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  1. #8776
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanton View Post
    He's definitely frustrating to watch but still put up good numbers on a garbage team.

    Has the tools to be a dominant reliever but can't put it together. Astros obviously saw something - same with Sanchez. They have a history of "fixing" pitchers, see on Verlander, Morton, Presley, Miley to name a few that got better in Houston.
    Are you talking about Sanchez or Bargnani? Because you're wrong about both.
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Facts can be hypothetical.

  2. #8777
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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    Are you talking about Sanchez or Bargnani? Because you're wrong about both.
    So the Astros are wrong?

  3. #8778
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanton View Post
    So the Astros are wrong?
    Please answer my question. Are you talking about Sanchez or Bargnani?

    I'm of the belief that the trade was crap for crap. There's nothing "elite" about Sanchez, Biagini or Fisher. They all suck. Now answer my question.
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Facts can be hypothetical.

  4. #8779
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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    Please answer my question. Are you talking about Sanchez or Bargnani?

    I'm of the belief that the trade was crap for crap. There's nothing "elite" about Sanchez, Biagini or Fisher. They all suck. Now answer my question.
    You answered it.

    Are the Astros wrong in believing in Sanchez and Biagini?

  5. #8780
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanton View Post
    You answered it.

    Are the Astros wrong in believing in Sanchez and Biagini?
    As I stated before I believe the trade was crap for crap. No team is wrong because they were both trying to turn their own trash into treasure. Neither will succeed because all the players in the deal sucked. You still didn't answer my question but honestly, I'm glad for you. You've learned how to deflect and backpedal after Kenny graciously guided your foot to your mouth only for you to jam it in.
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Facts can be hypothetical.

  6. #8781
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanton View Post
    elite arm not elite pitcher - big difference. It's why the Jays picked him up as a rule 5.

    As for Sanchez...it is Mark Shapiro himself that said it's very difficult and time consuming to develop pitchers - it takes years and yet he just gave 2 away. He used Carrasco as an example of how long it took until he broke out. At one point they were ready to move on from him when he broke out a few years ago.

    Sanchez wasn't going to get 12-15M? where did u get that from? He would have cost them practicality nothing...it is the exact kind of player they tend to target. cheap, controllable and with potential
    If Sanchez produces a 2016 like season in 2020, what do you think he'll get in free agency? Again I believe this to be very unlikely.

  7. #8782
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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    As I stated before I believe the trade was crap for crap. No team is wrong because they were both trying to turn their own trash into treasure. Neither will succeed because all the players in the deal sucked. You still didn't answer my question but honestly, I'm glad for you. You've learned how to deflect and backpedal after Kenny graciously guided your foot to your mouth only for you to jam it in.
    Why would I answer a question that you seemingly know the answer too? Kinda pointless.

    I didn't deflect. I was discussing Giles and it was Kenny that deflected after I showed him numerous examples of top closers traded for good outfielders including a perennial all star ss.

  8. #8783
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sasky05 View Post
    If Sanchez produces a 2016 like season in 2020, what do you think he'll get in free agency? Again I believe this to be very unlikely.
    I don't think it's unlikely at all he could turn into a reliable or a high leverage reliever. I mean there are so many variables especially with injuries. The Astros have a long history of developing pitchers - so he's in the right place. I posted some earlier.

  9. #8784
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanton View Post
    I don't think it's unlikely at all he could turn into a reliable or a high leverage reliever. I mean there are so many variables especially with injuries. The Astros have a long history of developing pitchers - so he's in the right place. I posted some earlier.
    When the Jays broached the reliever idea this season, Sanchez and Scott Boras were very strong in their response that they wouldn't consider him in a relief role. I get that and don't blame them for thinking that way at this point of Sanchez's career.

    I agree with you, if any team can get Sanchez righted, the Astro's are a good bet to do it. You didn't answer my question though, what do think Sanchez will get in free agency in 2021 if he puts up a 2016 like season next year?

  10. #8785
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanton View Post
    Why would I answer a question that you seemingly know the answer too? Kinda pointless.

    I didn't deflect. I was discussing Giles and it was Kenny that deflected after I showed him numerous examples of top closers traded for good outfielders including a perennial all star ss.
    Wait a second.... I didn't defelct. You said Biagini and Sanchez were elite arms and I took issue with that

  11. #8786
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sasky05 View Post
    When the Jays broached the reliever idea this season, Sanchez and Scott Boras were very strong in their response that they wouldn't consider him in a relief role. I get that and don't blame them for thinking that way at this point of Sanchez's career.

    I agree with you, if any team can get Sanchez righted, the Astro's are a good bet to do it. You didn't answer my question though, what do think Sanchez will get in free agency in 2021 if he puts up a 2016 like season next year?
    Your correct on the Boras thing he pushed back hard which is the reason, I think, Sanchez was moved. That came out of left field...and I meant to say reliable starter or high leverage reliever. I missed the word starter.

    He's going to miss most of 2020 recovering from shoulder so not a chance he puts up 2016 numbers. No idea what he gets in 2021 it totally depends on how he recovers. Will have to check on how other comparable players performed after similar surgery.
    Last edited by hanton; 09-18-2019 at 08:14 PM.

  12. #8787
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny Powders View Post
    Wait a second.... I didn't defelct. You said Biagini and Sanchez were elite arms and I took issue with that
    ok np

  13. #8788
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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    I canít believe you even gave a response to that. I guess Chris Colabello is an elite bat by hantonís standards too.
    He was for a year.

  14. #8789
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    He was for a year.
    He was but that was several years ago much like Sanchez. Thatís the point Iím trying to make. He literally had 1 great year and never replicated it since. If it was a year ago then maybe heíd bounce back but itís been 3 years. Calling anything ďeliteĒ about a player whoís sucked balls for 3 years is a bad call.

  15. #8790
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    It is a shame, but maybe the reason in the decline of his "stuff" was his shoulder. I mean, he was a guy who threw 97/98 as a reliever and was 95+ as a starter back in 2016 and 2017. This year (and last) he was more like 92-93 even on his good days. I always thought it was his finger, but maybe he was having shoulder issues too for a while and we just never heard about it... If he can get his velo back then he could have a bounce back year in Houston. However, I am hearing he may not even be ready for the start of 2020 so it isn't looking good on that front.

    Fisher has 70 grade speed (supposedly), 60 grade power and in the minors he was also very good at getting on base. When you have those kind of tools, stand 6'3 and swing from the left side....scouts are going to drool over you. Those are better tools than any outfielder in our system.

    To me the kid is just lacking confidence. He needs to step into the box with some swag like Bichette and then cause some havoc on the bases once he gets there. Spend the off season(s) working on bunting and hitting the ball to left field and he should be fine.

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