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  1. #1186
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    I do think the consensus here was never high on Wiggins, to be fair.

    His value, is roughly $6 million a season. Just under NBA average.
    The majority here knew he was maxed out a while ago, but there was still those hanging on. Pretty silent now.

  2. #1187
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    Still think he will be good. Maybe not at the value of his contract but will be good. It may not be with us as he may get moved for another "disappointment". For sure he will flourish then.... Of course i could be wrong...

  3. #1188
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    Quote Originally Posted by specialiststeve View Post
    Still think he will be good. Maybe not at the value of his contract but will be good. It may not be with us as he may get moved for another "disappointment". For sure he will flourish then.... Of course i could be wrong...
    what does "good" mean? Curios. I think he will eventually figure out how to produce a positive VORP and get to a point where he isn't a negative stats wise, but I don't think he will ever sniff all star level for example.

    And his contract is the cherry on top. Many, myself for sure included, are more annoyed because we saw his deal coming, despite his poor play. He is worth what an average NBA player makes, only because of his age. His production level says he is around the 30th percentile of players, meaning his salary should be around $5-6 million. But, it's 5 times that, which is why he is the pinata' on this board, and every national site.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  4. #1189
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    I understand what the masses thoughts are and frustration. I also understand that he has a ton of physical ability and when (hopefully soon) he figures out he has to bring it every night folks will be more positive about his play. That is the part that drives everyone nuts and that is understandable. I also have seen him be unstoppable on the offensive end at times when he asserts himself. He also needs to do the little things that make star players what they are. I do understand clearly he is under performing at this point but also understand his ability is not what a lot of players have.....

    Not going to get into all the metrics as to me that is just a bunch of garbled numbers that people twist to make their point. My eye test is what I go by and it says he has the ability to be an above average player in the NBA. That to me is good. Don't think he will be a star as he does not have the mentality or leadership skills.
    Last edited by specialiststeve; 12-05-2018 at 11:00 AM.

  5. #1190
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    Quote Originally Posted by specialiststeve View Post
    I understand what the masses thoughts are and frustration. I also understand that he has a ton of physical ability and when (hopefully soon) he figures out he has to bring it every night folks will be more positive about his play. That is the part that drives everyone nuts and that is understandable. I also have seen him be unstoppable on the offensive end at times when he asserts himself. He also needs to do the little things that make star players what they are. I do understand clearly he is under performing at this point but also understand his ability is not what a lot of players have.....

    Not going to get into all the metrics as to me that is just a bunch of garbled numbers that people twist to make their point. My eye test is what I go by and it says he has the ability to be an above average player in the NBA. That to me is good. Don't think he will be a star as he does not have the mentality or leadership skills.
    potential and ability only go so far, and Wiggins has demonstrated he just doesn't have any fire. That really can't be changed in a person without some adversity, and Wiggins has his mega deal, his minutes and role guaranteed, etc. So he is given literally zero motivation from outside factors to improve. Which means we now depend on him somehow internally sparking, which cmon man, we aint ever seeing. The eye test alone shows you he literally just stands around and does nothing if not hitting shots. At 25, your fundamental personality isn't going to change.

    Wiggins problem has always been his lack of fire. It was on his scouting report by age 16. To some guys, it's just a job man.

    I hope we are all wrong, but I have written him off. His peak will consist of being an average NBA player. He will always be a waste of athletic gifts in my opinion. And really, if they paid him his worth, I could live with having him and not complain so much. But he is being paid to be a superstar. And it will kill this teams ceiling.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  6. #1191
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    as far as Wiggins' advanced or basic stats, they get worse by the year. Like, he has somehow gotten worse since entering the league. My eye test believes it. He NEVER attacks the rim, he still can't rebound in traffic despite being able to touch the rim with his dick, and can anyone tell me the last charge he took?

    He ****ing sucks, and he eats up valuable minutes at this point that Okogie could be developing with.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  7. #1192
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    Not to mention his defense. He floats. He ****ing floats everywhere. Never seems to be in the right place. Never seems to make the extra effort. He simply relies on his physical skills to get a block or something after he has already been beat.

    I don't know how a guy can be satisfied making the money he does while putting up so little production and effort. Like the Timberwolves' Joe Mauer but even worse. When he walks round the court after a bad play with a smile on his face I want to throw a basketball in his face.

  8. #1193
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wisdom Listens View Post
    Not to mention his defense. He floats. He ****ing floats everywhere. Never seems to be in the right place. Never seems to make the extra effort. He simply relies on his physical skills to get a block or something after he has already been beat.

    I don't know how a guy can be satisfied making the money he does while putting up so little production and effort. Like the Timberwolves' Joe Mauer but even worse. When he walks round the court after a bad play with a smile on his face I want to throw a basketball in his face.
    I mean, sports are no different than real life if it's your job. While it's not as common in pro sports as the real world for coasters to be there (those guys usually weed out along the way), it still happens when a guys physical gifts are so great. But straight up, Wiggins is a coaster. We all know them, work with them, are related to them, hell we may even be them. Wiggins sleeps the same every night, win or lose, play great or terrible. The game doesn't mean much to him, even if he thinks it does.

    The biggest mistake all along was giving him that contract. That is literally like walking into an interview and being told you get a "C" grade for what you have done, but they believe you are capable of more, so here is your 425% raise, and we can't fire you for 5 years. Are you leaving that meeting motivated?

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  9. #1194
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    I saw a deal on FB last night, it was Taj saying, "when I come to the facility at 11pm, Wiggs is getting shots up. He wants it, he works hard, etc".

    It's like the team is campaigning a justification promotion for his incredibly laughable contract. Um, you ****ed up, chalk it up to another Glen Taylor boo boo. The list is huge, and will continue to grow until he dies or sells.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  10. #1195
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    I saw a deal on FB last night, it was Taj saying, "when I come to the facility at 11pm, Wiggs is getting shots up. He wants it, he works hard, etc".

    It's like the team is campaigning a justification promotion for his incredibly laughable contract. Um, you ****ed up, chalk it up to another Glen Taylor boo boo. The list is huge, and will continue to grow until he dies or sells.
    Well maybe he works hard off hours, but is does not translate to the court. Maybe he needs to get out of his head. I mean his entire problem is mental. I would not say he works too hard in game and just makes mistakes because he is not thinking, which is kinds excusable, it's more that he does not put the effort in on the court. It's just so frustrating.

  11. #1196
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wisdom Listens View Post
    Well maybe he works hard off hours, but is does not translate to the court. Maybe he needs to get out of his head. I mean his entire problem is mental. I would not say he works too hard in game and just makes mistakes because he is not thinking, which is kinds excusable, it's more that he does not put the effort in on the court. It's just so frustrating.
    I just don't think he cares. He is a coaster. Even if he THINKS he works hard, he is simply going through the motions.

    Easiest way to put it-everyone is driven differently. We all have a fire burning inside of us. Some rage, some flicker. Wiggins is a flicker. And he clearly stuck with basketball because it provided him success as he grew.

    He just doesn't care enough about the game. And that is fine. But I imagine Wiggins is passive in every form of his life. Just the way he is, and that is fine. But you don't give those guys bazillions of dollars in a salary cap profession. You just don't.

    Frustrating-yes. At this point it's expected he will suck, so whatever. I mean, you can't fix a guy who doesn't care.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  12. #1197
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    I can't believe that I am going to offer Wiggins some support cause I am definitely not his fan. BUT:

    a) He has improved his handle and his shot. So he does work off court on his game. And if you think that is natural or expected let me remind you of Wes Johnson, Derick Williams and Anthony Randolph. I will also mention my favorite Rubio and him never learning to shoot that would make him an elite PG.

    b) An average player IMHO is not able to score 20ppg regardless of efficiency. To me he is a Crawford and JR Smith with less swagger or a Beasley at different position

    C) This scoring ability that we take for granted (for some weird reason) has some value for GMs. So I believe that even at max Wiggins will have some interest for trade. I am not talking many teams but one or two teams will be interested.

  13. #1198
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverson View Post
    I can't believe that I am going to offer Wiggins some support cause I am definitely not his fan. BUT:

    a) He has improved his handle and his shot. So he does work off court on his game. And if you think that is natural or expected let me remind you of Wes Johnson, Derick Williams and Anthony Randolph. I will also mention my favorite Rubio and him never learning to shoot that would make him an elite PG.

    b) An average player IMHO is not able to score 20ppg regardless of efficiency. To me he is a Crawford and JR Smith with less swagger or a Beasley at different position

    C) This scoring ability that we take for granted (for some weird reason) has some value for GMs. So I believe that even at max Wiggins will have some interest for trade. I am not talking many teams but one or two teams will be interested.
    a- not much. In fact he still can't handle the ball well with any pressure, and often stops his dribble drive to avoid a turnover. This isn't a shot, something confidence plays a part of. It's his ENTIRE game. Also, Wiggins is shooting a career low on long 2's, his FT percentage has dropped over time, and he is even finishing poorly now. And we could live with Wiggins being a crappy scorer if he did ANYTHING else positive.

    b- yes, many, many, many players can score 20 a night on bad efficiency if given minutes/shots. It happens on bad teams all the time.

    c- which GM's? Which GM's will take a volume scorer who does nothing, and win? You are also underrating how bad some GMs are. Guys like Wiggins, Rudy Gay, Shareef A Rahim, used to be coveted. But now they have a hard time finding any meaningful role with a team, in a league all about efficiency.

    Wiggins, is a below average player man. He just is. And we pay him and feature him as a star. It's just not going to work long term.
    Last edited by Hawkeye15; 12-06-2018 at 10:41 AM.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  14. #1199
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    It's exactly because I don't underestimate how bad some GMs are that I am saying that there will always be some interest in Wiggins.

  15. #1200
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverson View Post
    It's exactly because I don't underestimate how bad some GMs are that I am saying that there will always be some interest in Wiggins.
    hopefully man. years ago I would have said you were crazy, but then Joe Johnson was traded and I realized anything is possible...

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

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