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View Poll Results: Does Kobe winning rings as a second option to Shaq tarnish his legacy?

Voters
33. You may not vote on this poll
  • Without question.

    16 48.48%
  • Kobe didn't need Shaq, nor does it affect his legacy.

    17 51.52%
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Results 286 to 297 of 297
  1. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by BornReady View Post
    lol this guy has jerry west in the top 11, but no Big O. sick
    My list evolves over time.
    It really isn't concrete for me yet outside of my Top 7 (order aside).

    West aged better then Oscar and was more consistent.
    He also proved himself more in the playoffs (many more deep runs) which makes his playoff stats more impressive.
    Also the fact that Oscar peaked in the early 60's when the league was weaker and kinda slumped in the late 60's doesn't look good compared to West who shined brightest in the mid to late 60's.
    I won't say Oscar doesn't have a case against him but I currently don't think its wrong to rank West higher.
    The more I learn about West the more I am impressed by him.
    He was really, really good.

    Oh and I don't think its wrong to put Kobe in the Top 10 but saying he is definitely in ain't right.
    There are 10-12 guys with a legit case to be ranked higher.

  2. #287
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    Jerry West has one ring. Kobe is arguably the best Laker of all time with 5 rings. I don't even wanna argue with someone who puts Jerry over Kobe. simply disrespectful

  3. #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by BornReady View Post
    Jerry West has one ring. Kobe is arguably the best Laker of all time with 5 rings. I don't even wanna argue with someone who puts Jerry over Kobe. simply disrespectful
    So your entire Kobe > West argument is based on Rings?
    That is a pretty poor argument.

    West played his best years during the early to mid 60's when the Russell led Dynasty was in full effect.
    His best teammate during his early years was Baylor who really wasn't that good outside of the very early 60's where the league was weaker and everyone had inflated stats.
    He was an inefficient gunner and his only real unique strength was his excellent rebounding.
    Certainly Jerry didn't have enough support during those years to take out that young Boston dynasty.
    His own individual performances during those years were mostly fantastic.

    Then in the late 60's to early 70's he got stuck with an old broken down Wilt who cost him 2-3+ titles due to his pathetic performances in elimination series and by then Baylor was pretty washed up.
    The fact that he won the FMVP in 1969 despite his team losing is a testament to his greatness.

    Kobe career wise was simply put in a far better situation to win titles.
    Give Peak Shaq to Jerry in the late 60's/early 70's and he would have easily won a handful of Rings.
    Let Jerry play with Shaq/Gasol/Odom in the 00's and he'd have a few Rings at the very least imo.

    Now putting Rings (team accomplishment) aside for a moment I would mention that statistically West was better then Kobe in the playoffs when comparing their full Primes or even their Peak stretches and West was a vastly superior Finals performer.
    West was also the better defender and actually raised his performance level against the toughest defenses of his era (Boston) while Kobe has always generally struggled to some degree against the best defenses he has faced in our era (Detroit, Boston etc...).
    Longevity wise they are also practically a wash.

    Jerry West was an amazing player and there is nothing Kobe clearly has over him other then Rings which are for the most part clearly a product of him simply being gifted better circumstances.
    Stats/Finals performances and everything else are in Jerry's favor.

    I respect your opinion but you are trippin if you think West doesn't have a legit case against Kobe.
    Last edited by Andrew32; 04-15-2015 at 05:29 PM.

  4. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    Not at all. That's part of his legacy, being part of a laker team with one of the most dominant centers of all time. Its one hell of a legacy to be a part of, it was one hell of a 1-2 punch. That was an absolutely crazy squad right there, 15-1 in the playoffs, wow, just ridiculous. IMO underrated in terms of all time best teams

    I don't know if he woulda won with Howard, etc, I definitely don't think he woulda won 3 in a row. But at the same time I don't think Shaq woulda won 3 in a row if he had Tmac or VC, etc.

    It was a great team, even the role players were HUGE, people underestimate what a great job the FO did assembling that team.
    Here's a better question... does Shaq win with Nick Anderson? Not a star/superstar who is just not as solid as Kobe (Vince Carter), in fact, not a star at all.... just another guy like Horry, Fisher and Fox who is waiting to hit wide open shots that Shaq creates by drawing triple teams, and then plays defense.

    The spark of that team was Shaq drawing 3 defenders to the paint. When he passes to Fisher, Fox or Horry... 3 pointers splash. When he passes to Bryant, Kobe does the dribble drive one on one game, only to drive into a paint that is clogged from all the defenders that were guarding Shaq before he passed to Kobe.

  5. #290
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    I don't know, Shaq was the Finals MVP for his first three championships. Another interesting player from that era is Vince Carter, his stats are very worthy of Hall of Fame of consideration: https://tampatarheel.wordpress.com/2...hall-of-famer/

  6. #291
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  7. #292
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  8. #293
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  9. #294
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    Quote Originally Posted by BornReady View Post
    Jerry West has one ring. Kobe is arguably the best Laker of all time with 5 rings. I don't even wanna argue with someone who puts Jerry over Kobe. simply disrespectful
    So, you would take Kobe over West? Serious question.

  10. #295
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    Quote Originally Posted by lol, please View Post
    Let's be serious now, we can replace kobe with several players and the results are the same.
    Exactly. Shaq went to the Finals his 2nd year in the league with Penny. Won 3 Titles with Kobe in LAL, then went to Miami and won a title with Wade. Shaq had tremendous success literally everywhere he went with a good to great wing player. The idea that Shaq and those Lakers wouldn't have been successful if you put in a different wing player (like T-Mac or Vince) given that Shaq was successful everywhere with a good wing player seems a little misguided.

  11. #296
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    Kobe could had won rings with any of those, including Dwight Howard Orland Magic years. Kobe had to change his game when playing with Shaq for the betterment of the team. He was more of a facillitator, except in the 4th quarter and closing minutes of the game when he took over. Kobe could had averaged over 30 points per game if he wanted, MARK MY WORDS, he was a #1 option in those championship teams too.

    I think it's more of Shaq's legacy tarnished playing with Kobe Bryant. Shaq couldn't get over the hump pre Kobe, Shaq got swept out of the playoffs numerous times , if he was that dominant that shouldn't of happen. Shaq was a terrible FT shooter, and was timid and wanted to avoid the ball later in games. Kobe was the one who covered up all Shaq's weaknesses either being in fout trouble on the bench and late in games when he was a bad free throw shooter. Remember Kobe took a Gasol team back to back. Kobe only played with one all star in those years.

  12. #297
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Exactly. Shaq went to the Finals his 2nd year in the league with Penny. Won 3 Titles with Kobe in LAL, then went to Miami and won a title with Wade. Shaq had tremendous success literally everywhere he went with a good to great wing player. The idea that Shaq and those Lakers wouldn't have been successful if you put in a different wing player (like T-Mac or Vince) given that Shaq was successful everywhere with a good wing player seems a little misguided.
    . Shaq needed all time great closers in nba history to win rings. Shaq had plenty of talent with Orlando, but couldn't win a ring and bailed out on them. Shaq jumped to team to team to try to squeeze out more rings, he played with how many hall of famers in his career. That one year when Shaq won in 06 without Kobe, how many Hall of famers did he play with on that team, then compare that to Kobe's back to back years, when he has Gasol as his 2nd option Shaq was a great player don't get me wrong, but he definitely had a big weakness free throw shooting. You got to hit them down the stretch of games. Even Phil Jackson sat out shaq late in games because he was so awful. Shaq won you games, Kobe won him championships.
    Last edited by Balltime; 07-03-2017 at 10:40 PM.

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