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  1. #61
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    On phone so no links. Qb pressure is not a official nfl stat so results may vary. Espn article for 2013 had tannehill with the 3rd most pressures behind wilson and 1 other qb. I think it was matt ryan. Miami no doubt has had bad lines that have been a factor on sacls, bit on my opinion tannehill poor pocket awarenesshas also been a factor on his sack total.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plague View Post
    On phone so no links. Qb pressure is not a official nfl stat so results may vary. Espn article for 2013 had tannehill with the 3rd most pressures behind wilson and 1 other qb. I think it was matt ryan. Miami no doubt has had bad lines that have been a factor on sacls, bit on my opinion tannehill poor pocket awarenesshas also been a factor on his sack total.
    No doubt but I was just making the case about the line being poor in relation to his deep ball issues. I firmly believe that the o-line issues play a big part in his deep ball issues. Like I said before, try backpedaling and throwing a ball accurately to a guy running 30-40 yards away from you or while a guy is basically bumping into you while you throw.

    Even with Mike Wallace's speed...still takes him 4-5 seconds to beat his man and get that far down field. I can probably count on one hand how many times Tanne has had 5+ seconds standing comfortably in the pocket in his 3 years in MIA

    ****...in 5 seconds, my grandma can beat Dallas Thomas, Tyson Clabo, J-Mart, or John Jerry for a sack twice in that time

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plague View Post
    On phone so no links. Qb pressure is not a official nfl stat so results may vary. Espn article for 2013 had tannehill with the 3rd most pressures behind wilson and 1 other qb. I think it was matt ryan. Miami no doubt has had bad lines that have been a factor on sacls, bit on my opinion tannehill poor pocket awarenesshas also been a factor on his sack total.
    Here some stats to look over.

    Miami's Oline.
    2012: 135 pressures allowed (22nd overall)
    2013: 194 pressures allowed (11th overall)
    2014: 210 pressures allowed (1st overall)

    Tannehill.
    2012: Took a sack on 21% of pressured plays (T-3rd highest)
    2013: Took a sack on 26% of pressured plays (#1 highest)
    2014: Took a sack on 18% of pressured plays (11th highest)


    So the line has gotten worse and worse the past two seasons but Tannehill did improve last season.

    And to show that his line does not give him aton of time.

    Average time to sack top 5.
    Tom Brady - 2.92
    Peyton Manning - 2.93
    Matt Ryan - 3.09
    Ryan Tannehill - 3.15
    Kyle Orton - 3.18

    Just to give you an idea who hold onto the ball too long.

    Average time to throw top 2
    Russel Wilson - 3.10
    Geno Smith - 3.10

    So on average last season those two where just throwing the ball at the time Tannehill was getting sacked.
    Last edited by Wrench; 05-22-2015 at 06:15 PM.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrench View Post
    Here some stats to look over.

    Miami's Oline.
    2012: 135 pressures allowed (22nd overall)
    2013: 194 pressures allowed (11th overall)
    2014: 210 pressures allowed (1st overall)

    Tannehill.
    2012: Took a sack on 21% of pressured plays (T-3rd highest)
    2013: Took a sack on 26% of pressured plays (#1 highest)
    2014: Took a sack on 18% of pressured plays (11th highest)


    So the line has gotten worse and worse the past two seasons but Tannehill did improve last season.

    And to show that his line does not give him aton of time.

    Average time to sack top 5.
    Tom Brady - 2.92
    Peyton Manning - 2.93
    Matt Ryan - 3.09
    Ryan Tannehill - 3.15
    Kyle Orton - 3.18

    Just to give you an idea who hold onto the ball too long.

    Average time to throw top 2
    Russel Wilson - 3.10
    Geno Smith - 3.10

    So on average last season those two where just throwing the ball at the time Tannehill was getting sacked.
    I think your reasoning is too simple by saying everything is on the OLINE.

    Everyone on here was talking how much better the Oline was last season yet your trying to say this oline is the worst Dolphins Oline. When it comes to pressure is it because of the Oline? How much does the WR not getting open or the QB being too conservative a factor in pressure? It's way too subjective, its not even a official NFL stat, it's based on someone watching the game and deciding if its 3 or 4 seconds before the QB has pressure.

    How often do you see Russell Wilson create more time in the pocket? How much of that average time to throw is thanks to Russell Wilson and not thanks to the OLINE? Russell Wilson does a incredible job maximizing his time in the pocket. Yes he does hold on to the ball a long time, but he also creates a lot of plays because he knows how to avoid pass rushers and give himself more time to make plays..

    How often do you see Ryan Tannehill create more time in the pocket? First guy that gets near Tannehill nails him.

    You know what the top 5 in sacks you mentioned have in common when it comes to sacks, they are all statues in the pocket. None of those guys are elusive when it comes to pressure.
    Last edited by Plague; 05-22-2015 at 10:08 PM.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by whitekimbo View Post
    No doubt but I was just making the case about the line being poor in relation to his deep ball issues. I firmly believe that the o-line issues play a big part in his deep ball issues. Like I said before, try backpedaling and throwing a ball accurately to a guy running 30-40 yards away from you or while a guy is basically bumping into you while you throw.

    Even with Mike Wallace's speed...still takes him 4-5 seconds to beat his man and get that far down field. I can probably count on one hand how many times Tanne has had 5+ seconds standing comfortably in the pocket in his 3 years in MIA

    ****...in 5 seconds, my grandma can beat Dallas Thomas, Tyson Clabo, J-Mart, or John Jerry for a sack twice in that time
    I came into this off season trying to avoid the Tannehill debate until regular season games started.. I don't think he is very good, nothing between now and the regular season is going to change my opinion. If he starts playing how I think a NFL QB should play then I will change my mind, but that is not going to happen in the off season.

    You, Wrench, Sparky, etc, etc are not going to change your opinions. I only got into this conversation because pop shots were basically taken at me and my opinion about a QB I have said I don't think is very good and in the process my name was dragged into it. We can either spend the next 3 months rehashing the same arguments about Tannehill that none of us are going to change our opinions, or we can discuss other areas of the Dolphins and wait until games are actually played so we can see if either side changes our mind. As of now I think Tannehill is a young Kyle Orton, I hope he improves and changes my opinion, but as of now none of you guys are going to post any stats that will change my opinion, only games going forward may change or reinforce my opinion.
    Last edited by Plague; 05-22-2015 at 10:09 PM.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plague View Post
    I think your reasoning is too simple by saying everything is on the OLINE.

    Everyone on here was talking how much better the Oline was last season yet your trying to say this oline is the worst Dolphins Oline.

    The line was vastly improved until Albert went down and other guys did not play well. To that point Tannehill was only sacked a handful of times and ended up being sacked 31 times.


    When it comes to pressure is it because of the Oline? How much does the WR not getting open or the QB being too conservative a factor in pressure? It's way too subjective, its not even a official NFL stat, it's based on someone watching the game and deciding if its 3 or 4 seconds before the QB has pressure.
    A pressure is a pressure, its the line breaking down before a throw is ready to be made. Not every play is the same and not all take the same time, this is why it isn't an "NFL" stat. Many a places show pressures as a stat, and its easy to see once you watch the film and as a said see the line break down before the throw is ready to be made.

    How often do you see Russell Wilson create more time in the pocket? How much of that average time to throw is thanks to Russell Wilson and not thanks to the OLINE? Russell Wilson does a incredible job maximizing his time in the pocket. Yes he does hold on to the ball a long time, but he also creates a lot of plays because he knows how to avoid pass rushers and give himself more time to make plays..

    How often do you see Ryan Tannehill create more time in the pocket? First guy that gets near Tannehill nails him.
    Wilson does create some extra time, doesn't mean he doesn't hold onto the ball too long either though. He will just run out of the pocket when it does break down. As will RG3, Newton and Kaepernick as well. All three being guys who like to run. I like the fact Tannehill isn't one of these, he stays in the pocket and makes the play.

    You know what the top 5 in sacks you mentioned have in common when it comes to sacks, they are all statues in the pocket. None of those guys are elusive when it comes to pressure.
    There three of the best QBs in the league and all know how to move around in the pocket to buy them more time to get the ball down field. The best QBs in the league don't run out of the pocket to make a play they stay as long as they can to do so.

    Also there is not one NFL QB that meets your criteria for a good NFL QB. Must complete every deep ball, must never take a sack, must be able to extend a play for an eternity. Am I close? This what you normally describe in what you want Tannehill to do anyways.
    Last edited by Wrench; 05-22-2015 at 10:49 PM.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plague View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by whitekimbo View Post
    No doubt but I was just making the case about the line being poor in relation to his deep ball issues. I firmly believe that the o-line issues play a big part in his deep ball issues. Like I said before, try backpedaling and throwing a ball accurately to a guy running 30-40 yards away from you or while a guy is basically bumping into you while you throw.

    Even with Mike Wallace's speed...still takes him 4-5 seconds to beat his man and get that far down field. I can probably count on one hand how many times Tanne has had 5+ seconds standing comfortably in the pocket in his 3 years in MIA

    ****...in 5 seconds, my grandma can beat Dallas Thomas, Tyson Clabo, J-Mart, or John Jerry for a sack twice in that time
    I came into this off season trying to avoid the Tannehill debate until regular season games started.. I don't think he is very good, nothing between now and the regular season is going to change my opinion. If he starts playing how I think a NFL QB should play then I will change my mind, but that is not going to happen in the off season.

    You, Wrench, Sparky, etc, etc are not going to change your opinions. I only got into this conversation because pop shots were basically taken at me and my opinion about a QB I have said I don't think is very good and in the process my name was dragged into it. We can either spend the next 3 months rehashing the same arguments about Tannehill that none of us are going to change our opinions, or we can discuss other areas of the Dolphins and wait until games are actually played so we can see if either side changes our mind. As of now I think Tannehill is a young Kyle Orton, I hope he improves and changes my opinion, but as of now none of you guys are going to post any stats that will change my opinion, only games going forward may change or reinforce my opinion.
    Well I mean this is a forum and we're in a Tannehill thread......

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plague View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrench View Post
    Here some stats to look over.

    Miami's Oline.
    2012: 135 pressures allowed (22nd overall)
    2013: 194 pressures allowed (11th overall)
    2014: 210 pressures allowed (1st overall)

    Tannehill.
    2012: Took a sack on 21% of pressured plays (T-3rd highest)
    2013: Took a sack on 26% of pressured plays (#1 highest)
    2014: Took a sack on 18% of pressured plays (11th highest)


    So the line has gotten worse and worse the past two seasons but Tannehill did improve last season.

    And to show that his line does not give him aton of time.

    Average time to sack top 5.
    Tom Brady - 2.92
    Peyton Manning - 2.93
    Matt Ryan - 3.09
    Ryan Tannehill - 3.15
    Kyle Orton - 3.18

    Just to give you an idea who hold onto the ball too long.

    Average time to throw top 2
    Russel Wilson - 3.10
    Geno Smith - 3.10

    So on average last season those two where just throwing the ball at the time Tannehill was getting sacked.
    I think your reasoning is too simple by saying everything is on the OLINE.

    Everyone on here was talking how much better the Oline was last season yet your trying to say this oline is the worst Dolphins Oline. When it comes to pressure is it because of the Oline? How much does the WR not getting open or the QB being too conservative a factor in pressure? It's way too subjective, its not even a official NFL stat, it's based on someone watching the game and deciding if its 3 or 4 seconds before the QB has pressure.

    How often do you see Russell Wilson create more time in the pocket? How much of that average time to throw is thanks to Russell Wilson and not thanks to the OLINE? Russell Wilson does a incredible job maximizing his time in the pocket. Yes he does hold on to the ball a long time, but he also creates a lot of plays because he knows how to avoid pass rushers and give himself more time to make plays..

    How often do you see Ryan Tannehill create more time in the pocket? First guy that gets near Tannehill nails him.

    You know what the top 5 in sacks you mentioned have in common when it comes to sacks, they are all statues in the pocket. None of those guys are elusive when it comes to pressure.
    So Plague's "eye test" is the most important factor but some else's is "subjective"

    Lol got it.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by whitekimbo View Post
    So Plague's "eye test" is the most important factor but some else's is "subjective"

    Lol got it.
    I will never except that the all mighty eye test of two or three of our members is wrong.................OHHH wait they paid Tanny I guess we may have to start basing his stats on reality and team numbers. We a;; know Tanny had a **** line the last few years, lets hope it doesn't continute.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by whitekimbo View Post
    Well I mean this is a forum and we're in a Tannehill thread......
    Then don't moan about it later. You got all pissed off about it before and started blocking people.
    Last edited by Plague; 05-23-2015 at 04:08 AM.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrench View Post
    The line was vastly improved until Albert went down and other guys did not play well. To that point Tannehill was only sacked a handful of times and ended up being sacked 31 times.




    A pressure is a pressure, its the line breaking down before a throw is ready to be made. Not every play is the same and not all take the same time, this is why it isn't an "NFL" stat. Many a places show pressures as a stat, and its easy to see once you watch the film and as a said see the line break down before the throw is ready to be made.



    Wilson does create some extra time, doesn't mean he doesn't hold onto the ball too long either though. He will just run out of the pocket when it does break down. As will RG3, Newton and Kaepernick as well. All three being guys who like to run. I like the fact Tannehill isn't one of these, he stays in the pocket and makes the play.



    There three of the best QBs in the league and all know how to move around in the pocket to buy them more time to get the ball down field. The best QBs in the league don't run out of the pocket to make a play they stay as long as they can to do so.

    Also there is not one NFL QB that meets your criteria for a good NFL QB. Must complete every deep ball, must never take a sack, must be able to extend a play for an eternity. Am I close? This what you normally describe in what you want Tannehill to do anyways.
    That where we differ. My criteria is winning and how we get there. Your more concerned about average per whatever. I just don't get what positives you guys see in Tannehill. Your always defending him but what are the positives? What is it you like about him? It's not like every play he is on his back, there are plays he gets time. What does he do on those plays that you like? I see a QB that regardless of pressure he doesn't create time in the pocket, he is like a deer in headlights when a rusher is coming in on him, he never shakes off a tackler, he can't throw the ball down field well, he doesn't do well in the clutch, when its 3rd and 8 I personally have little confidence he is going to throw the ball 8 yards down field for a completion, I don't have confidence he is going to get the ball at the 20 yard line and take the team down field for a game winning TD, he rarely makes something out of nothing, if the play is going to collapse you can forget Ryan Tannehill making a play. The only thing that he does well in my opinion is play fakes, and he can only take advantage of it when running because he can't hit a WR in stride. I see nothing that he does that any other mobile weak armed QB can't do. I just don't see the excitement of Ryan Tannehill, he seems like a QB that is scared to throw the ball down field because he is too inaccurate, he overthrows because he is afraid to throw a INT. Enlighten me what it is about Tannehill that you like that your average QB can't do? Tannehill reminds me exactly of a young Kyle Orton.
    Last edited by Plague; 05-23-2015 at 04:13 AM.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by whitekimbo View Post
    So Plague's "eye test" is the most important factor but some else's is "subjective"

    Lol got it.
    What is the difference? Is it because I don't rate each play between a plus 2 and negative 2? If I did that and then add up the numbers would it no longer be considered a eye test? Would it now be considered something much better?

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plague View Post
    That where we differ. My criteria is winning and how we get there. Your more concerned about average per whatever. I just don't get what positives you guys see in Tannehill. Your always defending him but what are the positives? What is it you like about him? It's not like every play he is on his back, there are plays he gets time. What does he do on those plays that you like? I see a QB that regardless of pressure he doesn't create time in the pocket, he is like a deer in headlights when a rusher is coming in on him, he never shakes off a tackler, he can't throw the ball down field well, he doesn't do well in the clutch, when its 3rd and 8 I personally have little confidence he is going to throw the ball 8 yards down field for a completion, I don't have confidence he is going to get the ball at the 20 yard line and take the team down field for a game winning TD, he rarely makes something out of nothing, if the play is going to collapse you can forget Ryan Tannehill making a play. The only thing that he does well in my opinion is play fakes, and he can only take advantage of it when running because he can't hit a WR in stride. I see nothing that he does that any other mobile weak armed QB can't do. I just don't see the excitement of Ryan Tannehill, he seems like a QB that is scared to throw the ball down field because he is too inaccurate, he overthrows because he is afraid to throw a INT. Enlighten me what it is about Tannehill that you like that your average QB can't do? Tannehill reminds me exactly of a young Kyle Orton.
    Your frist sentence in this is why you have issues here. The win-loss record is not a QB stat. Tannehill was not the issue last season the defence was.

    I've show you stats upon stats on why he is a soild top 15 QB but all I ever get from you is your eye test whitch about every scout, real scouts, disagree with you.

    He had the best QB season in a Miami Dolphin uniform since Marino and your still *****ing.

  14. #74
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    Plague people take 'shots' at you because you put yourself out there with ridiculous comments. You have hated on the Tanny pick since day one. No amount I stats or commentator praise or scouts evaluation is going to change your mind. The fact I Tanny I the best we have had in 20 years and EVERY coach in the division would trade us their QB for ours today if they had the chance.... And I do mean every.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrench View Post
    Your frist sentence in this is why you have issues here. The win-loss record is not a QB stat. Tannehill was not the issue last season the defence was.

    I've show you stats upon stats on why he is a soild top 15 QB but all I ever get from you is your eye test whitch about every scout, real scouts, disagree with you.

    He had the best QB season in a Miami Dolphin uniform since Marino and your still *****ing.
    I am not blaming all the loses on Tannehill. You want to back scouts about Tannehill, well I don't care about physical skills or potential if he can't produce. Most coaches will tell you stats are for losers. When I say it comes to winning you only hear what you want to hear, my quote is "the only thing that matters is winning and how we get there." What does Tannehill contribute to the win column that another average QB can't do?. I think his inaccuracies, his poor pocket awareness, and his tendency to check down all the time contribute to losing more than anything he brings to the table.

    You guys keep defending Tannehill, how about telling me what does Tannehill do that you actually like about him.

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