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  1. #1
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    The "End Of The Season Now Here is What We Need to Do in Off-Season" Venting Thread

    Begin.

    #iubb

  2. #2
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    Paul George, George Hill, CJ Miles, Ian Mahinmi, Solomon Hill, and Damjan Rudez are the only Pacers signed for 2015-2016. Roy Hibbert and David West both have player options. Hopefully, both decline their options, realistically, neither will. Re-sign Lavoy Allen to a contract. Trade either David West or Roy Hibbert to whatever team willing to take their "one-year" deals; maybe collect another first round pick and add youthful depth. Sign Greg Monroe, DeAndre Jordan, LaMarcus Aldridge (pipe dream). Draft Myles Turner (F/C, Texas), Sam Dekker (SF, Wisconsin). Mostly, the Pacers need to add length and depth at the forwards, center position.

  3. #3
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    I think Roy is going to opt in...he would be dumb not to unless he really wants out. West to me is a coin flip...was this year too frustrating, is he too old to move and likes it here? I don't really know on West at all.

    I really like the idea of moving Ian for a role player and letting Lavoy take that backup center spot. We won't get much, but could fill another hole like backup point guard. That will probably be a wash salary wise. If west doesn't opt in it leaves us thin on big men, but Scola and Allen could come back cheap to fill out the bench. If we think that Rudez could man that backup 3 spot...I could see us packaging Solo and Ian into something at least pretty decent. Some team is always willing to overpay for a young athletic defensive wing and a big and Solo having a big time upside could net us something at lest somewhat valuable around the 6 million dollar or less price range.

    In the draft I would love Kaminsky to come in at the PF position if he hasn't played himself too high. He has both an inside and outside game on offense and the size to slide to center against more mobile/smaller centers that Roy has problems with next year. He is the kind of guy that Larry likes...fundamentally sound 4 year player who was a hard worker and went from a guy that wasn't really hearraleded to a top player in the NCAA, plus he can play multiple positions and roles. He is at least a pretty decent rebounder (if not better) plus a lot of other things we need, at this point he may be better than west day one skill wise with more size, more range, and more energy...and if the plan is to let Roy walk when his contract is up, then we are getting a post player that fits more in Vogel's offense than Roy does at either the 4 or 5 and a great fit going forward. Kaminsky may not have as high of a ceiling as some players like at least most of the the 10 guys from KY and Duke leaving among others like Looney...but his floor is probably higher than anyone else's in the draft.

    Give me a starting 5 of G hill, Stucky (hopefully signing back) or Miles, PG, Kaminsky, and Roy with a bench of Miles, Rudez, Allen, Scola, and a couple players to be named and I would be pretty excited. You have floor spacing with Miles, PG, Kaminsky, Rudez, and Hill...you have ability to get in the lane with PG, G Hill, and Stucky. You have post defense with Roy, Lavoy, Kaminsky, and Scola is more of a frustrating defender than a shut down guy....If West stays add him to the list there maybe don't worry about Scola...but honestly West's salary is a problem if both he and Roy opt in limiting our options for those players to be named later. If we don't move Ian and Solo add them into the mix off the bench.

    I know a lot of our direction hinges on West and Roy's decision...but no matter what we need to get at least one guy who will be the starter after they are gone..be it this or next year.

  4. #4
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    I'm still collecting my thoughts before I post my end of the year rant, but unfortunately I have a very very hard time seeing David West and Roy Hibbert playing with any other team next season. Both will opt - in, and assuming we get back to our winning ways I don't see Larry/Donnie willing to trade either of them despite the expiring deal.

    #iubb

  5. #5
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    Pray for a miracle in lottery and draft D'Angelo Russell, or trade whatever needed to get him, future firsts don't care. he is a can't miss and best player in draft. Team is a couple years away, hibbert is useless, west has seen his better days so let those contracts expire and get to work.

  6. #6
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    If they can get anything for solomon hill take that as well. no use for him

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by buck4493 View Post
    Pray for a miracle in lottery and draft D'Angelo Russell, or trade whatever needed to get him, future firsts don't care. he is a can't miss and best player in draft. Team is a couple years away, hibbert is useless, west has seen his better days so let those contracts expire and get to work.
    A lot of the knocks I've seen on Russel are serious things that make great college players (especially guards) turn into average joes at the next level. Things like not an elite athlete, problems finishing in transition, relies on his 6'9" wingspan instead of moving his feet on defense too much...and one of the things that scares me the most is "problems changing speed." If you aren't a great athlete, you must have a change of speed to be able to get by defenders in the NBA...even the great athletes utilize this move to take it to the next level.

    One of the breakdowns I saw had him at about 43% shooting 33% from 3 against teams .500 or better and was at 55% and 47% against lesser competition...that isn't even against elite talent, just better teams. So he dips in shooting 10% or more against good players or at least players he couldn't just sit back and kill them with his size and reach.

    This is a big man draft and either a PF or C IMO should be the only things we look at. We have a Combo point that has proven his worth and more this year and an All NBA SF that isn't going anywhere. We need bigs that can compete in Vogels offense. With or without Roy or West, we have to be looking at at least a replacement for one if not both to be on the roster by tip off next year. Where we pick (barring a top 3) there could be 3-6 quality bigs to choose from. Kaminsky, Looney, Lyles, Turner etc...I also don't know anything about that guy from Latvia, but he could be around as well.

  8. #8
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    Let's send Roy Hibbert to the circus for an elephant.

    #iubb

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacquewho? View Post
    I'm still collecting my thoughts before I post my end of the year rant, but unfortunately I have a very very hard time seeing David West and Roy Hibbert playing with any other team next season. Both will opt - in, and assuming we get back to our winning ways I don't see Larry/Donnie willing to trade either of them despite the expiring deal.
    Here is my thoughts on why I think West may be the one not to opt in.

    -Larry and Donnie could talk him in to not picking up his option and still coming back at a lesser contract and hopefully a lesser role that will allow him to play for 20 minutes or so at full strength rather than get beaten down as a starter for the season. This is best case since if he took something like Scola has been getting we save about 8 million and could go a long way to improving.

    -Also a big selling point could be the possibility of a trade with his expiring contract...if they tell him they could possibly move him for the right return, would he rather pick his own spot as a FA or would he rather take his chances? He could be moved in a Grangerish move to a team that wants to dump cap and spend the end of next season on a bottom dweller. I guess he could be bought out if that happens...but I think West would rather control his destination and be there for the year rather than just being shopped then bought out then try to seek a team and fit in mid season.

    -West didn't look happy last year...PG coming back may change that, but he just had that look like he wanted no part of being here.

    -West wants a ring, he may look at his contract and what we have signed and realize with his age, with the 12 million he is getting paid that he can't come back without hurting the teams ability to compete. So I guess this could go along with not picking up his option and still coming back or it could be him just ready to move on.

    As far as Roy goes, I don't see any way he doesn't pick up his option. I don't care how much you hate your job or your living situation, if you know you can get your current salary and stay in the area you have lived in for a while now...or you can get paid most likely half what you are making with a move to a new city and get a fresh start...that is a no brainer. You stay that one more year and you tough it out. After that you look for the move because you may not have a choice.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacquewho? View Post
    Let's send Roy Hibbert to the circus for an elephant.
    The big problem with moving Roy is that we have to find another team that has 15 million worth of salary space for him (not likely) or more what would happen a team that signed 15 million worth of players they don't want....and them knowing the price plus the fit aren't here, we aren't going to get a 15 million all star. We are going to get offered a few players on longer contracts they don't want. Putting him with someone like Solo might make a team or two interested, but the problem is still what do we take back and does it hurt us more than having Roy?

    Also just finding a trade partner in that situation isn't going to be easy. Most teams that are in that reset situation have already set themselves up with expiring contracts after next year with cap dump trades the past 2....so unless we get some bad signings around the league or a team goes all out and replaces a couple positions and needs to clear out their current starters, I don't see a huge market for a 15 million expiring contract...and if those signings are that bad, Roy on his last year is still probably a better option than the steaming pile of 15million worth of trash we would take back, since no matter what anyone says, he is still a top 10 and probably top 5 rim protector. I think Roy's contract was an expiring contract a year or two too late to make that move as teams have been dumping future cap the past 2 and now are in a let them expire holding pattern.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by matthollabak View Post
    A lot of the knocks I've seen on Russel are serious things that make great college players (especially guards) turn into average joes at the next level. Things like not an elite athlete, problems finishing in transition, relies on his 6'9" wingspan instead of moving his feet on defense too much...and one of the things that scares me the most is "problems changing speed." If you aren't a great athlete, you must have a change of speed to be able to get by defenders in the NBA...even the great athletes utilize this move to take it to the next level.

    One of the breakdowns I saw had him at about 43% shooting 33% from 3 against teams .500 or better and was at 55% and 47% against lesser competition...that isn't even against elite talent, just better teams. So he dips in shooting 10% or more against good players or at least players he couldn't just sit back and kill them with his size and reach.

    This is a big man draft and either a PF or C IMO should be the only things we look at. We have a Combo point that has proven his worth and more this year and an All NBA SF that isn't going anywhere. We need bigs that can compete in Vogels offense. With or without Roy or West, we have to be looking at at least a replacement for one if not both to be on the roster by tip off next year. Where we pick (barring a top 3) there could be 3-6 quality bigs to choose from. Kaminsky, Looney, Lyles, Turner etc...I also don't know anything about that guy from Latvia, but he could be around as well.
    Break him down all you want he is the best player in the draft. Would not be suprised at all if he ends up going #1

  12. #12
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    Of course Roy will opt in, what moronic team would pay him half of what he is making. He isn't a starter in the NBA

  13. #13
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    The salary cap is projected to jump $22M to $89M in 2016-2017. This team is a few years away no matter what moves you make, so if both Roy and Davis choose not to opt out, then I say you just ride it out and go into next off-season with close to $50 to spend.

    GHill, PG, Miles, Stuckey, Rudez, Allen, Solo are a part of the future. I see Solo filling a sort of Tony Allen type role so I would like to keep him around.

    You have to get a quality big in this draft. Kaminsky to me is the most complete big in the draft, but there are plenty of others to choose from as well. This draft is so deep that the second round pick will probably be able to contribute next year.

    One thing is for sure. It's time to spread the floor and give PG room to work! Then you add the missing pieces after West and Roy are off the books and the cap skyrockets.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by buck4493 View Post
    Of course Roy will opt in, what moronic team would pay him half of what he is making. He isn't a starter in the NBA
    Say what you want...but he is still at top 10...and more like top 5 rim protector in the league, and most of the reason he doesn't look like a starter in the NBA is that Vogel doesn't know how to use a Post center in his offense. Roy hasn't helped with shooting, but he is also being asked to do a lot of things he isn't good at on a daily basis....like receive the ball at the FT line or further.

    They put Roy on the smaller faster PF and West on the stronger C...and then wonder why we are getting bullied inside against teams like Wash. Well Roy isn't going to be able to chase (and shouldn't be asked to chase) stretch 4s like I constantly see them asking him to do.

    Roy at half his current salary is a steal for the defense alone.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by buck4493 View Post
    Break him down all you want he is the best player in the draft. Would not be suprised at all if he ends up going #1
    I hope he does...because we won't have that pick. We need big men...not guards that probably should have stayed at least one more year. Even if he is the best player in the draft (which he is not) with the highest ceiling....he doesn't fill a need and doesn't make sense as a pick unless I guess he does fall to our pick then he may be a value worth picking and trading.

    I remember you saying Sullinger was going to be an all star and one of the best PFs in the league day one...I just see you as a homer for OSU and want anyone from there because you have blinders on. Which is fine, but Russell isn't the end all combo guard that you think he is. He is a combo guard that isn't ready to lead a team as their point, and doesn't shoot well enough to be a great 2 guard at the NBA range against players who have his size or more. So pump him up all you want...because he may very well not be a top 5 talent in the draft....and to even show that talent level he may be 3+ years out best case. He isn't a terrible player, and will probably turn out to be a pretty solid player, but I just don't see the super star you seem to think he is.

    I would say a GM that passed up Okafor and Towns to pick Russel should be fired on the spot....so needless to say I would be extremely shocked if he went number 1....and unless that HS kid that played in China screws up something between now and the draft...Russell will probably be the 2nd behind him or maybe 3rd guard taken depending on if someone wants to take a shot on the 6'8" guard from Croatia..
    Last edited by matthollabak; 04-20-2015 at 01:36 PM.

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