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  1. #3046
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Richmond, VA
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    20,741
    Quote Originally Posted by vikingsfan0845 View Post
    I don't think you can blame that on Zimmer. Shurmur and Stefanski were very successful here and took HC jobs. Kubiak was successful. Not much you can do when the guy wants to retire again. John DeFilippo is the only OC who bombed out.
    I think Norv Turner quitting had something to do with Zimmer. Seemed like him and Zimmer could never get on the same page.
    https://orig00.deviantart.net/1dc3/f/2018/078/e/e/cousins_by_matthew998-dc6cc8l.png

  2. #3047
    Join Date
    May 2010
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    11,243
    Quote Originally Posted by vikingsfan0845 View Post
    While you're completely right about our OL and the pass protection issues, I still think we need to throw more. It's already been proven throwing the ball is more efficient and leads to more points. I don't have any problem being a team that relies on defense and a tough running game to win games. Zimmer is a defensive guru so I trust what his mind thinks is a good way to attack defenses. But regardless, to get ahead in games, you're better off throwing the football. The Vikings have never lost a game under Zimmer when leading going into the 4th quarter. He has a great record when scoring 21+ points on offense. We have multiple play makers in the passing game, including Cook. To me, our offense would be most effective running a ton of play action. We were only 27th in pass action % last year and 29th the year before. Play action is already proven to be effective regardless of how effective your run game is so you have to think the Vikings could be/should be one of the best in the NFL every year running play action. Play action had the highest EPA of all offensive plays in 2020. It's becoming the most valuable play. And with Cousins, he's actually not a statue. He's actually kinda mobile and he's really good rolling out. I started to notice in the 2nd half of 2020 Cousins was starting to get better in the pocket and he was even running more. Cousins had a 4 week stretch from week 12 to week 15 where he ran for 97 yards. That's more than he ran for the entire 2019 season. 4 runs of 10 yards or more. He threw 9 TDs in those games. 3 of the 4 we scored 24+ and the only game we didn't was the Dan Bailey debacle. So while our bread and butter will be the wide zone runs with Cook, I think implementing more play action and allowing Cousins to roll out more will help take this offense to another level. Plus with play action your causing the defense to hesitate a moment, which should only help out our OL more and rolling out Cousins eliminates dealing with pressure from coming up the middle, which is our OL's biggest weakness. So basically lets keep the same philosophy we've been going with but throw in a lot more action.
    I agree we need to throw more, we just need to do it creatively. I definitely agree about us running a lot of PA as well. I really really don't understand why we would have been that low it doesn't make sense to me. I have actually been saying since Kirk got here that we need to rely on PA and even sometimes getting him on the move as well (not to run just to buy time). I did notice him run a bit more too, I think it was by design.

    I can basically stop here lol, I agree in full. My point is Zimmer pushing for this style makes sense, we just need to implement some designed PA/rollout passes into it as well for some easy yards and big shots too (do you have our PA numbers with him? I feel like we ran it more).

  3. #3048
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    11,243
    Quote Originally Posted by VCU4LIFEGOVIKS View Post
    I think we may view success differently. For me success isn't making the playoffs and winning one game at most and then getting destroyed in the next game by being underprepared, out coached and out played. I view success by Super Bowls. So I would not consider Mike Zimmer and the Vikings successful.

    Let me ask you this, what would you do to make this team more successful? Would it be to keep doing what we have been doing? Seems like a lot of people here believe that will work.

    I personally think Stefanski is a great coach and he showed it this year. I believe he was hindered by Zimmer when it comes to offensive play calling and that he should probably be our HC. Just like we should have fired Childress and kept Tomlin.
    I view doing that more successful than not making the playoffs at all. There are levels to success. Super Bowl is the obvious and main goal of course.

    No I have said for a while we should have been ditching Kirk and rebuilding the roster a bit. I don't think Stefanski was hindered much at all, our offense thrived with him compared to the others so far. That is arguably the best I have seen Kirk play in his career for a full season, even if he completely stopped in that final game (we had open receivers often that game too). You could make an argument we should have kept him with how he has looked so far, it would have been a risk at the time. Zimmer is a roughly top 10ish coach. If we can get better, I say we do it but I am not sure what top options are looking to come here. We may have missed out on an option, I am not against upgrading him if possible. I don't think he is one of our top issues at the moment but he isn't towards the bottom either.

  4. #3049
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Steubenville, Ohio
    Posts
    18,627
    More stats on play action;

    7 of the top 10 teams in play action attempts made the playoffs. 3 of the 4 are still playing. Bills #2, Chiefs #5, and Packers #9.

    8 of the top 12 in 2019 made the playoffs. The SB had the Chiefs (4th), and the 49ers (12th). The 49ers would be higher if they weren't as run heavy. To better understand their usage of play action, know that Garoppolo executed play action on 30% of his drop backs, only 1 of 2 QBs to clear 30%, meaning the 49ers relied on play action heavily.

    2019 Couins lead the league with 13 play action TDs. He also had a a top 5 passer rating and adjusted yards per attempt on play action.
    2020 Vikings Draft:
    1: Justin Jefferson WR LSU
    1: Jeff Gladney CB TCU
    2: Ezra Cleveland OT Boise State
    3: Cameron Dantzler CB Mississippi State
    4: D.J. Wonnum DE South Carolina
    4: James Lynch DT Baylor
    4: Troy Dye LB Oregon
    5: Harrison Hand CB Temple
    5: K.J. Osborn WR Miami
    6: Blake Brandel OT Oregon State
    6: Josh Metellus S Michigan
    7: Kenny Willekes DE Michigan State
    7: Nate Stanley QB Iowa
    7: Brian Cole S Mississippi State
    7: Kyle Hinton G Washburn

  5. #3050
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Steubenville, Ohio
    Posts
    18,627
    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    I agree we need to throw more, we just need to do it creatively. I definitely agree about us running a lot of PA as well. I really really don't understand why we would have been that low it doesn't make sense to me. I have actually been saying since Kirk got here that we need to rely on PA and even sometimes getting him on the move as well (not to run just to buy time). I did notice him run a bit more too, I think it was by design.

    I can basically stop here lol, I agree in full. My point is Zimmer pushing for this style makes sense, we just need to implement some designed PA/rollout passes into it as well for some easy yards and big shots too (do you have our PA numbers with him? I feel like we ran it more).
    I had to edit my original post because the numbers I posted were wrong. We were 14th in play action attempts last year and 9th the year before. I accidentally posted our passing attempt totals lol Regardless, we should be top 5 every year in play action.
    2020 Vikings Draft:
    1: Justin Jefferson WR LSU
    1: Jeff Gladney CB TCU
    2: Ezra Cleveland OT Boise State
    3: Cameron Dantzler CB Mississippi State
    4: D.J. Wonnum DE South Carolina
    4: James Lynch DT Baylor
    4: Troy Dye LB Oregon
    5: Harrison Hand CB Temple
    5: K.J. Osborn WR Miami
    6: Blake Brandel OT Oregon State
    6: Josh Metellus S Michigan
    7: Kenny Willekes DE Michigan State
    7: Nate Stanley QB Iowa
    7: Brian Cole S Mississippi State
    7: Kyle Hinton G Washburn

  6. #3051
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    11,243
    Quote Originally Posted by vikingsfan0845 View Post
    I had to edit my original post because the numbers I posted were wrong. We were 14th in play action attempts last year and 9th the year before. I accidentally posted our passing attempt totals lol Regardless, we should be top 5 every year in play action.
    Haha ok that makes more sense then lol. I agree though we should be way near the top with our style of play/player and in the top 5. I think you had it right with more roll outs etc and then tons of PA. I am surprised it was only 9th under Stefanski but overall I did think he had our offense looking good and made sure to set up Kirk with time/space. We have incredible weapons in Cook/Jefferson/Thielan and hopefully Smith keeps developing too. Just be creative and get it in their hands a little more via the pass and get cook a few less rushing touches to keep him a bit more fresh too.

  7. #3052
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Steubenville, Ohio
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    18,627
    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    Haha ok that makes more sense then lol. I agree though we should be way near the top with our style of play/player and in the top 5. I think you had it right with more roll outs etc and then tons of PA. I am surprised it was only 9th under Stefanski but overall I did think he had our offense looking good and made sure to set up Kirk with time/space. We have incredible weapons in Cook/Jefferson/Thielan and hopefully Smith keeps developing too. Just be creative and get it in their hands a little more via the pass and get cook a few less rushing touches to keep him a bit more fresh too.
    Our offense should look almost exactly like the 49ers. The basic principles of both offenses date back to the Broncos teams of the late 90s under Mike Shanahan and Kubiak. Kyle Shanahan has modernized it and I'm hoping Klint Kubiak can do the same in Minnesota. Tons of play action, roll outs, screens, etc. We have the personnel to do it.
    2020 Vikings Draft:
    1: Justin Jefferson WR LSU
    1: Jeff Gladney CB TCU
    2: Ezra Cleveland OT Boise State
    3: Cameron Dantzler CB Mississippi State
    4: D.J. Wonnum DE South Carolina
    4: James Lynch DT Baylor
    4: Troy Dye LB Oregon
    5: Harrison Hand CB Temple
    5: K.J. Osborn WR Miami
    6: Blake Brandel OT Oregon State
    6: Josh Metellus S Michigan
    7: Kenny Willekes DE Michigan State
    7: Nate Stanley QB Iowa
    7: Brian Cole S Mississippi State
    7: Kyle Hinton G Washburn

  8. #3053
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    5,717
    It seems like a good time to move on from Zimmer.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


    If you cant beat them, join them

  9. #3054
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Steubenville, Ohio
    Posts
    18,627
    Our DBs coach, Daronte Jones, is interviewing for the DC job with LSU.
    2020 Vikings Draft:
    1: Justin Jefferson WR LSU
    1: Jeff Gladney CB TCU
    2: Ezra Cleveland OT Boise State
    3: Cameron Dantzler CB Mississippi State
    4: D.J. Wonnum DE South Carolina
    4: James Lynch DT Baylor
    4: Troy Dye LB Oregon
    5: Harrison Hand CB Temple
    5: K.J. Osborn WR Miami
    6: Blake Brandel OT Oregon State
    6: Josh Metellus S Michigan
    7: Kenny Willekes DE Michigan State
    7: Nate Stanley QB Iowa
    7: Brian Cole S Mississippi State
    7: Kyle Hinton G Washburn

  10. #3055
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    37,634
    Packers lost. Bummer lol

    Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

  11. #3056
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    South Dakota
    Posts
    15,968
    Quote Originally Posted by goingfor28 View Post
    Packers lost. Bummer lol

    Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk
    If all goes well, not only did the Packers lose, but maybe Erin forces his way out or retires.
    Maybe there CAN be positives from this pandemic!
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

  12. #3057
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Memphis,TN
    Posts
    12,564
    Man I would take Aaron Rodgers in a heartbeat. Yep I said it. I hate Green Bay but respect Aaron Rodgers.


    V4LB-DIMGIM-VCU-CUBBY JOE AND GOINGFOR28

  13. #3058
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    13,604
    Quote Originally Posted by carter80 View Post
    It seems like a good time to move on from Zimmer.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    He just signed an extension so there is zero chance that is happening. Next season could be a make or break year but again, it depends.

  14. #3059
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    13,604
    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    If all goes well, not only did the Packers lose, but maybe Erin forces his way out or retires.
    Maybe there CAN be positives from this pandemic!
    Cap hit is way too high for GB to want to move him. I could see him playing 1 more year there, then going to a team for a year, then going to the Vikings in 2023...oh wait...never mind lol.

  15. #3060
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    13,604
    Quote Originally Posted by vikings4lifebro View Post
    Man I would take Aaron Rodgers in a heartbeat. Yep I said it. I hate Green Bay but respect Aaron Rodgers.
    I'm not real sure who to blame is...is it Rodgers or is it the Packers organization? I suppose it could be a little bit of both but he had chances yesterday.

    2 Super Bowls with 2 HOF QB's (1 being arguably the greatest statistical QB in history) in all honesty is pretty ******. Now, of course it's easier said then done but the fact that Rex Grossman and now Tom Brady have just as many NFC Championships as Rodgers is a shame.

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