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  1. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny Powders View Post
    Care to link to fangraphs noting the difference between LOB% and Strand Rate.
    Fangraphs doesn't have anything called Strand Rate and I'm not the one that brought it up ("strand rate"). The issue at hand was Benoit being the best reliever 2nd half of 2016, the rankings are on Fangraphs, see below. Benoit has the best LOB% just like Petit, Pomeraz and a few others this season - are Petit and Pomeraz the best relievers in 2020?




  2. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Yeah dude. Raising my 2 sons, ****ing my 2 wives, and running the sales end of a national tech corporation from my living room.

    Your comment might have bothered me if I knew who you are or cared about your opinion. But I donít and I donít.

    At least chaotic found a use for his philosophy major lol? The move is to point out the fallacies in his search for fallacies, but like I said I donít care enough.
    Actually one of my two minors, not one of my 2 majors, but that's besides the point.

    Fallacies and the use of them in arguments are also found in law, which is why when there is a lack of facts or evidence to support a viewpoint, you try to persuade others with things that have no relevance to garner support. I.e. trying to exert machismo or dominance by saying 'I got no time for this cause I'm ****ing my two wives' when you can't support your position to distract from the topic at hand. Guess what, we all have families and **** our significant others, some just do it better than others.

    Now back to the previous point, which was, at that point in time (without hindsight or re-writing history), it was deemed a good trade for Toronto getting a sub 4 ERA starter the previous 2 years to be our depth SP or RP at that time for a playoff run that, Chavez being sent here was more for a salary dump for the A's than a top closer at that time. That deal worked out for Toronto in 2016, as they made the playoff with him, even with his minimal or marginal contribution. It didn't work out for Oakland and Hendriks until 2019, 3 years after the trade and one year after Oakland DFA'd him. Which no one, not even Oakland or Hendriks himself at that time could have predicted what 2019 or 2020 would be. I'm really happy it worked out for him there. No guarantee it would have worked well for him here in 2019, 2020 or beyond.

    If the goal is to make the playoffs and any trade that led us there is part of doing so, according to your logic in past posts defending AA's trades in 2015, then it wasn't a waste of assets. You can't argue one way for one GM and another way for another GM. Unlike with your wives, you can't have it both ways here.
    Last edited by Chaotic98; 09-13-2020 at 10:24 PM.

  3. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanton View Post
    Fangraphs doesn't have anything called Strand Rate and I'm not the one that brought it up ("strand rate"). The issue at hand was Benoit being the best reliever 2nd half of 2016, the rankings are on Fangraphs, see below. Benoit has the best LOB% just like Petit, Pomeraz and a few others this season - are Petit and Pomeraz the best relievers in 2020?



    No the issue was you saying they are two different things. They aren't. It's like calling it strike out % and k%

  4. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaotic98 View Post
    Actually one of my two minors, not one of my 2 majors, but that's besides the point.

    Fallacies and the use of them in arguments are also found in law, which is why when there is a lack of facts or evidence to support a viewpoint, you try to persuade others with things that have no relevance to garner support. I.e. trying to exert machismo or dominance by saying 'I got no time for this cause I'm ****ing my two wives' when you can't support your position to distract from the topic at hand. Guess what, we all have families and **** our significant others, some just do it better than others.

    Now back to the previous point, which was, at that point in time (without hindsight or re-writing history), it was deemed a good trade for Toronto getting a sub 4 ERA starter the previous 2 years to be our depth SP or RP at that time for a playoff run that, Chavez being sent here was more for a salary dump for the A's than a top closer at that time. That deal worked out for Toronto in 2016, as they made the playoff with him, even with his minimal or marginal contribution. It didn't work out for Oakland and Hendriks until 2019, 3 years after the trade and one year after Oakland DFA'd him. Which no one, not even Oakland or Hendriks himself at that time could have predicted what 2019 or 2020 would be. I'm really happy it worked out for him there. No guarantee it would have worked well for him here in 2019, 2020 or beyond.

    If the goal is to make the playoffs and any trade that led us there is part of doing so, according to your logic in past posts defending AA's trades in 2015, then it wasn't a waste of assets. You can't argue one way for one GM and another way for another GM. Unlike with your wives, you can't have it both ways here.
    Iím not having it both ways and Iím not using hind sight. Thatís great that you thought the trade was fine at the time. I didnít, I hated it. I didnít see the upside in Chavez, and I saw a lot of upside in Hendrix. I was completely puzzled by the trade at the time. Hindsight only proves Iím right.

  5. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny Powders View Post
    No the issue was you saying they are two different things. They aren't. It's like calling it strike out % and k%
    Do you see Strand Rate on that chart?

  6. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Iím not having it both ways and Iím not using hind sight. Thatís great that you thought the trade was fine at the time. I didnít, I hated it. I didnít see the upside in Chavez, and I saw a lot of upside in Hendrix. I was completely puzzled by the trade at the time. Hindsight only proves Iím right.
    Honestly, you should be an MLB scout or GM with your eyes, because all 30 MLB teams, their GMs, scouting departments passed on him THREE times via DFA. Then 5 different team's pitching coaches, the Twins who DFA'd him in 2013, the Cubs who placed him on Waivers in 2013, then the Jays who pick him up in 2013. Then traded him in 2014 to the Royals with Kratz for Danny Valencia (AA traded him too). Then he was DFA'd by the Royals in 2014, claimed again by the Jays (That's 5 teams in 1.5 years now if you're keeping track now). Traded in 2016 to the A's, DFA'd for the third time in 2018.

    Let's keep count:
    DFA'd'd in 2013, 2014, 2018.
    Traded twice in 2014 (once By AA). Traded in 2016

    Yet, you and only you, saw this massive upside in him. What ever profession you are in, you're clearly in the wrong one my friend.
    Last edited by Chaotic98; 09-14-2020 at 10:33 PM.

  7. #247
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    I had no idea Liam Hendriks was this good but just looked at 2016 - present and he has been one of the most dominant relievers in the league.


  8. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaotic98 View Post
    Honestly, you should be an MLB scout or GM with your eyes, because all 30 MLB teams, their GMs, scouting departments passed on him THREE times via DFA. Then 5 different team's pitching coaches, the Twins who DFA'd him in 2013, the Cubs who placed him on Waivers in 2013, then the Jays who pick him up in 2013. Then traded him in 2014 to the Royals with Kratz for Danny Valencia (AA traded him too). Then he was DFA'd by the Royals in 2014, claimed again by the Jays (That's 5 teams in 1.5 years now if you're keeping track now). Traded in 2016 to the A's, DFA'd for the third time in 2018.

    Let's keep count:
    DFA'd'd in 2013, 2014, 2018.
    Traded twice in 2014 (once By AA). Traded in 2016

    Yet, you and only you, saw this massive upside in him. What ever profession you are in, you're clearly in the wrong one my friend.
    Thanks!

  9. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanton View Post
    Do you see Strand Rate on that chart?
    I don't. Do you see the word strikeout? Walk? Home Run? Better stop using those terms as well

  10. #250
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    When I google strand rate, the definition refers to LOB%.

    LOB% doesnít include inherited runners from what I understand.

    I believe what is being disagreed on is if ďstrand rateĒ includes inherited runners, and we have our answer. It doesnít.

    Did I miss something?

  11. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    When I google strand rate, the definition refers to LOB%.

    LOB% doesnít include inherited runners from what I understand.

    I believe what is being disagreed on is if ďstrand rateĒ includes inherited runners, and we have our answer. It doesnít.

    Did I miss something?
    You didn't miss anything. T

    hey are the two different terms for the same stat. Kind of like walk/bb and strikeout/k. Hanton should just let this one slide

  12. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny Powders View Post
    You didn't miss anything. T

    hey are the two different terms for the same stat. Kind of like walk/bb and strikeout/k. Hanton should just let this one slide
    K's, Walks and Home Runs are events. Where as LOB% is a formula, Strand Rate is another formula. They are not the same formula. It's why I keep bringing this back to LOB%

    "One of the statistics that Shandler invented and tracks is called ďStrand Rate.Ē We have our own version of Strand Rate at THT, called LOB% (percent of baserunners left on base). Our formula differs a bit from Strand Rate; ours is (H+BB+HBP-R)/(H+BB+HBP-(1.4*HR)). Essentially, itís the number of baserunners who didnít score divided by the total number of baserunners (except those who scored on a home run). We exclude home runs from the base because we want to measure things a pitcher is less likely to control."

    https://tht.fangraphs.com/left-on-base/

  13. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanton View Post
    K's, Walks and Home Runs are events. Where as LOB% is a formula, Strand Rate is another formula. They are not the same formula. It's why I keep bringing this back to LOB%

    "One of the statistics that Shandler invented and tracks is called ďStrand Rate.Ē We have our own version of Strand Rate at THT, called LOB% (percent of baserunners left on base). Our formula differs a bit from Strand Rate; ours is (H+BB+HBP-R)/(H+BB+HBP-(1.4*HR)). Essentially, itís the number of baserunners who didnít score divided by the total number of baserunners (except those who scored on a home run). We exclude home runs from the base because we want to measure things a pitcher is less likely to control."

    https://tht.fangraphs.com/left-on-base/
    Ok, supply me with the formula for both if they have different formulas

  14. #254
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    Sorry I'm a bit late getting back to the party, things have been CRAZY.

    Between banging my 3 wives, drag racing with Lewis Hamilton and working on a new album with Jay-Z, it's a wonder I have any time to reply at all! I'll use it as a convenience excuse when I don't want to reply to something though, so please everyone... just keep that in mind for the future.

    Billy McKinney just got waived. Serious question, if he turns into a star now in Milwaukee, was it a terrible move to cut bait? Cause that's the argument that's being made about Hendricks here.

    Similar to Edwin actually, we got extremely lucky to still have him when he turned into a star hitter. Before that he was waived, multiple times and any team in baseball could have had him. Sometimes people don't break out immediately, sometimes they are just AAAA players, sometimes they need a change of scenery and sometimes it just clicks at a random time like it did with Edwin and Bautista (and Hendricks). It has nothing to do with #scoutseyes.

    And lol that multiple days and many posts later, hanton still doesn't know how to read stats :laughs:

  15. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by StayOnBoard View Post
    Sorry I'm a bit late getting back to the party, things have been CRAZY.

    Between banging my 3 wives, drag racing with Lewis Hamilton and working on a new album with Jay-Z, it's a wonder I have any time to reply at all! I'll use it as a convenience excuse when I don't want to reply to something though, so please everyone... just keep that in mind for the future.

    Billy McKinney just got waived. Serious question, if he turns into a star now in Milwaukee, was it a terrible move to cut bait? Cause that's the argument that's being made about Hendricks here.

    Similar to Edwin actually, we got extremely lucky to still have him when he turned into a star hitter. Before that he was waived, multiple times and any team in baseball could have had him. Sometimes people don't break out immediately, sometimes they are just AAAA players, sometimes they need a change of scenery and sometimes it just clicks at a random time like it did with Edwin and Bautista (and Hendricks). It has nothing to do with #scoutseyes.

    And lol that multiple days and many posts later, hanton still doesn't know how to read stats :laughs:
    I think people forget EE was sent packing to Oakland and then waived and we brought him back and then he broke out. Extremely lucky there.

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