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  1. #1321
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    Thibs and the Butler situation killed us, I still remember immediately swearing when I heard on draft night lol. Obviously couldn't have predicted we go from "best young team" in the league to this so fast but Thibs from November on in year 1 just seemed like a massive issue to me that never understood what building a team meant or how to adjust to our roster.

    It sucks we do seem to be back in that spot where we have a star (Towns) and very little else around him. Covington/Saric are nice role players, Okogie has potential. That pretty much covers the positives of this roster. Deing/Wiggins make 40+ mil, Teague adds almost 20, Rose/Tyus/Taj in fa
    At the time of the trade I think most in here would have rather kept Lavine than Wiggins, so you are right in saying that we moved the wrong pieces. In regards to the trade, I was under the assumption that Thibs had a commitment from Butler, but man was I wrong. I still feel like keeping Butler long term was the right answer, but that did not happen and it appears that it was never going to.

    All that being said, the Ricky move really stung as we would have Teague's 20 mil to spend right now. Also, the Wiggs contract is the thing that is ****ing this franchise the most. So yeah, the trade ended up ****ing us, but there are many layers to the royal Thibs **** up. I'll throw in one more.......Drafting Dunn instead of the obvious pick which was Murray. All Thibs moves were geared towards winning now (besides signing Wiggs which was more of a Taylor **** up), which is how most coaches think, and that is why a coach should almost never have all the power in the organization...Coaches = win now - GM's = build for the future.

  2. #1322
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    Quote Originally Posted by DW3421 View Post
    At the time of the trade I think most in here would have rather kept Lavine than Wiggins, so you are right in saying that we moved the wrong pieces. In regards to the trade, I was under the assumption that Thibs had a commitment from Butler, but man was I wrong. I still feel like keeping Butler long term was the right answer, but that did not happen and it appears that it was never going to.

    All that being said, the Ricky move really stung as we would have Teague's 20 mil to spend right now. Also, the Wiggs contract is the thing that is ****ing this franchise the most. So yeah, the trade ended up ****ing us, but there are many layers to the royal Thibs **** up. I'll throw in one more.......Drafting Dunn instead of the obvious pick which was Murray. All Thibs moves were geared towards winning now (besides signing Wiggs which was more of a Taylor **** up), which is how most coaches think, and that is why a coach should almost never have all the power in the organization...Coaches = win now - GM's = build for the future.
    Yup I wanted Murray at the time too, posted in wolves draft thread I think (or general).

    I agree there were definitely many layers and that is what my arguments were based on at the time too. It was that Thibs was the real issue and he was making a short sighted very risky trade moving the wrong pieces to cover up his issues so far as a gm/coach. I was pointing out that taking an overall look at the situation things were likely to go bad and best case would be your scenario which still involves paying an older Butler big $ but was still better than how it played out/solid at least.

    After the trade we just continued on Thibs path going for his guys etc. just like I was saying he wasn't going to acknowledge the issues he was just going to get what he wanted and blame our youth for the failures type thing. Rubio no longer fits because we are catering to Thibs not to Towns/long term plan. It was towards winning now and that was the problem with most moves I agree.


    It is what it is but now we can move on finally to me. Others are tuning out/getting mad now but the time for that was as it happened. No need to linger on the past we can actually get a non coach for GM or pres etc. and make logical long term and well thought out decisions. I don't expect us to get it right but we no longer have that weight around the team for decision making, we might actually start building again. There is a chance this person will not be as poor of a decision maker. We have a legitimate star and some ok secondary talent so it isn't like there is nothing it just isn't what it was pre Thibs either.

  3. #1323
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    Yup I wanted Murray at the time too, posted in wolves draft thread I think (or general).

    I agree there were definitely many layers and that is what my arguments were based on at the time too. It was that Thibs was the real issue and he was making a short sighted very risky trade moving the wrong pieces to cover up his issues so far as a gm/coach. I was pointing out that taking an overall look at the situation things were likely to go bad and best case would be your scenario which still involves paying an older Butler big $ but was still better than how it played out/solid at least.

    After the trade we just continued on Thibs path going for his guys etc. just like I was saying he wasn't going to acknowledge the issues he was just going to get what he wanted and blame our youth for the failures type thing. Rubio no longer fits because we are catering to Thibs not to Towns/long term plan. It was towards winning now and that was the problem with most moves I agree.


    It is what it is but now we can move on finally to me. Others are tuning out/getting mad now but the time for that was as it happened. No need to linger on the past we can actually get a non coach for GM or pres etc. and make logical long term and well thought out decisions. I don't expect us to get it right but we no longer have that weight around the team for decision making, we might actually start building again. There is a chance this person will not be as poor of a decision maker. We have a legitimate star and some ok secondary talent so it isn't like there is nothing it just isn't what it was pre Thibs either.
    I will admit I was much more pissed during the Wiggins signing and the Rubio trade than I was during the Butler deal, but that is because I assumed that Thibs had a commitment from Butler. And you know what happens when we assume. Thibs tore this organization up with what I call his pillar 4 moves

    Trading Rubio (essentially for Teague)
    Signing Wiggs (again a joint effort with Glenn)
    Drafting Dunn (Murray was the obvious pick)
    Butler trade (ended up bring diseased)

    I'll also throw one more out there, signing Deing....Its not the signing that bugged me as much as giving him a big deal and then playing him 12 minutes a night to destroy his value.
    Last edited by DW3421; Yesterday at 07:10 PM.

  4. #1324
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    Quote Originally Posted by DW3421 View Post
    I will admit I was much more pissed during the Wiggins signing and the Rubio trade than I was during the Butler deal, but that is because I assumed that Thibs had a commitment from Butler. And you know what happens when we assume. Thibs tore this organization up with what I call his pillar 4 moves

    Trading Rubio (essentially for Teague)
    Signing Wiggs (again a joint effort with Glenn)
    Drafting Dunn (Murray was the obvious pick)
    Butler trade (ended up bring diseased)

    I'll also throw one more out there, signing Deing....Its not the signing that bugged me as much as giving him a big deal and then playing him 12 minutes a night to destroy his value.
    Yup it is rough when you look at the overall picture.

    I like Covington though and think he can be a good defensive anchor type to make up for Towns not being quite that. I hope he gets healthy and can hit shots while playing elite defense still for us that will be big. Saric is ok but I just see role player tbh. If they had cost wiggins/dunn (when still had value) or something that would have been fine haha.

    Teague we are stuck with for another year but maybe we can move him to a team needing a pg in the offseason since he's expiring?

    In the nba it comes down to stars fitting together though and we have 1. If we can draft another this year it is a huge game changer for the bleak outlook people see and is the key to the offseason. Next would be moving those contracts you mention if possible (Wiggins/Dieng). I think Wiggins for a vet on large contract/young team might make sense enough to push on someone, Conley as I mentioned before might fit.

  5. #1325
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    Yup it is rough when you look at the overall picture.

    I like Covington though and think he can be a good defensive anchor type to make up for Towns not being quite that. I hope he gets healthy and can hit shots while playing elite defense still for us that will be big. Saric is ok but I just see role player tbh. If they had cost wiggins/dunn (when still had value) or something that would have been fine haha.

    Teague we are stuck with for another year but maybe we can move him to a team needing a pg in the offseason since he's expiring?

    In the nba it comes down to stars fitting together though and we have 1. If we can draft another this year it is a huge game changer for the bleak outlook people see and is the key to the offseason. Next would be moving those contracts you mention if possible (Wiggins/Dieng). I think Wiggins for a vet on large contract/young team might make sense enough to push on someone, Conley as I mentioned before might fit.
    I look at it like we have 2 or 3 nice role players in Okogie, Saric, and especially Covington, but only one star (KAT). When you look at the West you need 2 stars just to get you in the playoffs. Denver has like 6 or 7 guys better than our 2nd best player!

    We NEED to hit in this draft or it will be a long season. We have to nab the SOD at #10 or pray that the NBA lotto finally rewards us. Also, I love your idea about moving Wiggs for an aging star like Conley or Lowry, but I wonder if he has enough value to land us either guy. Getting a Conley will help us win more games now and that may be crucial in keeping big kat happy.

    I am literally open to any move involving Wiggins!
    Last edited by DW3421; Yesterday at 07:45 PM.

  6. #1326
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    Quote Originally Posted by DW3421 View Post
    I look at it like we have 2 or 3 nice role players in Okogie, Saric, and especially Covington, but only one star (KAT). When you look at the West you need 2 stars just to get you in the playoffs. Denver has like 6 or 7 guys better than our 2nd best player!

    We NEED to hit in this draft or it will be a long season. We have to nab the SOD at #10 or pray that the NBA lotto finally rewards us. Also, I love your idea about moving Wiggs for an aging star like Conley or Lowry, but I wonder if he has enough value to land us either guy. Getting a Conley will help us win more games now and that may be crucial in keeping big kat happy.

    I am literally open to any move involving Wiggins!
    Ya we might have to add a first but with some teams it will be do they want to keep young/rebuild or have this weird mix so hopefully that is what pushes the value closer for them just the situation. I don't expect anyone is like actively searching out Wiggins lol there just might be one or two situations where it is boosted enough due to that.

    At least 2 stars for sure. If that happens and we move Wiggins for a shorter term contract at some point (likely 2 seasons from now) we will have a lot of cap with said star in his prime, an up and coming one, cov/okogie. I mean tons of stuff can happen between now and then but really hitting on that pick just changes so much. It isn't like this team has nothing with no chances and we just have to tank for years again yet, there is a chance with the right approach and some luck this still turns out nice/special even if unlikely. No thibs means there is a chance that actually happens, that's what we have needed for a while.

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