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  1. #1
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    Hamilton back- to the Rangers?

    This is interesting and very risky for JD.


    I do not know the terms or who he has traded but it could be a significant trade off of a big contract.

    Any thoughts? I have several

  2. #2
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    I am hearing now 3 for 15 and no trade. Angels pick up 68 million and Rangers 15. Choo still on team unfortunately.

  3. #3
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    I was hoping we could dump Choo, but this makes a ton of sense. I think Hamilton can rebuild his career here. He won't be an MVP candidate, but still a good bat at LOW cost

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by waveone View Post
    This is interesting and very risky for JD.


    I do not know the terms or who he has traded but it could be a significant trade off of a big contract.

    Any thoughts? I have several
    From what I'm hearing, Rangers get Hamilton and pick up a little less than $15mm of his salary. Angels eat the rest. Texas will send no players back, just "future considerations".

    Rangers outfield is a nightmare, especially with Choo providing zero value on offense or defense. Hamilton is far gone from his MVP days, but at less than $5mm a year he'd be a cheap risk to take. And if he does start hitting, he could be an excellent piece of trade bait down the road.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by harlequin018 View Post
    From what I'm hearing, Rangers get Hamilton and pick up a little less than $15mm of his salary. Angels eat the rest. Texas will send no players back, just "future considerations".

    Rangers outfield is a nightmare, especially with Choo providing zero value on offense or defense. Hamilton is far gone from his MVP days, but at less than $5mm a year he'd be a cheap risk to take. And if he does start hitting, he could be an excellent piece of trade bait down the road.
    zookman/halequin- you hear correctly. That is the sum of the deal with no Choo, sadly enough. Choo has been a disaster for the FO, one of several very poor decisions and this would have given them an opportunity to undo that. Yet it won't happen

    The risk is Hamilton's behavior and influence in the clubhouse. That potential is their and it could be damaging to younger players and morale as a whole. However, my opinion is Hamilton coming here may be of great benefit to him and therefore the team.

    LA was NOT the place for him and he was clearly unhappy there. This could just possibly breathe some life into his game. We'll see

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Young2Kinsler View Post
    I was hoping we could dump Choo, but this makes a ton of sense. I think Hamilton can rebuild his career here. He won't be an MVP candidate, but still a good bat at LOW cost
    Really? No, it doesn't unless you are the Rangers, which I assume you meant. This is the only team, that would do this under great risk in the hope of benefitting from the intangible. Which as was stated , that his career is faltering in LA which was a bad decision by him, possibly his wife. Texas could be the answer for new life

  7. #7
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    Not 15 mil, but less than 7! Texas is robbing LA, thanks Arte

    http://rangersblog.dallasnews.com/20...ton-deal.html/

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Young2Kinsler View Post
    Not 15 mil, but less than 7! Texas is robbing LA, thanks Arte

    http://rangersblog.dallasnews.com/20...ton-deal.html/
    Robbing them? As I stated earlier Texas is the only team that would do this at the moment and probably the only team in which it would work considering past history.

    LA clearly wants nothing to do with him and this is addition by subtraction. It is not a question of Arte's foolishness nor the shrewdness of .....your boy JD. It is a matter of practicality.

    Texas if nothing else gets press and some measure of draw out of Josh Hamilton. The rest of this is pure speculation right now. Although I like the potential, both the upside and downside could be explosive.

    we'll see
    Last edited by waveone; 04-25-2015 at 04:39 PM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by waveone View Post
    Robbing them? As I stated earlier Texas is the only team that would do this at the moment and probably the only team in which it would work considering past history.

    LA clearly wants nothing to do with him and this is addition by subtraction. It is not a question of Arte's foolishness nor the shrewdness of .....your boy JD. It is a matter of practicality.

    Texas if nothing else gets press and some measure of draw out of Josh Hamilton. The rest of this is pure speculation right now. Although I like the potential, both the upside and downside could be explosive.

    we'll see
    Currently, the average value for 1 WAR on the free agent market is a little over $5mm. Even when Hamilton was pretty bad for the Angels, he has never had a WAR less than 1.5. So if he just plays like he has been, he will cover the entire value of the contract in a season.

    I think the Rangers recognized that Arte Moreno was done with Josh and it became increasingly obvious that he would never take the field as an Angel again. The Rangers took this opportunity, combined it with the state income tax relief, and got a decent player at a major discount (for another team to pull this off, they would have to offer over $15mm towards a major question mark). I guarantee you, there are probably a dozen teams that would be interested in Hamilton if the cost was less than $2mm a season.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by waveone View Post
    zookman/halequin- you hear correctly. That is the sum of the deal with no Choo, sadly enough. Choo has been a disaster for the FO, one of several very poor decisions and this would have given them an opportunity to undo that. Yet it won't happen

    The risk is Hamilton's behavior and influence in the clubhouse. That potential is their and it could be damaging to younger players and morale as a whole. However, my opinion is Hamilton coming here may be of great benefit to him and therefore the team.

    LA was NOT the place for him and he was clearly unhappy there. This could just possibly breathe some life into his game. We'll see
    Choo isn't playing well, but his BABIP of .138 is one of the lowest numbers in the league. Nothing about his stats say decline, so we will see if the bad luck will simply stabilize. I can't, however, justify his play in the field. He is just plain bad.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by harlequin018 View Post
    Currently, the average value for 1 WAR on the free agent market is a little over $5mm. Even when Hamilton was pretty bad for the Angels, he has never had a WAR less than 1.5. So if he just plays like he has been, he will cover the entire value of the contract in a season.

    I think the Rangers recognized that Arte Moreno was done with Josh and it became increasingly obvious that he would never take the field as an Angel again. The Rangers took this opportunity, combined it with the state income tax relief, and got a decent player at a major discount (for another team to pull this off, they would have to offer over $15mm towards a major question mark). I guarantee you, there are probably a dozen teams that would be interested in Hamilton if the cost was less than $2mm a season.
    First- go ahead and name half of them then show me where there was interest in him- I'll wait

    Second- you prove my point about how stupid strict sabermetrics are when used as the primary model for a team. His WAR, BABIP OBP ad infinitum is pointless if his B R A I N is dysfunctional his ATTITUDE is DOA and his HEART is AWOL.

    There is some sabermetrics of mine I use to gauge teams. In either case this is a draw ticket for the Rangers FO because they have FAILED thus far.

    Choo- last I checked he was touted as a better fielder than Cruz and a more consistent at- bat which was why they took him and at a heavy price. To use your analogy a dozen other teams probably more would not have taken that trade at probably half that price because of his perceived decline.

    Fielder- he has become a great singles hitter which is not what you look for in a DH.

    We can continue but that is pointless. The play is evident on the field for everyone to see and the score board never lies.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by waveone View Post
    First- go ahead and name half of them then show me where there was interest in him- I'll wait

    Second- you prove my point about how stupid strict sabermetrics are when used as the primary model for a team. His WAR, BABIP OBP ad infinitum is pointless if his B R A I N is dysfunctional his ATTITUDE is DOA and his HEART is AWOL.

    There is some sabermetrics of mine I use to gauge teams. In either case this is a draw ticket for the Rangers FO because they have FAILED thus far.

    Choo- last I checked he was touted as a better fielder than Cruz and a more consistent at- bat which was why they took him and at a heavy price. To use your analogy a dozen other teams probably more would not have taken that trade at probably half that price because of his perceived decline.

    Fielder- he has become a great singles hitter which is not what you look for in a DH.

    We can continue but that is pointless. The play is evident on the field for everyone to see and the score board never lies.
    EDIT In any case let's hope this is a shot in the arm for Texas and for Josh. They both need it
    Last edited by waveone; 04-26-2015 at 03:20 PM.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by waveone View Post
    First- go ahead and name half of them then show me where there was interest in him- I'll wait

    Second- you prove my point about how stupid strict sabermetrics are when used as the primary model for a team. His WAR, BABIP OBP ad infinitum is pointless if his B R A I N is dysfunctional his ATTITUDE is DOA and his HEART is AWOL.

    There is some sabermetrics of mine I use to gauge teams. In either case this is a draw ticket for the Rangers FO because they have FAILED thus far.

    Choo- last I checked he was touted as a better fielder than Cruz and a more consistent at- bat which was why they took him and at a heavy price. To use your analogy a dozen other teams probably more would not have taken that trade at probably half that price because of his perceived decline.

    Fielder- he has become a great singles hitter which is not what you look for in a DH.

    We can continue but that is pointless. The play is evident on the field for everyone to see and the score board never lies.
    1. Don't be childish. Private conversations between GMs are just that, private. His on the field value exceeds his costs so a team will do its due diligence and check in.

    2. I don't disagree with you, Hamilton is a manchild. However, he's a very talented manchild that can still contribute with his immense physical tools despite his limitations in the head. There's no doubt that those things hold him back, but the on field performance that sabermetrics measures is a composite of all of the factors that make a baseball player. You can't measure "attitude" numerically by itself, but its a piece that helps determine WAR.

    3. Choo is a slightly better fielder than Cruz. He takes better angles and plays a little smarter. Cruz has a bigger arm. They both cover roughly the same amount of ground. But they are both pretty bad when compared to the average right fielder.

    4. Fielder's OPS this year is .910. His career average? .910. Yea, his slugging is down about 40 points, but you're talking about 70 at bats after a missed season. Is he hitting 50 home runs again? No. But can you see him hitting 35? I can. Fielder is the only guy on the team making consistent hard contact. By the way, Ian Kinsler's OPS is .756 hitting in front of one of the best hitters in the majors.

  14. #14
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    I'm thrilled to get Hamilton. He won't be the MVP Hamilton but at $2m / year for 3 years he'll more than pay his way. Hamilton is noted as a great clubhouse guy both in LA and his 5 years in Texas. He isn't a negative distraction. He will be a shot in the arm for this team.

    Choo's numbers as a leadoff last year in Texas was fantastic. Anywhere else in the lineup it was terrible. Put Choo in the leadoff for 10 games and he would be back to normal. I know it's quirky but so is Choo.

    So, this would be my suggested lineup:

    Choo, Martin, Fielder, Beltre, Hamilton, Moreland, Andrus, Chirinos, Odor.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by texassooner View Post

    So, this would be my suggested lineup:

    Choo, Martin, Fielder, Beltre, Hamilton, Moreland, Andrus, Chirinos, Odor.
    Whoa - murderers row - This lineup may not be able to hit for average but at least they wont have power.

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