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  1. #1
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    Grade Shapiro/Atkins

    With the non waiver trade deadline passed chances are there will be no more moves this year. With that being said, how would you grade the new regime?

    I give them an A.

    They came out in the off-season and made a bold move grabbing Happ before any other pitcher went off the market. It's turned out to be one of, if not the best free agent acquisition for any team this past off-season.

    Nabbing Biagini via Rule 5 draft was an excellent move.

    They also addressed the bullpen with Storen and dealt from an area of strength (OF). That trade made sense but it didn't work out so then at the deadline they trimmed the fat and replaced him with Benoit who has been excellent.

    The Grilli deal was phenomenal. Definitely began the transformation of this BP.

    The Upton deal was great from a value standpoint. He provides depth this year and a last resort replacement for next year all at 5 mil total.

    Shapiro/Atkins inherited a championship caliber team on a tight budget. They made a flurry of low cost moves and the majority of them have paid off in a big way. They've also proven that they don't tolerate crappy play and won't hesitate to get rid of struggling players. The only real reason I haven't given them an A+ is because they were unable to re-sign one of Jose or Edwin before the season began and they couldn't lock up JD long term. Otherwise, they've done an excellent job. Far better than I expected them to do.
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Facts can be hypothetical.

  2. #2
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    I would say too early to judge. But if they win the division you have to give them an A.

  3. #3
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    Grade D.

    Actually this is discussed at length in some SportsNet articles.

    For the record, early crafty low budget extension/signing/rule 5 draft moves in offseason were all LaCava.

    Estrada/Happ/Biagini

    Stupiro steps up with his chatter box and instantly pissed off most fans/players

    - Napkins over LaCava
    - No Grass but WIFI connectivity upgrades instead
    - Arbitration with MVP for couple Ks
    - MVP extension covering arbitration years
    - No new deal for EE
    - Jose blasts "no nego" with new regime
    - Tabs Eric Wedge for player development (huh?)

    Napkins appears on scene after spring training.

    - Starts by trading away Revere/Storen
    - Tried his best to rid Saunders/Bruce
    - Bullpen as is with Storen as lone reinforcement
    - Laughable mid-season offer to EE past EE's deadline (2 years + option)
    - Grilli pickup proves his lone saving grace
    - So-so draft with Bichette a worthy mention
    - Smoak extended 2 years 4M per
    - Upton arrives 5M per
    - Sanchez debacle. Strict top-down approach showing little clubhouse communication til very end reversal decision which again, pissed off fanbase/players/media
    - Benoit/Storen flip pound for pound proving good pickup thus far
    - Liriano arrives with 2 so-so specs but 13.5M commitment next year

    On acquisitions, other than Grilli and Benoit, I just worry over Smoak/Upton/Liriano who eats up 22.5M already next season and 9M in 2018. Its a bust for me. 22.5 M offers alot of wiggle room to tinker with in off-season having 1B/DH/LF/BP/CL to retool.

    Napkins demeanor is soft and alright but he just baffles on and on forever without much conclusion. Incomparable with AA's savvy tone, ninja gambling trades. Stupiro is a classic old-fashioned tool who really should hide from spotlight. Anytime he speaks, just manages to stir the pot and anger players/fans somewhere.

    Great season so far with own fair share of bumps bruises, but managed to sit 1st place in AL East. Worried for 2017 once AA's blueprint power bats Jose/EE are likely outbid for a pick.

    Bring back the Ninja. The sooner the better. Hail AA

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by superfio View Post
    Grade D.

    Actually this is discussed at length in some SportsNet articles.

    For the record, early crafty low budget extension/signing/rule 5 draft moves in offseason were all LaCava.

    Estrada/Happ/Biagini
    I don't know why people dismiss Shapiro's accomplishments by saying LaCava did stuff. He did stuff under Shapiro's watch lol. Also, under your argument, then LaCava is responsible for the worst move of the offseason, moving Hendriks for Chavez. Since Hendriks has been healthy he has a 1.91 ERA, and the dominant peripherals have returned.

    - Napkins over LaCava
    - No Grass but WIFI connectivity upgrades instead
    - Arbitration with MVP for couple Ks
    - MVP extension covering arbitration years
    - No new deal for EE
    - Jose blasts "no nego" with new regime
    - Tabs Eric Wedge for player development (huh?)
    I care more about Wifi than grass, but regardless this is a long standing issue and if you're going to complain about it it's laughable. The arbitration issue happens with every team so like give me a break. They were smart to wait for deals on both EE/JB - imagine if they'd rushed into signing Bautista, for instance. You'd be calling them fools instead. So damned if they do, and damned if they don't. I don't like Wedge but whatever, as long as he's not managing it's not an issue.

    N
    apkins appears on scene after spring training.

    - Starts by trading away Revere/Storen
    A good move, didn't work out.

    - Tried his best to rid Saunders/Bruce
    - Bullpen as is with Storen as lone reinforcement
    Osuna/Cecil/Storen should have been a stellar bullpen. Didn't work out, but let's not pretend that wasn't a dominant top 3. That's 3 top 30 relievers.

    - Grilli pickup proves his lone saving grace
    There's been more than one good move, but ok.

    - So-so draft with Bichette a worthy mention
    You must be one of the few people who think its a so-so draft.

    Smoak extended 2 years 4M per
    Agreed, dumb, but this would if this is the second worst move they've made in their tenure, they're doing pretty well.

    Upton arrives 5M per
    A fantastic move, but I guess you can't give them to much credit or it would ruin your shtick. By the way, who is one of the Jays top hitters this year? Tulo. Remember how he did last year? Yeah, sometimes it takes a while for a guy to get their footing. But this is a stellar move.

    Sanchez debacle. Strict top-down approach shonbase/players/media
    - Benoit/Storen flip pound for pound proving gowing little clubhouse communication til very end reversal decision which again, pissed off faod pickup thus far
    Who gives a damn how they got to this point? The fact is they recognized it would be a mistake to put him in the bullpen, and found a creative solution to keep him in the rotation. That's what I want my team to do.

    As for your article about little clubhouse communication, I highly doubt that. Reading this interview:

    JFtC: Is there a difference now that the regime has changed? Do you feel your development is being handled differently?

    DP: Yeah, I think itís a lot different than when Alex (Anthopoulos) was here. When Alex was here I felt like it was more about Ė not that it isnít a business overall Ė but he kind of treated everybody like a business piece. It was a lot different. I never really talked to him at all, but these new guys, I talk to Ross Atkins a lot and heís really in tune with my routine and what Iím doing to prepare myself for the game and let the results take care of itself. Thereís kind of a different mindset to what they do and I think thatís just because they came from the (Cleveland) Indians, where they are really big on development. Itís definitely helped me out a lot.
    If they're talking to Pompey and other prospects constantly, and more than AA, I'd have a hard time buying your argument they're not talking with the clubhouse.

    - Liriano arrives with 2 so-so specs but 13.5M commitment next year
    Yeah how terrible that they acquired a guy who could be a front of the rotation pitcher on a potentially bargain contract for next year. Pretty much everybody calls this a win for the Jays.

    On acquisitions, other than Grilli and Benoit, I just worry over Smoak/Upton/Liriano who eats up 22.5M already next season and 9M in 2018. Its a bust for me. 22.5 M offers alot of wiggle room to tinker with in off-season having 1B/DH/LF/BP/CL to retool.
    The only dead weight there is Smoak. Upton is an incredible bargain at 2-3M. Even if he's only the fourth OF, he'd be a steal, but as the potential starting LF, Upton allows them to upgrade other spots. Liriano makes a decent amount of money, but you're not getting a potential front of the rotation guy for 13M.

    They also didn't sell the farm while making quality upgrades, making sure future teams remain strong and there's no longer the issue of a "window closing". But hey, let's not focus on that.

    What a ridiculous post.
    Last edited by Twitchy; 08-15-2016 at 09:11 AM.

  5. #5
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    #stuperfio

  6. #6
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    Grade Shapiro/Atkins

    I'd give them a solid B/B+. A lot of their moves have worked out better then expected.

    Only really dislike the Smoak deal, would of preferred Pompey up.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twitchy View Post
    I don't know why people dismiss Shapiro's accomplishments by saying LaCava did stuff. He did stuff under Shapiro's watch lol. Also, under your argument, then LaCava is responsible for the worst move of the offseason, moving Hendriks for Chavez. Since Hendriks has been healthy he has a 1.91 ERA, and the dominant peripherals have returned.



    I care more about Wifi than grass, but regardless this is a long standing issue and if you're going to complain about it it's laughable. The arbitration issue happens with every team so like give me a break. They were smart to wait for deals on both EE/JB - imagine if they'd rushed into signing Bautista, for instance. You'd be calling them fools instead. So damned if they do, and damned if they don't. I don't like Wedge but whatever, as long as he's not managing it's not an issue.


    N

    A good move, didn't work out.



    Osuna/Cecil/Storen should have been a stellar bullpen. Didn't work out, but let's not pretend that wasn't a dominant top 3. That's 3 top 30 relievers.



    There's been more than one good move, but ok.



    You must be one of the few people who think its a so-so draft.



    Agreed, dumb, but this would if this is the second worst move they've made in their tenure, they're doing pretty well.



    A fantastic move, but I guess you can't give them to much credit or it would ruin your shtick. By the way, who is one of the Jays top hitters this year? Tulo. Remember how he did last year? Yeah, sometimes it takes a while for a guy to get their footing. But this is a stellar move.



    Who gives a damn how they got to this point? The fact is they recognized it would be a mistake to put him in the bullpen, and found a creative solution to keep him in the rotation. That's what I want my team to do.

    As for your article about little clubhouse communication, I highly doubt that. Reading this interview:



    If they're talking to Pompey and other prospects constantly, and more than AA, I'd have a hard time buying your argument they're not talking with the clubhouse.



    Yeah how terrible that they acquired a guy who could be a front of the rotation pitcher on a potentially bargain contract for next year. Pretty much everybody calls this a win for the Jays.



    The only dead weight there is Smoak. Upton is an incredible bargain at 2-3M. Even if he's only the fourth OF, he'd be a steal, but as the potential starting LF, Upton allows them to upgrade other spots. Liriano makes a decent amount of money, but you're not getting a potential front of the rotation guy for 13M.

    They also didn't sell the farm while making quality upgrades, making sure future teams remain strong and there's no longer the issue of a "window closing". But hey, let's not focus on that.

    What a ridiculous post.
    Doubtful eye on these morons, who simply had a wink from lady luck and handed winning team on their laps.

    Firstly, biggest suprises this season Estrada/Happ was none of Stupiro's business. It takes months of scouting and evaluation to gamble this early into off-season, i.e. Stupiro was officially 2 weeks into duty when Estrada signed the deal. Happ was signed 3 weeks in under his helm. Stupiro had nothing to do with it, and therefore no credit for anything he didn't know about.

    Not sure why Liam Hendriks is resurging according to you, and for how many innings that was worth, but Hendriks sports a 4.23 ERA, 44.2 IP, 1.231 WHIP in 2016. More importantly, his HR/9 ratio jumped from 0.4 ->1.0 in one year switching from Skydome to Oak Collesium. Imagine the bombs flying out and our already nasty record of 1 run losses pile up even more miserably. Clearly, LaCava was CORRECT to sell high on Hendriks, maybe he saw the cracks already coming from medical department.

    Between Dec-Feb, it was a PR nightmare thru the lingering issues of No Grass but WIFI/Arb with MVP/then Extension with MVP/EE No Extension/Jose No Extension/Wedge hiring. Apparently, season ticket sales actually dropped 20% as same time one year ago, ironically after tasting playoffs first time in 22 years. A Fanbase was gutted by this clown 3 months into his job and that in itself is a grade down.

    2016 Draft was labelled a college draft for the Jays. Enough said.

    In terms of clubhouse communication, I meant the MLB Toronto Blue Jays clubhouse. Your reference, Dalton Pompey was rushed all the way from Advanced A-ball to his MLB debut in one year. How do you fairly expect a busy GM to keep in touch with a low spec down in Dunedin? Other hand, Martin's frustrations were well documented in showing up Stupiro/Atkins publicly --- I DONíT LIKE IT and Disagrees with the Decision (to put Sanchez into the 'pen).

    Finally, if you feel Upton/Smoak/Liriano are "upgrades" and "TORP on bargain contract", I just LMAO. As a sabremetric yourself, probably our best around here, your call to decline the stats, so be it. I just see bust written all over it. I guess this will be the first major test on Stupiro/Napkins's talent evaluation and franchise building skills.

    Grade D.
    Last edited by superfio; 08-15-2016 at 11:49 AM.

  8. #8
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    So let's sum this up.

    Shapiro gets no credit for Estrada/Happ because it's impossible for him to scout those players because he wouldn't have done that as the President of another MLB organization. He had absolutely nothing to do with it as President of the Blue Jays other than offering them the deals. Cool.

    He nixed natural grass. That really did some damage to our team. He also didn't give Jose his ludacrous contract.

    You make excuses for AA's lack of communication with specs but blast Shapiro for lack of communication in the MLB clubhouse. Then you criticize him for something that didn't happen (Sanchez to the pen) because he communicated within the MLB clubhouse.

    Upton is an upgrade over Zeke and Liriano is an upgrade over Hutch.

    You need to stop drinking the haterade.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by superfio View Post
    Grade D.

    Actually this is discussed at length in some SportsNet articles.

    For the record, early crafty low budget extension/signing/rule 5 draft moves in offseason were all LaCava.

    Estrada/Happ/Biagini

    Stupiro steps up with his chatter box and instantly pissed off most fans/players

    - Napkins over LaCava
    - No Grass but WIFI connectivity upgrades instead
    - Arbitration with MVP for couple Ks
    - MVP extension covering arbitration years
    - No new deal for EE
    - Jose blasts "no nego" with new regime
    - Tabs Eric Wedge for player development (huh?)

    Napkins appears on scene after spring training.

    - Starts by trading away Revere/Storen
    - Tried his best to rid Saunders/Bruce
    - Bullpen as is with Storen as lone reinforcement
    - Laughable mid-season offer to EE past EE's deadline (2 years + option)
    - Grilli pickup proves his lone saving grace
    - So-so draft with Bichette a worthy mention
    - Smoak extended 2 years 4M per
    - Upton arrives 5M per
    - Sanchez debacle. Strict top-down approach showing little clubhouse communication til very end reversal decision which again, pissed off fanbase/players/media
    - Benoit/Storen flip pound for pound proving good pickup thus far
    - Liriano arrives with 2 so-so specs but 13.5M commitment next year

    On acquisitions, other than Grilli and Benoit, I just worry over Smoak/Upton/Liriano who eats up 22.5M already next season and 9M in 2018. Its a bust for me. 22.5 M offers alot of wiggle room to tinker with in off-season having 1B/DH/LF/BP/CL to retool.

    Napkins demeanor is soft and alright but he just baffles on and on forever without much conclusion. Incomparable with AA's savvy tone, ninja gambling trades. Stupiro is a classic old-fashioned tool who really should hide from spotlight. Anytime he speaks, just manages to stir the pot and anger players/fans somewhere.

    Great season so far with own fair share of bumps bruises, but managed to sit 1st place in AL East. Worried for 2017 once AA's blueprint power bats Jose/EE are likely outbid for a pick.

    Bring back the Ninja. The sooner the better. Hail AA
    THis post is laughable in so many ways that I don't even want to bother with a detailed response.

  10. #10
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    I don't understand how a player making 5M over 1.5 years, who can hit 20 HR, steal 20 bases, play exceptional defense is a bad deal. Even if he is a below league average hitter, everything else he can do is worth well more than 5M for 1.5 years. THats just ludicrous. I can't see a rational argument to say these guys haven't done a pretty good job in the 9 months they have been here.

    I get you liked AA and I too was upset when he left. But you need to get over it. He isn't coming back and will probably never come back. If you want to continue to live in the past then go for it. But the here and now is Shapiro and Atkins and you need to get over it.

    Imagine how ****ed this franchise would have been had they given into Jose and paid him 25M for 5 years. I hope he comes back for a reasonable short term deal. He turns 36 is September, anything more than 3/$60 would be asinine.

    My focus will be on EE and if JOse wants to join then he can hop on. BUt this team with EE and no Jose will still be a contender next year with one of the better pitching staffs and defense and with a still pretty good offence (with EE).

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by superfio View Post
    Firstly, biggest suprises this season Estrada/Happ was none of Stupiro's business. It takes months of scouting and evaluation to gamble this early into off-season, i.e. Stupiro was officially 2 weeks into duty when Estrada signed the deal. Happ was signed 3 weeks in under his helm. Stupiro had nothing to do with it, and therefore no credit for anything he didn't know about.
    Nobody would have scouted Happ for months, given he only started pitching well in August. And seeing as the plan was to at least QO Estrada, and anybody could have figured that one out, there's no chance he wouldn't have been with the org. But ok, nice try.

    Not sure why Liam Hendriks is resurging according to you, and for how many innings that was worth, but Hendriks sports a 4.23 ERA, 44.2 IP, 1.231 WHIP in 2016. More importantly, his HR/9 ratio jumped from 0.4 ->1.0 in one year switching from Skydome to Oak Collesium. Imagine the bombs flying out and our already nasty record of 1 run losses pile up even more miserably. Clearly, LaCava was CORRECT to sell high on Hendriks, maybe he saw the cracks already coming from medical department.
    I know it's beyond your ability to look at the context of a situation, but we know Hendriks was pitching injured for the first 2 months. Turns out you don't pitch well when you're hurt. Shocking, I know. Since he's been healthy the peripherals are back. He's still a stud, and LaCava & Shapiro made a dumb decision to trade him.

    Between Dec-Feb, it was a PR nightmare thru the lingering issues of No Grass but WIFI/Arb with MVP/then Extension with MVP/EE No Extension/Jose No Extension/Wedge hiring. Apparently, season ticket sales actually dropped 20% as same time one year ago, ironically after tasting playoffs first time in 22 years. A Fanbase was gutted by this clown 3 months into his job and that in itself is a grade down.
    And yet attendance is #1 right now. But the fanbase is "gutted' according to you.

    2016 Draft was labelled a college draft for the Jays. Enough said.
    That doesn't mean bad.

    In terms of clubhouse communication, I meant the MLB Toronto Blue Jays clubhouse.
    Except that's not what happened.

    Your reference, Dalton Pompey was rushed all the way from Advanced A-ball to his MLB debut in one year. How do you fairly expect a busy GM to keep in touch with a low spec down in Dunedin?
    That's what a good organization does, actually. One committed to development.

    Other hand, Martin's frustrations were well documented in showing up Stupiro/Atkins publicly --- I DONíT LIKE IT and Disagrees with the Decision (to put Sanchez into the 'pen).
    There's nothing wrong with what happened.

    Finally, if you feel Upton/Smoak/Liriano are "upgrades" and "TORP on bargain contract", I just LMAO. As a sabremetric yourself, probably our best around here, your call to decline the stats, so be it. I just see bust written all over it. I guess this will be the first major test on Stupiro/Napkins's talent evaluation and franchise building skills.
    During his time with the Padres Upton had a 103 wRC+ with plus defence in LF and plus speed. He had a brutal debut, but yeah, he's an upgrade. Upton has had 54 AB with the Jays, they've been bad, certainly, but judging a guy based on that is stupid. It's why people hated Tulo after coming over, and yet he's one of the most reliable hitters because you need a bigger sample size.

  12. #12
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    Grade Shapiro/Atkins

    Twitch don't screw up his argument with non sense like facts.

    I at first was all for throwing Shapiro/Atkins under the bus and begging AA to come back but they have won me over with smart baseball decisions and though I still love AA and what he did and can still do other then just being stubborn and a sour grapes mentality I don't know how you can't be somewhat impressed with the new regime. Is it better then what AA would of done ? I'd still rather have AA but that shouldn't take anything away from what these guys have done.

  13. #13
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    A/a+
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  14. #14
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    Yeah like yourself I didn't like a lot of the Shapiro moves, or the process. But they've made some great in season moves and some of their gambles like Happ really paid off. So intrigued to see what they do going forward.

  15. #15
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    B... I wish they would've fixed the bullpen earlier. Grilli has been great, I'm not sold on Benoit or Feldman though. Benoit is really giving me Latroy Hawkins flashbacks for some reason, and it's not because of his age. He's better than Storen though so kinda indifferent, just uneasy about him in high leverage situations.

    Don't like their boners for Smoak and keeping him employed. Are we positive that Smoak isn't related somehow to Shap or Ross?

    I like the Upton trade and Liriano's as long as we are still able to resign Edwin.

    I dunno what else they could've done given the team on the field and the farm being barren in the upper minors. I liked the way they handled the Sanchez situation by getting input from Gibby and Sanchez, and I'm sure others on the staff and Martin were part of it too.

    I think this offseason and next year is where we'll really see how they work. There werent many question marks this past offseason when they came aboard, more just fine tuning things.

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