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View Poll Results: Does Kobe winning rings as a second option to Shaq tarnish his legacy?

Voters
33. You may not vote on this poll
  • Without question.

    16 48.48%
  • Kobe didn't need Shaq, nor does it affect his legacy.

    17 51.52%
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Results 46 to 60 of 297
  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by LakersEaglesLA View Post
    2000 playoffs Shaq 30.1 Kobe 21.1, 2001 playoffs Shaq 30.4 Kobe 29.4, 2002 playoffs Shaq 28.5 Kobe 26.6, 2003 playoffs Kobe 32.1 Shaq 27.0 So get the hell outta hell! Sorry (I had to get that off my chest)
    Scoring is not everything. Once you add in the other stats that go along, its evident that Shaq dominace destroys anything that Kobe was doing out there.
    D. Rob gives Hakeem 40/16/7/4
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_RP3SvZ4O8
    D. Rob gives Alonzo 52/14/7
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-NRWNX7Z7Y
    D. Rob gives the Pistons 34/10/10/10
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkpT0QdUDIY
    D. Rob gives the Clippers 71/14
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ck4KXAydlkE
    D. Rob gives Shaq 36/13/7/6
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XivZd3mRVw
    D. Rob gives Ewing 45/16
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8Ddm9WVzjA
    IF YOU DON"T KNOW, NOW YOU KNOW

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by IKnowHoops View Post
    Oh yeah on his own, like in game 7 of that last chip when he shot 6 for 24 from the field and got the W because he did it on his own. Man who's the last player to shoot 25% from the field and win on his own? Nevermind Gasol averaging 20/11 with a 24 PER. Those are crap numbers.
    Saying on his own probably was more in the context of the thread, meaning without shaq. There were people questioning if he could do it as the first option/leader and his last two rings disproved the idea he couldn't.

  3. #48
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    Laughing. Out. Loud. First and last comment.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by IKnowHoops View Post
    Oh yeah on his own, like in game 7 of that last chip when he shot 6 for 24 from the field and got the W because he did it on his own. Man who's the last player to shoot 25% from the field and win on his own? Nevermind Gasol averaging 20/11 with a 24 PER. Those are crap numbers.
    1 game. Anyways if you're going to add the 19/11 gasol averaged don't forget kobes 29/8 series average

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    Saying on his own probably was more in the context of the thread, meaning without shaq. There were people questioning if he could do it as the first option/leader and his last two rings disproved the idea he couldn't.
    I feel that, but I don't think playing second fiddle to Shaq tarnished his legacy at all. I just disagreed with that statement. And I disagree that the statement verifies his legacy. His game is his game with or without enough talent around it to win a ring.
    D. Rob gives Hakeem 40/16/7/4
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_RP3SvZ4O8
    D. Rob gives Alonzo 52/14/7
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-NRWNX7Z7Y
    D. Rob gives the Pistons 34/10/10/10
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkpT0QdUDIY
    D. Rob gives the Clippers 71/14
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ck4KXAydlkE
    D. Rob gives Shaq 36/13/7/6
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XivZd3mRVw
    D. Rob gives Ewing 45/16
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8Ddm9WVzjA
    IF YOU DON"T KNOW, NOW YOU KNOW

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by jerellh528 View Post
    1 game. Anyways if you're going to add the 19/11 gasol averaged don't forget kobes 29/8 series average
    No doubt, Kobe was Kobe. But my only point was that he didn't do anything on his own. Yes without Shaq, but def not on his own. He and Gasol had the basically the same PER in the playoffs that year.
    D. Rob gives Hakeem 40/16/7/4
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_RP3SvZ4O8
    D. Rob gives Alonzo 52/14/7
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-NRWNX7Z7Y
    D. Rob gives the Pistons 34/10/10/10
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkpT0QdUDIY
    D. Rob gives the Clippers 71/14
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ck4KXAydlkE
    D. Rob gives Shaq 36/13/7/6
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XivZd3mRVw
    D. Rob gives Ewing 45/16
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8Ddm9WVzjA
    IF YOU DON"T KNOW, NOW YOU KNOW

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by IKnowHoops View Post
    No doubt, Kobe was Kobe. But my only point was that he didn't do anything on his own. Yes without Shaq, but def not on his own. He and Gasol had the basically the same PER in the playoffs that year.
    I think in his own was taken out of context. I'm betting the poster meant, out of shaqs shadow. Of course no title was ever won on a player's own.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by jerellh528 View Post
    I think in his own was taken out of context. I'm betting the poster meant, out of shaqs shadow. Of course no title was ever won on a player's own.
    I get that. But as a huge Drob fan and Spurs fan. Kobe seemed like more of a monster during his time with Shaq. He had guys on skates trying to guard him. He gave the Spurs tons of trouble. He was the dot on the I's and the cross on the T's. Dealing with Shaq was a life and death struggle every time down as he was like a tank against soldiers. Then you had Kobe as that assassin who would just add insult to injury in Shaqs aftermath. The combo was impossible to deal with when Kobe played his position.
    D. Rob gives Hakeem 40/16/7/4
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_RP3SvZ4O8
    D. Rob gives Alonzo 52/14/7
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-NRWNX7Z7Y
    D. Rob gives the Pistons 34/10/10/10
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkpT0QdUDIY
    D. Rob gives the Clippers 71/14
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ck4KXAydlkE
    D. Rob gives Shaq 36/13/7/6
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XivZd3mRVw
    D. Rob gives Ewing 45/16
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8Ddm9WVzjA
    IF YOU DON"T KNOW, NOW YOU KNOW

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by LakersEaglesLA View Post
    Just because Shaq got the Finals MVP's does not mean Kobe was second fiddle. Go back and watch those Western Conference Playoffs rounds 1,2,and 3 Kobe was a killer. He bailed the Lakers out so many 4th quarters it's not even debatable.. The Championship was much easier than the Western Playoffs where Kobe would have been the Lakers MVP
    WATCH... I remember those ones. Shaq was constantly doubled and still killed. Kobe had a lot of open shots and did amazing too.

    Lets look at those series. Which ones do you give to Kobe in the WCF? Not the first year. Shaq was a lot better in that one.

    2nd year? Shaq and Kobe were close. Granted anyone who actually saw that knows Shaq had Tim Duncan and David Robinson double teaming him and constantly going after him while Kobe faced the trouble of a 35 year old Steve Kerr and a 37 year old Terry Porter. No way Kobe's winning that one. LA doesn't win without both of them, but I don't even think they come close in any game without Shaq in the middle. Easy MVP vote watching that series

    3rd chip? Shaq was 30-14 vs. Webber in that one. Down 2-3 in that series, Shaq goes for 41-17 then 35-13 and makes his free throws down the stretch of both games to win the WCF that year. Easy Shaq.

    In the end of those 12 series, you can point to a couple for Kobe (sweep vs. 7th seed Blazers is the clear one).

    It was a close two sure. But just because Bosh outplayed Lebron in the 2011 ECF doesn't mean he was not a second fiddle for the Heat to Lebron. Just because I'd argue Pau was the MVP of that series against Denver in the WCF doesn't mean Kobe wasn't the real MVP of the Lakers that year right?


    Just because Kobe HAS BECOME a bonafide #1 star who can carry his team to the finals and win rings, doesn't mean we get to rewrite history of what happened back then.

    The thing I think that tarnishes it is when people try and rewrite what we all saw and make up stories to make Shaq seem like a #2 there. That just didn't happen.

  10. #55
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    No not at all... He isnt near the level of James/Jordan but this doesnt drop him down at all

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by LakersEaglesLA View Post
    So you all decided to pick 3 bad games by Kobe in a 4 year playoff span that had well over 70 games WooWhoo!
    Well you said;

    " Go back and watch those Western Conference Playoffs rounds 1,2,and 3 Kobe was a killer. He bailed the Lakers out so many 4th quarters it's not even debatable.. "

    Go back and watch them, he wasn't a killer, he flat out sucked in a lot of those games and I only picked the three I knew he sucked in there will be more I don't remember.

    And he fell apart in most of the 4th quarters.

    The argument was that Kobe played as the second option, which he did until you can prove otherwise.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by xvgxhhjh View Post
    If we swap SHAQ ATTAQ with say, Dwight Howard, Yao Ming, or Manute Bol, could Kobe carry those Lakers squads to championships? Discuss.

    Is this assuming all other things are equal (Phil is Coach, Fox/Fish/Horry supporting staff, Kobe is pre-prime and other guy is prime)?

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goose17 View Post
    To be fair he did say "He bailed the Lakers out so many 4th quarters it's not even debatable.."

    So maybe he meant the 4th quarter in game 4 of the finals against Philly? Where Kobe shot exactly 0% from the floor and Shaq shot 55% totaling 10 points in that quarter.

    Or game 5 (last game of the series) when Shaq shot 100% in the fourth and Kobe managed to get 2 points in the entire quarter. It was actually Fisher that put the nail in the coffin during that game. With less than a minute left in the game he hit them with a dagger from beyond the 3pt line giving them a double digit lead.

    I'm just guessing. He'll have to let me know.
    Lmao

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ty22Mitchell View Post
    Is this assuming all other things are equal (Phil is Coach, Fox/Fish/Horry supporting staff, Kobe is pre-prime and other guy is prime)?
    Yes

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ty22Mitchell View Post
    Is this assuming all other things are equal (Phil is Coach, Fox/Fish/Horry supporting staff, Kobe is pre-prime and other guy is prime)?
    NO Way! None of these guys would require a double team from Drob and Duncan. Manute would get annihilated by Duncan or Robinson. Dwight or Yao would get outplayed by Duncan or Robinson. Where as Shaq outplayed Duncan or Robinson and required a double team from both. Webber even outplays Dwight and Manute every night and probably splits with yao. The answer is no way. Shaq is way more of a force. Yao in certain spots would be very tough don't get me wrong, but he's not running the floor and getting back on D like Shaq and he still isn't as much of a force as Shaq anywhere accept when he is away from the rim shooting jumpers, which Yao could do. They don't make it to the finals with any of those guys. They don't make it out of the first round with Manute. 2nd round exits with Yao or Dwight.
    D. Rob gives Hakeem 40/16/7/4
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_RP3SvZ4O8
    D. Rob gives Alonzo 52/14/7
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-NRWNX7Z7Y
    D. Rob gives the Pistons 34/10/10/10
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkpT0QdUDIY
    D. Rob gives the Clippers 71/14
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ck4KXAydlkE
    D. Rob gives Shaq 36/13/7/6
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XivZd3mRVw
    D. Rob gives Ewing 45/16
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8Ddm9WVzjA
    IF YOU DON"T KNOW, NOW YOU KNOW

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