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Thread: Tom Brady

  1. #496
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    Quote Originally Posted by mgjohnson7851 View Post
    No need to have this conversation with you again... Especially when you say things like Manning "Usually has the better team." That's completely homer and disregards the fact that Brady has had a top ten defense for virtually his entire career... Something that Manning had only a couple of times. And surely it must have been nice to have the greatest HC of all time for your entire career instead of getting bogged down with awful coaches like Jim Caldwell and John Fox.

    Anyways, I'm not going down this rabbit hole again. Neither of us is going to change the way we think, and so it's a pointless conversation.
    The myth goes that Brady had the better D and Manning the better O. Brady's O's have outscored Mannings, and the through the end of Mannings career because of some of the Denver D's and later 00's Colts teams - the overall D ratings are very similar.

    Brady's D's from '05-'14 were not very good, take a look.

    Plus you never penalize Manning for playing in so many more good weather games - or give Brady points for not.
    I am not a con artist! I am a businessman! I have a big brain and I'm good at making deals! People are just jealous of my BIG BRAIN! BAD!

    Guess who? The future X-Presdent...

  2. #497
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    Better defense? Indy was #1 in offensive spending from '00 - '07, that's where they saw value, don't blame Brady for that.

    Last 10 years of both careers (not including injury years) scoring rank on D:

    PM: 2, 23, 1, 7, 8, 23, 4, 22, 16, 4 = 11 ave rank

    TB: 5, 8, 15, 9, 10, 8, 10, 1, 5, 7 = 7 ave rank

    TB's better on average, but, only 1 finish under 5, PM had 4 of them.

    Earlier it favors Brady, but '03-04 are the only elite years. In '02 and '05 they were 17th.

    Read the long post on Manning, it's damning, and the stats and setting are all facts.
    I am not a con artist! I am a businessman! I have a big brain and I'm good at making deals! People are just jealous of my BIG BRAIN! BAD!

    Guess who? The future X-Presdent...

  3. #498
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    I don’t think perception ever evolved with Brady and Manning in regards to their defense. From 01 to 04 hell yeah Brady had better defenses. But for the rest of their careers I’d say Peyton had it on average. I think we forget how terrible some of those NE defenses were. They really struggled to get that right for a while.


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  4. #499
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    Better defense? Indy was #1 in offensive spending from '00 - '07, that's where they saw value, don't blame Brady for that.

    Last 10 years of both careers (not including injury years) scoring rank on D:

    PM: 2, 23, 1, 7, 8, 23, 4, 22, 16, 4 = 11 ave rank

    TB: 5, 8, 15, 9, 10, 8, 10, 1, 5, 7 = 7 ave rank

    TB's better on average, but, only 1 finish under 5, PM had 4 of them.

    Earlier it favors Brady, but '03-04 are the only elite years. In '02 and '05 they were 17th.

    Read the long post on Manning, it's damning, and the stats and setting are all facts.
    wow, dont ******** to exaggerate your point.

    saying PM had 4 top 4 defenses compared to bradys 1 when if you move the number up to top 5 finishes and PM still had 4 while brady made 3.

    it's slimy **** like that that makes you look incredibly biased and misleading

    and what happens if you move it to top 10 finishes? manning has 6, while *gasp* brady has 7

    or what happens when you ask who had defenses rank outside the top 15? PM at 3, tom brady at...what is this? 0????? that cant be!

    I dont even like manning, I just hate when I see arbitrary cut offs to try to make your point better
    Last edited by basch152; 10-10-2019 at 01:38 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by NormSizedMidget View Post
    It's different now than it was.

    When he won the second one, Giants fans are here we're outside of their minds.
    That quote always cracks me up.

  5. #500
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    Quote Originally Posted by basch152 View Post
    wow, dont ******** to exaggerate your point.

    saying PM had 4 top 4 defenses compared to bradys 1 when if you move the number up to top 5 finishes and PM still had 4 while brady made 3.

    it's slimy **** like that that makes you look incredibly biased and misleading

    and what happens if you move it to top 10 finishes? manning has 6, while *gasp* brady has 7

    or what happens when you ask who had defenses rank outside the top 15? PM at 3, tom brady at...what is this? 0????? that cant be!

    I dont even like manning, I just hate when I see arbitrary cut offs to try to make your point better
    Yeah those numbers don't really help his point at all. Just looking at them it's pretty easy to conclude Brady had better defenses the 10 years he's referencing. He also never had an actual bad defense during that time whereas Peyton played with 3.

  6. #501
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    Patriots defensive DVOA in their Super Bowl season;

    2001 - 13
    2003 - 2
    2004 - 7
    2007 - 11
    2011 - 30
    2014 - 12
    2016 - 16
    2017 - 31
    2018 - 16

    If 30th in 2011 and 31st in 2017 don't quality as "bad defenses" I don't know what to tell you.
    Did you even watch the Super Bowl against Philadelphia?

    Along with points allowed, DVOA gauges a number of defensive factors; yardage allowed, turnovers, opposing time of possession, third-down efficiency. Clearly Brady's defenses have not been as good as some here have been suggesting. Belichick's defensive philosophy going back to the Giants is bend-but-don't-break. He'll give up yardage but the focus has always been on the Red Zone and holding a team to three points.
    Last edited by rc33; 10-10-2019 at 04:01 PM.

  7. #502
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    ^ That's funny because I distinctly remember in the 2017 season before the Super Bowl all the Patriots fans were talking about how their defense was so much better than the numbers would indicate.
    Last edited by QB_Eagles; 10-10-2019 at 08:32 PM.

  8. #503
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    Quote Originally Posted by QB_Eagles View Post
    ^ That's funny because I distinctly remember in 2017 before the game all the Patriots fans were talking about how their defense was so much better than the numbers would indicate.
    Shhhhhh....

  9. #504
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    Quote Originally Posted by QB_Eagles View Post
    ^ That's funny because I distinctly remember in the 2017 season before the Super Bowl all the Patriots fans were talking about how their defense was so much better than the numbers would indicate.
    A lot better than 31st doesn’t mean you’re good lol

    Historically they’ve usually been better to end the year than to start. They’ve had a lot of seasons with crappy personnel. So they take a while until BB figured it out to at least bandage it up and make them alright. So even in the years where they rank near the bottom of the league I’d say they’re better than those numbers indicate but obviously still not great.


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  10. #505
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    Quote Originally Posted by rc33 View Post
    Patriots defensive DVOA in their Super Bowl season;

    2001 - 13
    2003 - 2
    2004 - 7
    2007 - 11
    2011 - 30
    2014 - 12
    2016 - 16
    2017 - 31
    2018 - 16

    If 30th in 2011 and 31st in 2017 don't quality as "bad defenses" I don't know what to tell you.
    Did you even watch the Super Bowl against Philadelphia?

    Along with points allowed, DVOA gauges a number of defensive factors; yardage allowed, turnovers, opposing time of possession, third-down efficiency. Clearly Brady's defenses have not been as good as some here have been suggesting. Belichick's defensive philosophy going back to the Giants is bend-but-don't-break. He'll give up yardage but the focus has always been on the Red Zone and holding a team to three points.
    Well it's important to note that the Patriots lost both those Superbowls. So if your point is Brady is winning titles with bad defenses, apparently he's not.

  11. #506
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Well it's important to note that the Patriots lost both those Superbowls. So if your point is Brady is winning titles with bad defenses, apparently he's not.
    Thanks for letting me know what my point was. As it is, that 2011 Pats defense was total garbage. If you wanna make the case that they weren't a bad D, have at it.
    I know they gave up more yardage than that 0-16 Detroit Lions team and were 32nd ranked all season 'til that crazy 45-41 Green Bay/Detroit Week 17 game where one of 'em fell to last. The fact that New England came within a Welker drop of winning the SB that year was a monumental achievement. Also an indictment of Pgh and Baltimore; teams with light years better defenses that still couldn't keep 'em from winning the conference.

  12. #507
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    Quote Originally Posted by hugepatsfan View Post
    I don’t think perception ever evolved with Brady and Manning in regards to their defense. From 01 to 04 hell yeah Brady had better defenses. But for the rest of their careers I’d say Peyton had it on average. I think we forget how terrible some of those NE defenses were. They really struggled to get that right for a while.
    Have to agree with you on that. Just wanted to say that before I ever knew anything about the sport, Tom Brady was the only person I ever recognized. But after getting acquainted with it, i gotta say manning’s defense stats is waayyyy better. The guy’s retired and Brady's still trying to break his records.

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