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  1. #136
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    Dec 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by GottaBelieve View Post
    No one is disputing the 90 win value this team likely has at present. But why is that good enough? With only $9m of payroll tied up in the top 4 starting pitchers and the stud closer, this team should be able to put together a team that can be predicted to win 100 games.

    Sorry, spin it any way you want to, but the De Aza signing was choosing leftovers as opposed to the full meal. When it comes to FA in baseball, you generally get what you paid for. I'm glad you're thrilled they only had to give a 1 year deal to De Aza - why on earth would anyone give him more? He's a journeyman 4th OFer.

    I'll continue to hold out hope for a better OF than what I see right now for a team that should be 100% committed to doing what it can to strike now and win the World Series.
    I want what you want... a 95-100 win team that can win the World Series. And I partially agree with what you are saying. It is coming from a good place. Having said that, I think you are being blinded by your emotion here. You have to look at it from the other perspective (and not just blame ownership like the NY media is doing). Alderson has said numerous times that big contracts rarely work out. And guess what, he is 100% right. Just look at some of the previous offseasons where many of us wanted Cano, Ellsbury, or Choo. None of those signings would have been worth it for us. I want a 100 win team, but signing Cespedes doesn't get us there. It is very realistic that it only nets us 1 or 2 wins and just isn't worth it for the contract he is demanding, especially when the defensive fit isn't there. Cespedes just had a career season, but that doesn't mean he will repeat it with consistency. And he still had a sub .330 OBP and was not a fit in CF. It wouldn't take much for him to be a bust of a signing. Just think about all of the offseason's where certain teams signed big ticket FA's and think about how many times it delivered them a pennant and/or worked out for them in the long term. It usually doesn't work out and that is not the strategy that Alderson was brought here to employ.

    Signing Cespedes right now is not the magic pill that will take this team from 90 wins to 100 and wins us the World Series. You can't win crap in the offseason. We've seen this unfold several times throughout history. I would like to see us make a big signing in the offseason too, but I won't overreact to it. There is far more to this team than Cespedes. Bottom line is this, this team plans to contend, but they are not going to do it by giving out an albatross contract for a player they don't believe is worth it. We have a great rotation and a deep, heavily underrated roster. And you know what, this FO showed that they are willing to make a splash at the deadline if that's what they need to get over the hump in the short term. I think we should all give this FO the benefit of the doubt here. Anything less than a pennant is a failure, but that doesn't mean we need to sign Cespedes or meet a certain payroll number to do it. All of this complaining is an emotional reaction which is quite common in the offseason and is hyped up even more after last season's bittersweet finish. But, once the season starts it will be ancient history. People are acting like this FO has failed us or that ownership is preventing us from winning. Nonsense... we won't find that out during the offseason. We'll find that out during the actual season when games that are played actually count.

    With veterans like Wright, Grandy, Walker, Duda, Cabrera, De Aza and with young up and comers like TDA, Conforto, Plawecki, Flores, Lagares... we have plenty of positional talent to contend. Don't forget Herrera, Nimmo, Cecchini either. If a midseason trade needs to be made, I'm sure the FO will try to make it happen like they did last season.

    I'm not trying to spin anything though. I agree with the principal of what you are saying, but I also understand that your supposed solution rarely works out as it is supposed to. I want what you want. Thing is, they signed an underrated player (De Aza) who can help us win to a contract I think is well worth it. Excuse me for actually being happy about it. I like good baseball moves that make us better and have very little downside. Worst case scenario is De Aza sucks and gets cut midseason, Lagares starts on a more regular basis, Nimmo probably gets a shot in the big leagues, and/or a trade is explored. Nothing is set in stone. But judging my De Aza's history of consistency vs. RHP, he should help this team and be a solid addition to the roster. I'll be thrilled if they sign Cespedes, just like I would have been thrilled if they signed Choo a couple offseasons ago. You just can't say if it will work out, and usually it just doesn't. I'm just not stuck on Cespedes. Some of you act like he is bigger than the team. He's streaky like the rest of them and was one of our worst players at the tail end of the season/during the playoffs. Just like Duda was really bad a couple of weeks before that. He isn't Andrew McCutchen.
    Last edited by Wrigheyes4MVP; 01-04-2016 at 08:41 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by El Patito View Post
    Wow, you just won't let this go will you? I'd be more than happy to provide the numbers again if you'd like. The fact is that Marmol in his best season, put up one of the greatest performances by a reliever in the history of baseball. Better than Rivera? Youre damn right. You can't deny this.
    Marmolololololol

  2. #137
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
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    44,057
    Quote Originally Posted by swbwtr View Post
    A full year of Conforto, and just a doubling of Wright and d'Arnaud's playing time will get you more than those 20 runs, without adding another OF bat.

    Not having Mayberry helps - addition by subtraction.

    The pitching staff just might give up less runs - no Gee, no Niese; and a full year of Syndergaard and Matz.

    Defensively, we will give up less runs also with Walker and Cabrera up the middle.

    Lagares playing less against righty pitching will be an improvement too.

    And Flores is ample insurance just in case Wright needs a breather, or, God forbid, has to be DL'd again.
    So many ways this season can play out. I don't think Grandy has the kind of year in 2016 he had in 2015. I expect d'Arnaud to be healthier, Wright not so much. Flores and Duda are the wild cards. Looking forward to seeing what Cabrera and Walker can do.

    Would be happier if we still had Cespedes' bat.
    "Ain't got the call no more. Got a lot of sinful idears but they seem kinda sensible...."

  3. #138
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
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    34,377

    Murphy Signs With Washington

    Depth is good, and as long De Aza is depth that's a solid move.

    They could still badly use a better bat for the OF. Grandy isn't likely to get better with age, and neither is Wright. Both will be good, but are risks for regression and injury respectively. Darno, Conforto and Flores should all get better if healthy. Duda probably is what he is. Walker is solid.

    90 wins, yes I can definitely see that. But I also see several solid outfield bats still available in FA that could make this team that much better. Many will sign for 3-4 year deals it seem. Span may only get 1 year (as he should). The Mets need to be in on that action.

    It's not insane to ask this team to take on at least some risk here while the pitching is primed to get us over the top.

    Don't worry. He's got this.

  4. #139
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    Dec 2007
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    If Span can be had for 2 years or less, I'll be dissapointed if we aren't in on him. I would even go 3 years for Span, but admittedly I don't know anything about his medicals and that is what is scaring teams away. So, I can understand why De Aza for 1 year > Span for 3 years. But the truth is, I have my doubts that they will sign Span after already signing De Aza regardless. They serve a similar purpose. Having said that, I still think a trade is possible at some point. I wouldn't rule that out. I don't think this FO is open to giving out a 5 year deal north of $100 mil for any of the available players, but I do think they will be open to a trade.

    If we weren't set in the corner OF, I would be begging for this team to sign Justin Upton right now. Everybody is stuck on Cespedes, but if we needed a LFer, I would have prefered Upton. He's just a far more consistent hitter and is younger as well.
    Last edited by Wrigheyes4MVP; 01-05-2016 at 02:20 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by El Patito View Post
    Wow, you just won't let this go will you? I'd be more than happy to provide the numbers again if you'd like. The fact is that Marmol in his best season, put up one of the greatest performances by a reliever in the history of baseball. Better than Rivera? Youre damn right. You can't deny this.
    Marmolololololol

  5. #140
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Orlando
    Posts
    24,907
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrigheyes4MVP View Post
    If Span can be had for 2 years or less, I'll be dissapointed if we aren't in on him. I would even go 3 years for Span, but admittedly I don't know anything about his medicals and that is what is scaring teams away. So, I can understand why De Aza for 1 year > Span for 3 years. But the truth is, I have my doubts that they will sign Span after already signing De Aza regardless. They serve a similar purpose. Having said that, I still think a trade is possible at some point. I wouldn't rule that out. I don't think this FO is open to giving out a 5 year deal north of $100 mil for any of the available players, but I do think they will be open to a trade.

    If we weren't set in the corner OF, I would be begging for this team to sign Justin Upton right now. Everybody is stuck on Cespedes, but if we needed a LFer, I would have prefered Upton. He's just a far more consistent hitter and is younger as well.
    Gordon too


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