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  1. #8686
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny Powders View Post
    The best part is, he claims he was run out of the Mets forum. A while back I ventured over to see if they could make amends with him and take their prodigal son back. Not one had a clue who he was



    You seriously can't make this **** up....

    Well mike can
    Haha!

  2. #8687
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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    This is why Im baffled as to why some of you still try to engage Sarah. Shes admitted shes not a fan of the Jays and completely ignores all context to put a negative spin on anything she can. Shes not here to talk Jays, shes here to **** on anything she can. Shes even finding a way to **** on our 2 blue chip prospects now.

    Its obvious she has nothing better to do with her time and wont be going away anytime soon. Its time for all of you to join me in making fun of the Mets.
    Who are our 2 blue chippers? What personally defines a blue chip prospect in your eyes?

  3. #8688
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Who are our 2 blue chippers? What personally defines a blue chip prospect in your eyes?
    Vlad and Bo are the blue chippers. A blue chip prospect is just a synonym for a sure thing to me. The can't miss all star types. For reference I wouldn't call Nate Pearson a blue chip prospect as of yet. As impressive as he is, he apparently still needs work on a quality 3rd pitch. It's a slow curve and it's been developing but from what I've read it's still not great. No starting pitcher will dominate for years without 3 pitches.
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Facts can be hypothetical.

  4. #8689
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    They've clearly been in the process.

    You're either trying to win or you aren't.
    Signing bounceback guys and spending absolutely no prospect capital to augment the product on the field isn't trying to win now.

    You guys said they signed morales instead of encarnacion so they could get gurille right? Also not trying to win now.
    Who said what now? Gurriel actually signed a week before they signed Morales back in November of 2016. If anything they signed him to help Gurriel along since they would be paying him big league money right away and Morales was a close friend of his family. Signing Morales had no effect on them getting Gurriel though. He was already there before they even offered him a deal.

    The only thing bad about the Morales signing was that he under performed and wasn't EE.....whom they tried to get first before moving on when he shot down their best offer..(which turned out to be the best of any of his offers, so if anyone screwed the pooch on that negotiation it was EE. If this was a place he really wanted to stay in, 20 Million per year for 4 years in your 30's as primarily a DH is one heck of a generous offer. Did you know big Papi never made more than 16M in any one season playing baseball? In 2016 he was making 16M. Then that off season the Jays offered EE 25% more than that contract for 4 years! Instead of being greedy, EE should have just smiled and signed on the dotted line so they could move on to the next order of business that year. Instead he decided to "test the market" and grass wasn't greener on the other side.

  5. #8690
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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    Vlad and Bo are the blue chippers. A blue chip prospect is just a synonym for a sure thing to me. The can't miss all star types. For reference I wouldn't call Nate Pearson a blue chip prospect as of yet. As impressive as he is, he apparently still needs work on a quality 3rd pitch. It's a slow curve and it's been developing but from what I've read it's still not great. No starting pitcher will dominate for years without 3 pitches.
    Ok we're on the same page here.
    I was concerned you were referring to groshans and pearson as blue chippers.

  6. #8691
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartron_44 View Post
    Who said what now? Gurriel actually signed a week before they signed Morales back in November of 2016. If anything they signed him to help Gurriel along since they would be paying him big league money right away and Morales was a close friend of his family. Signing Morales had no effect on them getting Gurriel though. He was already there before they even offered him a deal.

    The only thing bad about the Morales signing was that he under performed and wasn't EE.....whom they tried to get first before moving on when he shot down their best offer..(which turned out to be the best of any of his offers, so if anyone screwed the pooch on that negotiation it was EE. If this was a place he really wanted to stay in, 20 Million per year for 4 years in your 30's as primarily a DH is one heck of a generous offer. Did you know big Papi never made more than 16M in any one season playing baseball? In 2016 he was making 16M. Then that off season the Jays offered EE 25% more than that contract for 4 years! Instead of being greedy, EE should have just smiled and signed on the dotted line so they could move on to the next order of business that year. Instead he decided to "test the market" and grass wasn't greener on the other side.
    Many posters have brought up the signing of gurriel in defense of signing Morales, claiming it was a package deal.

    Thanks for looking into it. We can squash that as justification for signing Morales instead of enc.

    Seems the real issue was the idea that morales+pearce = encarnacion.

    Or if they didn't even believe that then the issue is they were already backing into a rebuild, but still failed to start the sell off at the right time.

  7. #8692
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny Powders View Post
    The best part is, he claims he was run out of the Mets forum. A while back I ventured over to see if they could make amends with him and take their prodigal son back. Not one had a clue who he was



    You seriously can't make this **** up....

    Well mike can
    no youre just not very comprehensive, there are several mets fans boards you just didnt go to the one im part of and yes im still a member. only now most of them agree with me because they dont buy the Wilpons Koolaid any more.....

  8. #8693
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiecballer View Post
    mike you gave up the pretext of being a jays fan so i think it's now fair to ask you to go away. if there are any mods left here ...
    tough on you. get used to it. im here because of the Jays fans who love baseball, and if it pisses you and RJ off all the better.

    and im not bashing your blue chippers Im just being real about them because some people care about being accurate. the blue Jays defensively are a bad team a very bad team. I get it you dont like hearing that but true is true and you wont get any better until you accurately assess your weaknesses

    you brought this on yourself JamieC so just live with it

  9. #8694
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Ok we're on the same page here.
    I was concerned you were referring to groshans and pearson as blue chippers.
    Groshans still has a long way to go. I find it hard to imagine me being comfortable calling any prospect a sure thing when they're that low. Everything I've read has been great though.

    Pearson has the potential to be a blue chipper. It's not out of the question but as of now, no.
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Facts can be hypothetical.

  10. #8695
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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    Groshans still has a long way to go. I find it hard to imagine me being comfortable calling any prospect a sure thing when they're that low. Everything I've read has been great though.

    Pearson has the potential to be a blue chipper. It's not out of the question but as of now, no.
    Tbh I don't even like giving pitchers the blue chip at all. So much can go wrong/right that they're hard to project.

  11. #8696
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    They've clearly been in the process.

    You're either trying to win or you aren't.
    Signing bounceback guys and spending absolutely no prospect capital to augment the product on the field isn't trying to win now.

    You guys said they signed morales instead of encarnacion so they could get gurille right? Also not trying to win now.
    Tanking teams look to cash in on assets. What you are describing is exactly what I said - letting Alex's all-in approach take it's natural course. The product had a very near-term best before date and they didnt throw good money after bad to try and delay the inevitable (any more than they very likely had to).

    Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  12. #8697
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartron_44 View Post
    Most of what MP is saying is actually true. We are pretty putrid on defense right now. Especially in the OF. Upgrades need to be made.

    However, when Gurriel is healthy he looks like he solves LF. Grichuk should be upgraded to someone who can get on base as well as hit the ball out of the yard, but the problem is Hernandez in CF. You swap him out for a plus defender and the OF defense instantly turns back around. So the outfield D is a fixable problem.

    I don't agree that Tellez is a bad defender at 1B. Nothing I have seen has made me think he can't play there at the big league level. Actually, I would say the opposite. He has looked like a solid defender...and the numbers back me up. His dWAR, Fld% and RF numbers are all excellent for 1B.

    The other gaping hole on D is 3B. I think Vladdy will lean down over the next couple years as his body matures and get better defensively. He had 5 of his 16 errors though in one 7 game road trip, but made just 2 errors the 20 games before that, and 2 errors in the 19 games since. These are just the ups and downs you deal with when you are playing a 20 year old at the hot corner on turf. His arm plays at 3B, so I think we are a ways off from moving him from that position just yet.


    They have almost completely overhauled the lineup ( that will be complete as soon as Smoak becomes a FA) and they have just barely started working on the rotation. Sure they have promoted a few guys, but Kay and Zeuch are the first two high draft picks they have promoted. Guys like Trenton, SRF and Waguespack are just guys lucky to have ever made a start in the big leagues. None of them really just pitched so well in the minors that they had to be promoted. We have just needed bodies to throw out there this year.

    I almost think this was as close to tanking as we were ever going to see. They just put a bunch of pitchers out there that they didn't think would win a lot of games. That way even if the young hitters did do well they still couldn't win games. Even Shoemaker was just a pleasant surprise. Not a guy anyone thought would come in and pitch like an ace after missing most of the previous 2 seasons. Their top 10 SP's in the depth chart heading into the season were:


    Stroman
    Sanchez
    Shoemaker - 3.5M and is still arbitration eligible next season.
    Borucki
    Thornton
    Buchholz - 3M on a 1 year deal
    Richard - 1.5M with 1 year left on his deal
    Jackson - I am not even sure what they paid Oakland for him..but another 1 yr type of deal
    SRF
    Waguespack


    Not exactly a group built to contend. More like a group meant to simply get them through the 2019 season while spending as little as possible. If you think about it, even the Grichuk extension (The only real contract handed out this off season) doesn't really kick in until next season. Sure they called it a 5 year $50M deal, but he was gonna get at least the 5M they are paying him this season in arb anyway. So they won't really start paying for that contract until next season.

    This year seems to have been spent acquiring more of that depth that this front office seems to love so much more than it was spent trying to win games. They acquired veterans on 1 year deals in the off season that they ended up being able to flip at the deadline for prospects (Hudson, Phelps, Sogard). They traded off Pillar, Stroman, Sanchez and Biagini before they needed to. Heck, they even took a 19 year old in rookie ball in the rule 5 draft and stashed him in the bullpen just to steal him away from KC using a loophole in his contract.

    All in all, starting from this off season they managed to acquire a lot of depth for the upper levels:

    Kay - MLB
    SWR - A Adv
    Fisher -MLB
    Luciano - MLB (but should be in A ball)
    Curtis Taylor - AA
    Edisson Gonzalez - A-
    Kyle Johnston - A Adv
    Thomas Hatch - AA
    Derek Law - MLB
    Juan De Paula - A


    combine that with the group they brought in last year:

    Trent Thornton -MLB
    Billy McKinney -MLB
    Brandon Drury -MLB
    Julian Merryweather -IL (.. has pitched as high as AAA)
    Santiago Espinal - AAA
    Bryan Baker - AAA
    Forrest Wall - AAA
    Chad Spanberger -AA
    Corey Copping - AAA
    Andrew Sopko - AAA
    Ronny Brito- A
    Demi Orimoloye - A Adv



    Not a lot of big names on that list, but that's what happens when you are trading away relievers, SP's that have struggled to stay on the field (Sanchez) and guys that haven't played all season (JD). Happ was a bit of a mirage as he was an "all-star" but not someone a team was going to pay a fortune for to lead them to the promise land in the playoffs. The biggest chip they dealt away (thanks to JD's injuries) was Stroman, and it looks like they got 2 solid young arms with upside for him. However, guys like Baker, Copping, Taylor and Merryweather could all conceivably join Law in the bullpen at some point next season too.


    So they now have a lineup that is almost set (they still need at least a upgrade in CF), a bullpen that should take care of itself if they don't get rid of Giles, a whack of prospects and a whack of dough. They are right when they say they are setup for future success. It is practically on a tee for them now. They are 3 or 4 solid moves away from being back in contention. They just have to be the right ones. They likely won't all come this off season, but hopefully they will make at least one big swing to get the ball rolling and the fans excited this year. Those big moves aren't likely going to be any of the few good free agents that are going to hit the open the market the next 2 off seasons, they are going to come via trades like they did under AA's regime. So it you know a shopping spree is coming on the trade market when you go for it, it's best to have a deep system before you go shopping.

    This fan base has been patient the last 3 years while they executed this so called plan. It's time for this front office to start looking like they know how to put a winning team on the field or GTFO. The kids are here, but they now have nothing around them but a solid closer.......which they would have also traded if his elbow didn't get wonky at the deadline and likely will trade after the season....and a bunch of guys who can't get on base.
    Thank you for an accurate analysis.

    they have alot of nice pieces but as you quite accurately point out

    "This fan base has been patient the last 3 years while they executed this so called plan. It's time for this front office to start looking like they know how to put a winning team on the field or GTFO. The kids are here, but they now have nothing around them but a solid closer.......which they would have also traded if his elbow didn't get wonky at the deadline and likely will trade after the season....and a bunch of guys who can't get on base"


    no young pitching staff can develop when their best efforts are constantly compromised by a suspect defense. literally the best thing they have done is stick with Danny Jansen despite his hitting woes because he is an excellent catcher and a tower of strength behind the plate. but more is needed they need as you mention, a quality centerfielder and a consistent Shortstop, until they do that they cant accurately assess the young starters.

    Biggio is fine at second and will be excellent as a leadoff hitter because he knows what hes doing, Gurriel is fine in left, but they literally have a black hole in center, and Tellez and Vlad Jr can hit but are not good fielders.. if it were up to me Id target Jackie Bradley Jr because he'd be a godsend in the outfield. and Didi Gregorius for short. on the chance that the Yankees decide to move Torres to short and give 2nd to Lemahieu

    adding those 2 players immediately solidifies this teams biggest weaknesses, and then at least the young pitchers have a fighting chance

  13. #8698
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikepelfrey View Post
    tough on you. get used to it. im here because of the Jays fans who love baseball, and if it pisses you and RJ off all the better.

    and im not bashing your blue chippers Im just being real about them because some people care about being accurate. the blue Jays defensively are a bad team a very bad team. I get it you dont like hearing that but true is true and you wont get any better until you accurately assess your weaknesses

    you brought this on yourself JamieC so just live with it
    Lol I literally only think of you as long as it took me to type that message on my phone so dont flatter yourself.

    The defense is poor - I have never suggested it wasnt btw.

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    Last edited by Jamiecballer; 09-11-2019 at 09:17 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  14. #8699
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikepelfrey View Post

    and a consistent Shortstop

    and Didi Gregorius for short. on the chance that the Yankees decide to move Torres to short and give 2nd to Lemahieu
    Bo Bichette is our everyday SS and he is until he proves otherwise. If bringing in some veteran backup is what you meant, then why the hell did we get rid of Freddy Galvis for nothing?


    The Lost Boys of PSD

  15. #8700
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    Team defense is something that definitely needs to improve drastically. Especially in the outfield.


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