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  1. #781
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuySir View Post
    wait, so you said all that to ultimately agree with me?
    The fact that we improved this offseason - yes.


    Swinging for the fences, you seem to think yes.

    I am saying no.

    Obviously it takes two to tango when talking about trades. I've listened to several guys on Sirius / XM regarding CP3 - yes, they don't know everything - but the general consensus on Paul is OKC would like to trade him sooner than later and are looking for expirings and some help. A couple have even said OKC would attach a pick to get rid of the contract

    The main thing is, are we better with CP3 replacing Reggie, Snell & Galloway? Yes. Is the money worth it? Probably. Reggie - if we don't resign him next summer - will cost us to get a PG to have a mini big 3 with Dre, Blake and ___?

    If Durant had not gotten hurt and stayed with GS and if Kawhi had signed with the Lakers, I would advise against making the trade for CP3. But with him, and with who we have, we have a puncher's chance of ECF and from there, who knows.

    And when Durant comes back next season - assuming he can play at a high level - our current make up puts us behind the Nets, or at best, on par.

    The signings we have done make us better, but Snell was a gift from Mil and I'm not sold on Morris.

  2. #782
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    Quote Originally Posted by markbutter View Post
    The fact that we improved this offseason - yes.


    Swinging for the fences, you seem to think yes.

    I am saying no.
    It's important to point out that this team probably won't be good enough to win it all with or without CP3, so my definition of "swinging for the fences" isn't defined by whether or not I think we can win it all, it's predicated on what Gores and management feel will make us better.

    If we're not giving in, then we're going all in

  3. #783
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuySir View Post
    It's important to point out that this team probably won't be good enough to win it all with or without CP3, so my definition of "swinging for the fences" isn't defined by whether or not I think we can win it all, it's predicated on what Gores and management feel will make us better.

    If we're not giving in, then we're going all in


    "If we're not giving in, then we're going all in" So IOW, you're happy with the participation trophy. I'm not.


    We have an opportunity - very small, because two/tango - to trade Reggie, Snell & Galloway for CP3. You seem to think that we would not be improved. Because using your definition "not giving in, we're all in" would not apply. Because if it does, then you either agree with the trade (i.e., it makes us better) or you don't agree with the trade (because not giving in is going all in - i.e., it wouldn't make us better).

    Which one is it?

  4. #784
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    Quote Originally Posted by markbutter View Post
    "If we're not giving in, then we're going all in" So IOW, you're happy with the participation trophy. I'm not.


    We have an opportunity - very small, because two/tango - to trade Reggie, Snell & Galloway for CP3. You seem to think that we would not be improved. Because using your definition "not giving in, we're all in" would not apply. Because if it does, then you either agree with the trade (i.e., it makes us better) or you don't agree with the trade (because not giving in is going all in - i.e., it wouldn't make us better).

    Which one is it?
    yeah we're not communicating very well, you are once again taking my interpretation of management's moves as my personal beliefs. I'm not saying I'm personally happy with a "participation trophy", I'm saying that Gores and company are sticking to their guns with this roster under the idea that adding CP3 could push the team over the top. I don't personally believe that will be the case, but the team doesn't want to cede at this point, they added Rose, Morris, Snell, and would consider CP3 because THEY feel that's enough to go for it. I don't know if that'll be a good enough roster, even in the east, to compete.
    Last edited by GuySir; 07-16-2019 at 10:39 PM.

  5. #785
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuySir View Post
    yeah we're not communicating very well, you are once again taking my interpretation of management's moves as my personal beliefs. I'm not saying I'm personally happy with a "participation trophy", I'm saying that Gores and company are sticking to their guns with this roster under the idea that adding CP3 could push the team over the top. I don't personally believe that will be the case, but the team doesn't want to cede at this point, they added Rose, Morris, Snell, and would consider CP3 because THEY feel that's enough to go for it. I don't know if that'll be a good enough roster, even in the east, to compete.
    I took your original statement of "going all in" to mean exactly that. Sure, we've improved from last season. And without doing anything, I think we would be better with a year's experience for Brown and Luke.

    I firmly believe Milw made the trade to dump Leuer - which they did - rather than improve their team. Because with Snell vs. Leuer, they were better with Snell. It was purely a financial decision and we were able to accommodate and improve ourselves basketball wise vs. money wise.

    I like the signing of Rose- but he's not the game changer that you think he is - i.e., going all in. He brings a different game than Ish.

    Are we a better team over the next 3 years with CP3 in place of Reggie, Snell & Galloway? Yes. Using round numbers, Reggie - if he stays healthy this season will command 15M. Galloway - 5-8 on the open market but for sake of argument, let's say 5. Snell is due 12M this and next. That's 32M to resign those guys if we want. Paul is due ~10M more. Is he, in replacement of those 3 worth 10M more? I think he puts us - in the next 3 years - further ahead than those 3. The, "we'll sign someone better than Reggie/Galloway" really isn't an option because we're close to the cap and can only resign them to go over. People complained about the Bradley/Harris trade for Blake and the money. At the time I said it would cost ~30M to resign both if not 35M. I didn't think at the time Bradley would fall off as far as he has. But the bottom line is we're a better team with Blake than those two - especially given the money thrown at them.

    All I am saying is we're a better team with CP3 than with Reggie/Snell/Galloway now, next season and the season after - and for several years after that if we were to resign those guys. It's about talent now and flexibility in 3 years, when both Blake and CP3 contracts would be up. And in light of that, you swing for the fences now and give yourself a punchers chance this season and next. And in year 3, figure out if Dre' is the guy you want to resign and build around at that point.

  6. #786
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    Quote Originally Posted by markbutter View Post
    I like the signing of Rose- but he's not the game changer that you think he is - i.e., going all in. He brings a different game than Ish.
    again with this? cmon man

  7. #787
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    the bottom line is we're both arguing in favor of acquiring CP3 so I don't understand the discord

  8. #788
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuySir View Post
    the bottom line is we're both arguing in favor of acquiring CP3 so I don't understand the discord
    We have a different opinion of Rose. He does bring more than Ish. A scorer's mentality that can go for 25-30 on any given nights. Those nights are less than before due to age/injury, but the ability is there vs. Ish.


    I haven't seen you discuss acquiring CP3. I haven't seen you make the point or agree with me about acquiring him for Reggie/Snell/Galloway. And IIRC, one of your points was how we were going all in by acquiring Snell for Leuer. If that's going all in, I haven't seen you discuss trading him as part of a package.


    Your initial point was this offseason shows the pistons going all in thus far. I'm saying all in means going for broke. Push all the chips to the table and you either come out on top (or in our case a contender for the ECF for the next 2-3 seasons) and the alternative is sitting at the table and continue playing hoping for a better hand. In this case, a talent like Paul is available and we possibly have what the other team is looking for - in this case expiring contracts.


    I'm believe we won't resign Reggie so that puts us on the lookout for a PG next season - assuming Luke or Brown don't take that over. From that possibility, CP3 is an upgrade obviously, but the contract is the contract, regardless. OKC supposedly doesn't want to trade picks to unload Paul's contract. A trade of:

    CP3 & Muscala

    Reggie/Snell/Galloway/Maker


    Is within ~200K, so I assume it would work. Muscala can back up Blake and is a better 3 pt shooter than Maker. Maker doesn't impress me thus far.


    Regardless of what happens, in 2-3 years it's either blow up time or short resigning. If we could bring in Paul with the understanding that the last year - IIRC, a player option - he doesn't take it, then the deal has to be done. But he won't do that, just to get out from OKC. Again, unless I've misread any of your posts, I haven't seen you argue in favor of acquiring Paul.

  9. #789
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    this is literally the very first thing I said about the idea of CP3, I brought it up:

    Quote Originally Posted by GuySir View Post
    alright, so thankfully we didn't get Russ, did CP3 get bought out? Is he a lock to the Lakers? I'd honestly rather him reunite with Blake than have Russ here. With Russ it would've been an offense of "let RW chuck up some junk and have Blake or Dre rebound, then start offense from there", just like OKC did with Adams. With CP3 we'd have "Detroit Lob City" with Paul and Blake back together and Dre as a younger, better Jordan

    Doubt it happens, but after signing all the vets to show that we're playing for NOW, why not?

    Ahh who am I kidding, he's going to the LA
    the whole "going all in" thing was about acquiring CP3 because we've shown we're playing for now by not rebuilding and not selling, we sign vets as if we're a contender, so if we see ourselves as a contender we'd go for CP3. That's why I said we were having some kinda miscommunication because you were simultaneously telling me I was wrong and then writing up a diatribe backing me. It was confusing and now I see why, you thought "going all in" meant just Rose, Snell, and Morris, while I was saying the acquisitions of those players shows we're playing for now so to go all in, since that's what we've indicated, would be to try for CP3

    ugh, glad we got that cleared up (hopefully)

  10. #790
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuySir View Post
    this is literally the very first thing I said about the idea of CP3, I brought it up:



    the whole "going all in" thing was about acquiring CP3 because we've shown we're playing for now by not rebuilding and not selling, we sign vets as if we're a contender, so if we see ourselves as a contender we'd go for CP3. That's why I said we were having some kinda miscommunication because you were simultaneously telling me I was wrong and then writing up a diatribe backing me. It was confusing and now I see why, you thought "going all in" meant just Rose, Snell, and Morris, while I was saying the acquisitions of those players shows we're playing for now so to go all in, since that's what we've indicated, would be to try for CP3

    ugh, glad we got that cleared up (hopefully)

    All's cool.

    So you'd make the Reggie/Galloway/Snell for CP3 trade?

    Saw where we signed C. Wood. Obviously 10-12 mins per night backing up Dre when Blake or Thon don't match up.

    Should be an interesting season. Plus, I think a lot of teams during FA signed guys just to sign guys before someone else did and then realized the parts don't fit too well. Should be an interesting deadline.

  11. #791
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    Quote Originally Posted by markbutter View Post
    All's cool.

    So you'd make the Reggie/Galloway/Snell for CP3 trade?

    Saw where we signed C. Wood. Obviously 10-12 mins per night backing up Dre when Blake or Thon don't match up.

    Should be an interesting season. Plus, I think a lot of teams during FA signed guys just to sign guys before someone else did and then realized the parts don't fit too well. Should be an interesting deadline.
    I'd make that trade for sure, as long as Blake and Chris are cool and willing to play together in Detroit. I'm not as worried as most about the CP3 decline since athleticism doesn't seem to be his forte.

    It's risky because health and attitude seem to be his problem, and health is Blake's problem, too, but if we're gonna go for it, might as well go for it, especially if OKC plans to attach a 1st. It won't be one of THEIR firsts though lol, which is a bummer, we'd likely pick up one of the Houston 1sts, but still, it's another lottery ticket

    It doesn't seem like there are any takers for him, so if we can convince him Detroit can make a run with him, and he buys in, I'm all for it

  12. #792
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuySir View Post
    I'd make that trade for sure, as long as Blake and Chris are cool and willing to play together in Detroit. I'm not as worried as most about the CP3 decline since athleticism doesn't seem to be his forte.

    It's risky because health and attitude seem to be his problem, and health is Blake's problem, too, but if we're gonna go for it, might as well go for it, especially if OKC plans to attach a 1st. It won't be one of THEIR firsts though lol, which is a bummer, we'd likely pick up one of the Houston 1sts, but still, it's another lottery ticket

    It doesn't seem like there are any takers for him, so if we can convince him Detroit can make a run with him, and he buys in, I'm all for it


    Agree 1000%

  13. #793
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    Now we've signed Beasley, what are we doing? lol, Going all in!

    https://www.detroitbadboys.com/2019/...ame-suspension

  14. #794
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuySir View Post
    Now we've signed Beasley, what are we doing? lol, Going all in!

    https://www.detroitbadboys.com/2019/...ame-suspension
    i've seen this tale before. 04

  15. #795
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    Quote Originally Posted by rocket View Post
    i've seen this tale before. 04
    Beasley and Sheed are pretty much the same guy right?

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