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  1. #1
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    Lebron has a choice that begins tonight

    Michael or wilt. You can argue whether he's as impactful as either...

    In the case of the former, the 11 finals are almost an unscalable black eye.

    The latter? Probably already yes, as his career was more Paul Bunyan legend than GOAT material.

    But if Lebron loses, right or wrong, the name Wilt will be more attached to him, as he goes to 2-5 in the finals.

    IMO because Love and kyrie were always overrated, it would take a jordanesque performance for Lebron to win.

    This has to be considered his individual fork in the road though, doesn't it?

  2. #2
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    what?

  3. #3
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    2deep4me

  4. #4
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    Fork in the road? I'm not sure why someone would continue to doubt a 2x champ w/FMVP and 4x regular season MVP.

    Are you really saying this one Finals will make or break the over/underrated scale on his career? Pretty foolish if you ask me.

  5. #5
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    Yep, definitely, Lebron needs to win against one of the best teams NBA history and if he loses he is a choker. I got you bro!
    Miami HEAT

    I only post when it's playoffs time

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by beasted86 View Post
    Fork in the road? I'm not sure why someone would continue to doubt a 2x champ w/FMVP and 4x regular season MVP.

    Are you really saying this one Finals will make or break the over/underrated scale on his career? Pretty foolish if you ask me.
    Unfortunately it is what he is saying and kind of right about it. Perception is reality. Jordan is known as being the ultimate winner because he was so successful as an individual and in a team aspect. Wilt gets knocked as a stat stuffer who couldn't come through as far a team success goes in relation to how good of an individual player he was. Lebron going 3-4 in the finals is a lot different from being 2-5 and one shot away from being 1-6.

    Russell is known as an ultimate team guy that only cared about team success. People say he could have put up Wilt numbers but didn't want to. Is that true? No idea, but his winning that many titles sways the way people perceive him. Lebron has a chance to change the narrative on his career this series. Either be a respectable 3-4 while beating the greatest regular season team in history. Or be 2-5 and people thinking he only made the finals that many times due to the conference he plays in.
    Last edited by DODGERS&LAKERS; 06-02-2016 at 03:17 PM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by DODGERS&LAKERS View Post
    Unfortunately it is what he is saying and kind of right about it. Perception is reality. Jordan is known as being the ultimate winner because he was so successful as an individual and in a team aspect. Wilt gets knocked as a stat stuffer who couldn't come through as far a team success goes in relation to how good of an individual player he was. Lebron going 3-4 in the finals is a lot different from being 2-5 and one shot away from being 1-6.

    Russell is known as an ultimate team guy that only cared about team success. People say he could have put up Wilt numbers but didn't want to. Is that true? No idea, but his winning that many titles sways the way people perceive him. Lebron has a chance to change the narrative on his career this series. Either be a respectable 3-4 while beating the greatest regular season team in history. Or be 2-5 and people thinking he only made the finals that many times due to the conference he plays in.
    The base of your argument is flawed. I've listened to a lot of analysts, former players, and fans, and not many claim Russell was a better individual player than Wilt. I've seen a bunch of top 10 player lists and most have Wilt in the top 3-4, and most don't have Russell there.

    LeBron is not going to be judged solely on the outcome of this Finals.

    Also I'm tired of Lakers fans (because you guys are mostly the ones who keep bringing this up) talking about LeBron being "one shot from 1-6". None of you ever talk about Fisher or Horry or Pau or the number of times Kobe was bailed out while shooting way worse than LeBron did in the game 6. Fact is he is a 2 time champion, period. No asterisk or discredit necessary.

  8. #8
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    If Cavs lose to GS then James being 2-5 in the finals will overshadow his whole career.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by beasted86 View Post
    The base of your argument is flawed. I've listened to a lot of analysts, former players, and fans, and not many claim Russell was a better individual player than Wilt. I've seen a bunch of top 10 player lists and most have Wilt in the top 3-4, and most don't have Russell there.

    LeBron is not going to be judged solely on the outcome of this Finals.

    Also I'm tired of Lakers fans (because you guys are mostly the ones who keep bringing this up) talking about LeBron being "one shot from 1-6". None of you ever talk about Fisher or Horry or Pau or the number of times Kobe was bailed out while shooting way worse than LeBron did in the game 6. Fact is he is a 2 time champion, period. No asterisk or discredit necessary.
    It's only flawed if you look at it between Wilt and Russell. Wilt was more dominant than say a player like Kareem statistically but Kareem is almost unanimously ranked second and Wilt falls behind him. Most of that is due to Kareems winning. If Wilt was 6 for 6 in the finals with his gawdy numbers, you better believe he would be ranked number one overall. Finals record and appearances do sway peoples opinions one way or another. There is no denying that so the logic is not flawed.

    LA Laker fans are not the only ones that bring up LeBron's finals record or the fact that he was one shot away from being 1 and 6. There are just more of us on every board you will ever visit. So 3% of Laker fans bringing it up will seem like more than 20% of Bucks fans bringing it up. Just how it goes.

  10. #10
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    I see what the op is saying he worded it a little confusing but i agree. There is another class of players that are above the elite, the legends. Those who carry the weight of their team when they most need it. When the opposing team makes one guy beat them.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by beasted86 View Post
    The base of your argument is flawed. I've listened to a lot of analysts, former players, and fans, and not many claim Russell was a better individual player than Wilt. I've seen a bunch of top 10 player lists and most have Wilt in the top 3-4, and most don't have Russell there.

    LeBron is not going to be judged solely on the outcome of this Finals.

    Also I'm tired of Lakers fans (because you guys are mostly the ones who keep bringing this up) talking about LeBron being "one shot from 1-6". None of you ever talk about Fisher or Horry or Pau or the number of times Kobe was bailed out while shooting way worse than LeBron did in the game 6. Fact is he is a 2 time champion, period. No asterisk or discredit necessary.
    You kids man. So infatuated with stats and forget about character.

  12. #12
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    he was the best player in the league playing in an eastern conference when the western conference was another league above them in terms of talent. I'm sorry, 2-5 won't have me write off lebron if he loses this year. He's a douche, and I don't like him. But this finals has no more importance to him and his lasting legacy than any other finals appearance so far.

  13. #13
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    If he goes 2-7 in the Finals, we need to reevaluate LeBron's position among the all-time greats. In my opinion, doesn't matter what he does here on out, he's earned a top 10 player of all time label. But if he loses 5 NBA Finals and becomes one of the most skilled losers in NBA lore, I don't think we can continue to ignore that, make excuses, and chalk that up to his inferior teams. Eventually, he's got to be held responsible and accountable for that. And I think it should affect his legacy and ranking to some degree.

  14. #14
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    The base of your argument is flawed. I've listened to a lot of analysts, former players, and fans, and not many claim Russell was a better individual player than Wilt. I've seen a bunch of top 10 player lists and most have Wilt in the top 3-4, and most don't have Russell there.

    Most don't have Russell in the top 10 players of all-time?
    11 NBA titles in 13 years as a pro? The greatest winner in professional sports history...by a mile?
    Da hell lists are you reading?

  15. #15
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    People tend to rank championships way too much for individuals. It matters more HOW they played in a win or loss if you are measuring just the individual.

    Jordan lost a lot earlier than LeBron. But will never have that held against him. Instead, it took him getting his very stacked team as he was entering his prime, and he never looked back. I rank him the best player to ever play, but it's not because of his finals records.

    I did find this interesting: Framing it another way, James is 7-4 in getting to the championship round while Jordan was 6-7.

    One of the reasons I just won't ever have LeBron on Jordan's level is his 2011 Finals play, individually, not because of the teams result. I can't possibly put it against him for losing his first finals as a kid with garbage on his team, and with his 2 best players knocked out last year. The 2011 series haunts him, but it's really the only one that makes me scratch my head.

    Does he need this? For some, yes. But he is already cemented deep into the top 10 all time in my opinion.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

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