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  1. #7351
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    Yeah he was. The writers wouldn't have had much of an argument to keep him out because he would have finished as a top 3 player all time regardless. He gave them the additional ammunition to keep him out once he blew up like a balloon and started putting up video game numbers into his late 30s and early 40s.

    The funny thing is he was blackballed from the game after 2007 as well. He could have still played at that point. He had a 1.045 OPS and led the league in OBP in his final season.
    Top three? Nah. Top 12 or so, sure. Tops.

  2. #7352
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bird of Prey View Post
    Top three? Nah. Top 12 or so, sure. Tops.
    No way dude. Bonds was arguably the best defensive OFer of all time, had the best plate vision/discipline of all time, was an amazing power hitter, could hit for average, had blazing speed, etc. He literally had no weaknesses.
    Last edited by metswon69; 01-27-2022 at 01:09 AM.

  3. #7353
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    If Bonds' stats were legit and he hadn't turned himself into a cyborg in the second half of his career, he'd easily be a top 3 player all time.


    "I was disagreeing with a friend about politics last night. I got so annoyed that I bear-sprayed him and beat him with a flagpole. I was surprised when he objected since we were obviously engaging in legitimate political discourse." - @SarahLongwell25

  4. #7354
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    One thing that can be said about Barry Bonds was that he seldom checked his swing. He was seldom fooled by a pitch. He had the best pitch recognition of anyone I ever saw play. If a pitcher made a good pitch, he would take it and nod at the pitcher. If the pitcher made a mistake, he would hit it hard somewhere. His walk rate was among the highest in the history of the game and he seldom struck out on a bad pitch.
    In short, he was one of the true greats in baseball and will be enshrined eventually.

  5. #7355
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bird of Prey View Post
    Top three? Nah. Top 12 or so, sure. Tops.
    Thanks for the laugh!

  6. #7356
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    Shoeless Joe Jackson needs in. the guy still ranks 3rd in career batting average. out of all the baseball players since 1900 the guy still ranks 3rd. His OBP still ranks 18th and he is still 26th in Triples.

    his last season before getting banned looked like this

    Hits: 218
    2B: 42
    3B: 20
    HR: 12
    RBI: 121
    BB: 56
    SO: 14
    BA: .382
    OBP: .444
    SLG: .589
    OPS: 1.033

    Had he not been banned its crazy to think how high his stats would have went.

  7. #7357
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    Quote Originally Posted by natepro View Post
    Was Clemens known to be bad with the media? I feel like he was pretty well liked for most of his career.

    Either way, though, I think it's a mix of PEDs and his other off-field issues; the BBWA isn't a monolith, as you can see from some of the goofy *** ballots that writers submit. Maybe if he doesn't decide to turn himself into RoboBonds the other off-field issues don't happen too and he's easily in the HoF, but that's not the career he decided to have. I think putting him in the HoF results in a ceremony with everyone there all thinking the same thing and no one saying it, and that's bizarre.

    It's also not really fair to compare Clemens and Bonds to Ortiz the way people have. The only positive test we know about with Ortiz was during the 2003 survey testing, and not only can the MLBPA not tell him what he tested positive for since they were all sealed under court order, but we know there were false positives in with the tests as well, meaning we can't even say for sure if he actually tested positive for anything, and if so what it was.

    He broke a rule that comes with being banned from baseball. In order to stop the investigation he agreed to be banned from baseball. It just seems crazy to me to come to an agreement with the Commissioner's Office regarding something you did, then later decide you don't like what you agreed to and expect everyone to just go along with that.

    I don't know anything about Karl Malone, or basketball in general really, but it just seems strange to me not to hold someone accountable for the things they do when not "at work" simply because they're an athlete.
    I was only speaking about Bonds in regard to the media. I don't know about Clemens. There are plenty of stories about so many people not liking Bonds, whether it was writers, teammates, people in both the Pirates and Giants organization, etc.

    Maybe it is but I'd bet money on the fact that if Bonds had a good rapport with the media and wasn't the detached prick everyone claimed him to be, he's in the HOF already. As for Clemens, I think what's hurt him is the McNamee connection. The fact that the man claimed he injected Clemens with steroids and HGH seems to have always stuck with Roger.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/christi...h=6247d98a7baa

    There's this too.

    I like Ortiz but there's no doubting he was a PED user imo. I mean this is a guy who was a league average hitter in Minnesota who then becomes a 7 time Silver Slugger in Boston. All that during a time where PED use was far more pronounced and he had a teammate who was busted in the same report.

    I get integrity is important. I just don't like the subjective nature of its appropriation. Some athletes can break the rules/make bad choices and suffer no consequences. Others aren't given that same latitude and a lot of it boils down to whether a guy is liked or not.
    Last edited by metswon69; 01-27-2022 at 01:16 AM.

  8. #7358
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    Quote Originally Posted by PackerBum9786 View Post
    Shoeless Joe Jackson needs in. the guy still ranks 3rd in career batting average. out of all the baseball players since 1900 the guy still ranks 3rd. His OBP still ranks 18th and he is still 26th in Triples.

    his last season before getting banned looked like this

    Hits: 218
    2B: 42
    3B: 20
    HR: 12
    RBI: 121
    BB: 56
    SO: 14
    BA: .382
    OBP: .444
    SLG: .589
    OPS: 1.033

    Had he not been banned its crazy to think how high his stats would have went.
    He also OPS'd like 950 or something in the World Series that they lost. If he was trying to throw the games, he was god tier awful at it.


    "I was disagreeing with a friend about politics last night. I got so annoyed that I bear-sprayed him and beat him with a flagpole. I was surprised when he objected since we were obviously engaging in legitimate political discourse." - @SarahLongwell25

  9. #7359
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    Quote Originally Posted by natepro View Post
    He also OPS'd like 950 or something in the World Series that they lost. If he was trying to throw the games, he was god tier awful at it.
    he also hit .375 in the same world series with the only HomeRun and 6 RBIs. the guy wasn't throwing the series.

    I believe he did admit to taking the money but, he said something like someone brought 5k into his room and set it on the dresser and said "here's your cut" and that was about the extent of it

  10. #7360
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    I was only speaking about Bonds in regard to the media. I don't know about Clemens. There are plenty of stories about so many people not liking Bonds, whether it was writers, teammates, people in both the Pirates and Giants organization, etc.

    Maybe it is but I'd bet money on the fact that if Bonds had a good rapport with the media and wasn't the detached prick everyone claimed him to be, he's in the HOF already. As for Clemens, I think what's hurt him is the McNamee connection. The fact that the man claimed he injected Clemens with steroids and HGH seems to have always stuck with Roger.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/christi...h=6247d98a7baa

    There's this too.

    I like Ortiz but there's no doubting he was a PED user imo. I mean this is a guy who was a league average hitter in Minnesota who then becomes a 7 time Silver Slugger in Boston. All that during a time where PED use was far more pronounced and he had a teammate who was busted in the same report.

    I get integrity is important. I just don't like the subjective nature of its appropriation. Some athletes can break the rules/make bad choices and suffer no consequences. Others aren't given that same latitude and a lot of boils down to whether you like a guy or not.
    I feel like you can draw a pretty clear line between guys that are known to have used and guys that are suspected to have used. I don't really think you can punish guys without having some solid evidence pointing to them doing it.

    Ortiz was clearly a different hitter in Boston, but it's not entirely unheard of for that to happen. Jim Edmonds was pretty good in Anaheim/California, his triple slash was .290/.359/.498, but he was clearly better with the Cardinals: .285/.393/.555. Ortiz' difference was a little larger, but both of them added significantly to their OPS and OPS+ when they switched teams.


    "I was disagreeing with a friend about politics last night. I got so annoyed that I bear-sprayed him and beat him with a flagpole. I was surprised when he objected since we were obviously engaging in legitimate political discourse." - @SarahLongwell25

  11. #7361
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack the Ripper View Post
    Spliff calling someone else childish and sad. 🤣
    His "Derp" posts are very mature, aren't they?

    Future Hall of Shamers:
    (1) B.A.L.C.O. Barroids (2) Mark McJuicer (3) Jose Chem-seco (4) Rafael Palmeiroids (5) Ken Chem-initi (6) Jason Gi-andro (7) Ryan Fraud (8) Muscle Melk (9) Woman-Ram (10) Shammy Sosa (11) Roger Clear-mens (12) A-Roid (13) Ryan HGHoward

  12. #7362
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    Quote Originally Posted by natepro View Post
    I feel like you can draw a pretty clear line between guys that are known to have used and guys that are suspected to have used. I don't really think you can punish guys without having some solid evidence pointing to them doing it.

    Ortiz was clearly a different hitter in Boston, but it's not entirely unheard of for that to happen. Jim Edmonds was pretty good in Anaheim/California, his triple slash was .290/.359/.498, but he was clearly better with the Cardinals: .285/.393/.555. Ortiz' difference was a little larger, but both of them added significantly to their OPS and OPS+ when they switched teams.
    Bautista, from Pittsburgh to Toronto, would be a better example.

  13. #7363
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    Quote Originally Posted by PackerBum9786 View Post
    he also hit .375 in the same world series with the only HomeRun and 6 RBIs. the guy wasn't throwing the series.

    I believe he did admit to taking the money but, he said something like someone brought 5k into his room and set it on the dresser and said "here's your cut" and that was about the extent of it
    And he had the highest WPA for the series of any position player on both teams.


    "I was disagreeing with a friend about politics last night. I got so annoyed that I bear-sprayed him and beat him with a flagpole. I was surprised when he objected since we were obviously engaging in legitimate political discourse." - @SarahLongwell25

  14. #7364
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    Quote Originally Posted by dodgerdave View Post
    His "Derp" posts are very mature, aren't they?
    Good to see that the mentally challenged members of this site have a common cause to latch on to.

  15. #7365
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    Quote Originally Posted by spliff(TONE) View Post
    Bautista, from Pittsburgh to Toronto, would be a better example.
    Good call. 91 OPS+ to 136 OPS+.


    "I was disagreeing with a friend about politics last night. I got so annoyed that I bear-sprayed him and beat him with a flagpole. I was surprised when he objected since we were obviously engaging in legitimate political discourse." - @SarahLongwell25

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