. And they are typically bigs who are behind the defense seeing it all.

    I imagine our free agency money will be eaten up by Beasley, and perhaps Hernangomez. Which means we will need to upgrade via trade (and obvi the draft).
    That's why I would love Aaron Gordon. He is exactly what I'd want in a starting PF next to KAT.


    PSD Grammar Lesson #1:

    a) their - stands for "belonging to them"
    b) there - means "over there" as in location
    c) they're - short for "they are"

  14. #1514
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    With the lottery only a few days away, I'm starting to think about packages for Devin Booker. I'm starting to think if MN lands a top 3 pick, it will be used along with another pick, Beasley, Culver, and Okogie. I'd be excited to see it.

  15. #1515
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oefarmy2005 View Post
    That's why I would love Aaron Gordon. He is exactly what I'd want in a starting PF next to KAT.
    Is Gordon considered a good defender? Honest question.

    What I meant Hawk is that wether drafting high energy, inexperienced defenders like Okongwu
    or Precious will be efficient enough to overcome the lack of D from Towns and Russell.

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